County Says Guatay Congregation Can Party, Can't Pray

Since when does a (privately-owned) building need government approval to be used for religious meetings? Is someone trying to win an award for bureaucratic idiocy or something? It's people like this who make the "separation of church and state" crowd look bad.

Mountain hillbilly tweekers are abound in that city, all three blocks of it.

Hardcore,

Its a question of zoning. You cannot just open your home to fifty people on a nightly basis and conduct prayer services. The permit allows for a bar, not a Church. The Church must leave and leave quickly.

I personally am very interested in seeing if this location can indeed be turned into a bar. I live in the area and while I have nothing against the Fellowship I believe a bar would be a more suitable endeavor.

Ninja,

Sure there are people on edge in Guatay and its a community where lower income families can afford shelter. But there are no more tweekers there than any other place in SD county - and anyway you live in El Cajon? That community also has individuals fighting drug problems too.

this is whats wrong with america today, we can do anything but worship our creator. isn't this the reason for our revolution in the first place? and sure I can open my house to as many people as I want, as long as I am not disturbing anybody else with noise or parking issues, this is just wrong, I bet if it were a muslim group, it wouldn't even be a problem!!

Gerald wrote:

Hardcore,
Its a question of zoning. You cannot just open your home to fifty people on a nightly basis and conduct prayer services. The permit allows for a bar, not a Church. The Church must leave and leave quickly.
I personally am very interested in seeing if this location can indeed be turned into a bar. I live in the area and while I have nothing against the Fellowship I believe a bar would be a more suitable endeavor.
Ninja,
Sure there are people on edge in Guatay and its a community where lower income families can afford shelter. But there are no more tweekers there than any other place in SD county - and anyway you live in El Cajon? That community also has individuals fighting drug problems too.

Aint that the truth, and probably more tweekers here than anywhere.
But guatay is full of hillbilly trash, hell they still shoot each others dogs and chickens up there.
And it is a MAJOR drop zone for mexican drug trade thats why it is under survielance night and day.

Ninja, you are full of it and if you knew what you were talking about you wouln't be saying such things. I managed property for YEARS in El Cajon and that place is more a tweeker/gang/trash mine field than anywhere..

I grew up as "the hillbilly" you speak of and I tell you what I would rather be a hillbilly from the mountain than an arrogant ignorant flatlander that throws stones in a glass house's!

What the county in doing is not only illegal but against our very constitutional rights. Roger Hedgecock and channel 7 and the union have all reportd this, and yes I have FIRST hand info!

hugh, it shows me in Indiana..Odd..I actually live in east county SD..

One more thing, your stereotype of a hillbilly is laughable...Have you seen what you speak of?...No probably not..thats what I thought. Casting judgement without knowing the truth is not only ignorant but also in laymans terms "LAME"!

I applaud the county's action and hope that these Church people are not allowed back into the bar. I strongly believe this country was founded to free us from religion and its intolerance. Where these religious gangs set up shop, the citizens should be ready to move in and break them up using whatever legal means such as zoning is possible. I would much prefer a bar next to my residence than a group of fanatics plotting to harass others.

This Church group should be relieved they were not all arrested for this and that the pastor is the only one behind bars. Try just opening up a bar some where without a permit and see how long that lasts.

*sigh*, more ignorant people !..maybe you should visit the area before running your mouth..NONE of these people from that church have EVER harrassed ANYONE!. Stan is a good man and has only ever tied to help people in the area.!

If you don't like religion COOL I am happy for you. I am not religious either. But they have a right to like it as much as I have a right to not like it. Get over yourself!

Julie,

I am not certain of this congregation but to whatever extent they espouse fundamentalism to that extent the government and local citizen groups should keep a close watch on them. I know there are religious people who come onto my property to insult me and I use whatever means necessary to repel them. These may not be the people in this congregation but I think in general Homeland Security and such agencies should keep a close watch on religious groups of all kinds.

After all America was founded to free us from the religious blood baths of Europe. True patriots should be very concerned about religious groups in their vicinity and should keep close tabs on their activities.

Freedom of Religion didn't give anyone the right to censor/shut it down, just as it gives us the right to NOT worship or partake..

I agree with Peter we've got to be very careful with these religious groups. Ideally people would not be influenced by such extremism but if they are they need to be monitored. I know for a fact several pastors whove been arrested by HomeLand Security and are not in labor camps.

Just today a Christian was bragging about how his Church was sending missionaries to Tibet. I told him I found it disgusting and wanted to know his name. He told me and I immediately phoned Home Land Security.

People are welcome to practice Christianity or whatever "religion" they want. But when they start bothering, pestering and harassing other people, when they begin to push themselves on their neighbors, that's when they should all be lined up and sent to a labor concentration camp.

Of course our government won't enforce the will of the founding fathers and lets these fundamentalists do whatever they want. That;'s why they get a big surprise when they cross over onto my property to insult me.

Jenera,

I very much agree with you. I become totally unhinged at "missionaries" from whatever hate (oh sorry "religious") group is out there. I don't care if they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist, I generously provide all of them with a ferocious non stop knuckle sandwich entre which quickly strips them of teeth and gets them running off my property.

I have more than 12,000 teeth of religious fanatics lying across my front lawn.

Walt,

Couldn;t agree with you more. I hope this group of religious compulsives are kept away from the bar. Its unfathomable to me how a group of fundamentalists could usurp a bar business and set up a Church there. Christians and other religious obsessives can think and practice whatever they like on their own property. When they intrude onto mine I use whatever options are available to physically subdue them until the authorities arrive.

Just imagine how these nuts would act if you entered one of their Church's and started describing how they're going to be tortured for believing what they believe. They'd physically toss you out in no time. Yet they feel impunity crossing into your property to describe in detail how you'll burn because you don't agree with them. I don't toss them out, I tie them up and clean their clocks and then send for the police.

This is stupid we sould just be in church

I have been going to that church all of my life

Savvy,

That's no excuse for taking over another person's business and driving them away. If the Church wants to have a private meeting somewhere that is fine, but don't just invade a neighborhood bar and set up shop. Also why torment the legitimate owner by draping a "Join Us for Happy Hour" sign in the front.?

Hmm, lets get some facts straight here...I grew up in the area...YES the building was originally permitted for a bar..IT WAS NEVER A BAR!. It sat vacant for years until the church came in. So no, no one lost their business...

and I re-interate...THESE PEOPLE NEVER HARRASSED ANYONE, they never went door to door, NOTHING! This church met on Sundays and I think one day out of the week, at the CHURCH ONLY..

And if the hypocrsy would stop you might just get somewhere in life...

It's okay for you to say "oh good take it", but I bet if some law MADE you be religious you would be pissed too..My point, they have a right to like church and go JUST as anyone has the right to NOT like it and NOT go...Get over yourselves..

If you truley want to accept the Constitution, you have to accept it as a WHOLE, not pick and choose which ones you like and which ones you don't!

These people DO NOT deserve this..

and as a side comment, to the lady who called homeland security on someone for practicing their rights, remember Karma SUCKS!

Julie, Just because you are Christian is no reason to be disrespectful to people who believe in "karma" such as Buddhists and Hindus. What if someone told you "Jesus etc", wouldn;t you feel offended.

I think the point many are trying to make here is that Christians tend to be disrespectful of other peoples' rights and beliefs. To an extent you are correct and that is their right - but when they cross over into my property to disrespect my beliefs and rights that is when they are asking to be physically assaulted.

If these people stay away from me I will stay away from them. I live in the area and don't recall any of them coming onto my property, but I've seen signs posted at the post office and on the streets of Pine Valley that preach Christianity (and which I immediately remove). That's cutting it kind of close as far as I am concerned. One of the signs is even next to a school where impressionable children can see it.