obama's muslim faith

Ditto wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree. Refer back to post #6. Same ol' person STARTING the derogatory comments and same ol' crap.

I stand by that. Most of the drivel posting trolls probably haven't read the constitution. You care to say ol' polabo or Pitts has any time this life?

CSID wrote:

<quoted text>I have. But people didn't like that I didn't call him a socialist Muslim antichrist while doing it, so they decided I was wrong and Obama got a pass. The thread died.

What thread was it? Show me 1 time when you called bullshit on Obama.

Dolly Chatell wrote:

<quoted text>
What thread was it? Show me 1 time when you called bullshit on Obama.

GOOD ONE!!! Can't wait to see his reply to this.

Wigwam wrote:

<quoted text>
Washingtom never claimed to be Christian.
The Treaty of Peace and Friendship ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1796 says "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Here's Madison's views on Christianity:
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Ethan Allen refused to let his wedding ceremony be completed until the minister doing the ceremony agreed to reference the God of Nature and not the Christian God.
Many of the FF's may have been Christian but it was in name only (Much like most of the Christians posting on The Natchitoches Forum here on Topix).

George Washington never claimed to be of a deist either. The principal Founding Fathers, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, were in fact deeply suspicious of the European pattern of governmental involvement in religion. They were deeply concerned about an involvement in religion because they saw government as corrupting religion. Ministers who were paid by the state and paid by the government didn't pay any attention to their parishes or their parishioners.

As for Washington's personal beliefs, I don't claim to know what is in any mans heart but please follow the link to his speech to the Delaware Chiefs pay attention to the 3rd paragraph of p 55
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-washi...
It is obvious that he valued a Christian education.

Some of the other founders;

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus![April 18, 1775]

How about your boy Madison, well he said a few other things among them;

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”[1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

"Christianity" not "Religion" was indefensible in the founding of our Nation.

should be "indispensable"

Smilin Bob wrote:

The majority of our founding fathers were deists anyways.

No they were not.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers...

Dolly Chatell wrote:

<quoted text>
What thread was it? Show me 1 time when you called bullshit on Obama.

I'm not treading backpages because you failed to read.

He Who Runs With Beer wrote:

<quoted text>
No they were not.
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers...

Yes they were.

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...

He Who Runs With Beer wrote:

<quoted text>
No they were not.
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers...

You need to read more. The FF weren't just a bunch of Christians. Also, many have said they used god metaphorically and had separate beliefs from that of the campaign trail. Funny how that is still true today.

I'll find links later, I'm about to leave the office. But the FF were deist in general, and against organized religion in most cases.

There are many FF quoted in the Atheist Quotable handbook.

Myth Buster wrote:

<quoted text>Yes they were.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...

We can go back and forth on links all day. Anyone want to cite an actually literary work? Maybe Kearns book Jefferson died for our Sins.

After precis of religion in the colonies circa 1770, the Anglican tradition in America, and deism, which was then at the height of its influence, he turns to Franklin and the first five presidents, inspecting their church attendance, observance of sacraments, and the terms they used to refer to the deity and religion. All six seem more deistic than orthodox; that is, they inclined against the Trinity and other supernatural concepts.

In demystifying what has been argument fodder for over 200 years, religion scholar Holmes (A Brief History of the Episcopal Church; A Nation Mourns) sorts through the carefully constructed (and ambiguous or contradictory) versions of the personal beliefs the United States's founding fathers presented to the outside world to present a sound case for what George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and others did or didn't do on Sundays. Holmes's subjects were acutely sensitive both to the dangers of state-sponsored religion as well as their reputations as leaders and went to what might seem like absurd lengths to cloak their religious leanings (Washington, for instance, rarely mentions church in his journals and, when he did attend, would leave service prior to communion), making Holmes's research and conclusions feats of deduction based on clues gleaned from letters, government documents, second- and third-hand accounts and educated speculation about motivations.

Just a summary from another book. The Religion of the FF. by Holmes.

The FF just paid lip service to the simpletons and their religion. It was part of holding the country together. The country with no religion, and not based on any religion, as signed treaties clearly state.

It is almost sad that the GOP can't find one real issue to talk about. ALMOST

WDRussell wrote:

It is almost sad that the GOP can't find one real issue to talk about. ALMOST

Yup. If they'd actually get real about most things instead of pandering, maybe they'd be taken seriously. Dems have their flaws, but the GOP has lost touch.

You can revise to your hearts content but it doesn't change the facts. Of the "Founding Fathers" who did one of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress

Of those individuals the majority (over 50%) were Episcopalian or Anglican followed by Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Quaker, Dutch Reformed/German Reformed, Lutheran, Catholic, Huguenot, Unitarian,
Methodist and even a Calvinist.

Now as much as you may wish it to be so it was not just a bunch of Deists who banded together, waged a successful revolution against overwhelming odds, and although some played a major role in our nations founding they were a small percentage of the men that took an oath "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence" to mutually pledge to each other their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor, and forged this Nation.

Don't tell me to read more, believe me that would be very hard to do. You need to read from the original source material as I continue to do. One more thing, whether or not men like Jefferson and Franklin believed in the divinity of Christ, they all firmly believed in God and in a strong Christian education.

P.S. PrezBO's a raghead.

Poppa_T wrote:

P.S. PrezBO's a raghead.

Just out of curiosity, what are you basing this statement on. I am also wondering what you think of Fho's statement from the "Wake up America" topic

Fho wrote:

It is time we quit beating around the bush and call this what it is and that is a HOLY WAR. We need to recognize the enemy for who he is and that would be raghead muslims. The federal government needs to round up all muslims and put them in interment camps NOW.

CSID wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to read more. The FF weren't just a bunch of Christians. Also, many have said they used god metaphorically and had separate beliefs from that of the campaign trail. Funny how that is still true today.
I'll find links later, I'm about to leave the office. But the FF were deist in general, and against organized religion in most cases.
There are many FF quoted in the Atheist Quotable handbook.

With all due respect, you are the one who needs to read more. Like so many topics you are wrong again. Oh, you can begin your reading here:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles...

CSID wrote:

<quoted text>I stand by that. Most of the drivel posting trolls probably haven't read the constitution. You care to say ol' polabo or Pitts has any time this life?

Shouldn't You Be At A Gay Parade Somewhere?

CSID wrote:

<quoted text>I'm not treading backpages because you failed to read.

Because you are full of shit and everybody sees it.

Shouldn't you be feeding your gerbils and patching that hole in your saddlebags?

Z-MONKEY wrote:

<quoted text>Just out of curiosity, what are you basing this statement on. I am also wondering what you think of Fho's statement from the "Wake up America" topic <quoted text>

I just said that to piss y'all off. However I can base the factuality of my statement on this;

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politic...

as for FHo's statement see this;

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Ameri...