A Difference Between Believers and Atheist

By most conservative estimates there are approximately 2500 documented deities (gods) that exist, with thousands more believed to exist that are not documented. For the sake of this thread we will concentrate on the number 2500.

Followers (or believers) of these 2500 documented gods have a common theme; they all believe that their god is the one and only true god. They discount and dismiss all other religions/gods/bibles as some mystical made up hocus-pocus, and proclaim that their religion/god is the only one that is true.

What does this mean for the typical Christian residing in Morristown TN? This means that out of 2500 gods you only believe in one, thus you think that 2499 of these gods are made up or false. Does that not make you an Atheist (non-believer) for 2499 gods?

So what is a difference between a Believer and an Atheist? An Atheist believes in one less god than the Believer. The Believer doesn’t believe in 2499 of these gods and an Atheist doesn’t believe in 2500 of these gods. The two are not so far apart when you put it in proper perspective.

I beg to differ....I believe in, put my faith and trust in the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the One and Only God not made by human hands or created in the minds of fallible humans. But I also believe there are countless false gods, as you pointed out, and do not deny their existence. What I don't do is put my eternal destiny in the hands of gods that are not gods at all because they were created by man. Be Blessed! <><

Actually you believe in God because that's what you were thought as a child. Do you really think you would have the same beliefs if you would have been born in the Middle East or in the Congo?

JohnFourteenSix wrote:

I beg to differ....I believe in, put my faith and trust in the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the One and Only God not made by human hands or created in the minds of fallible humans. But I also believe there are countless false gods, as you pointed out, and do not deny their existence. What I don't do is put my eternal destiny in the hands of gods that are not gods at all because they were created by man. Be Blessed! <><

Simple closed minds at work....

JohnFourteenSix wrote:

I beg to differ....I believe in, put my faith and trust in the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the One and Only God not made by human hands or created in the minds of fallible humans. But I also believe there are countless false gods, as you pointed out, and do not deny their existence. What I don't do is put my eternal destiny in the hands of gods that are not gods at all because they were created by man. Be Blessed! <><

John Fourteen Six, you say you beg to differ, but in fact you just agreed with me and validated my point - you stated that you put your faith and trust in the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the One and Only God...

As I stated in the original post on this thread, the common theme is each religion believes that their god is the one and only true god.

JohnFourteenSix wrote:

I beg to differ....I believe in, put my faith and trust in the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the One and Only God not made by human hands or created in the minds of fallible humans. But I also believe there are countless false gods, as you pointed out, and do not deny their existence. What I don't do is put my eternal destiny in the hands of gods that are not gods at all because they were created by man. Be Blessed! <><

I think you might have just proven his point.

Either way isnt it fair to allow others to believe as their own conscience guides them
and for them to respect your conscience?

Mark Rice wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you might have just proven his point.
Either way isnt it fair to allow others to believe as their own conscience guides them
and for them to respect your conscience?

Mark I totally agree that there should be a mutual respect. I also believe that an open and honest discussion about the topic can be beneficial as long as it doesn't result in mud slinging, in which no good will come of it. I'm trying to promote an open an honest discussion which in my view is one of the purposes of a forum board such as topix. I think if one digs deeply they can find more similarities and common ground among believers and atheist than most people believe, and this isn't just true for believers and atheist, but true for a lot of opposite view points. Perhaps we all can learn something in an open and honest discussion.

ThatGayGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
John Fourteen Six, you say you beg to differ, but in fact you just agreed with me and validated my point - you stated that you put your faith and trust in the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the One and Only God...
As I stated in the original post on this thread, the common theme is each religion believes that their god is the one and only true god.

I am so very glad we can have an open, respectful dialogue pertaining to a hot button subject. I went back and reread your original post and my response to see where I goofed. I'll use several days of insomnia as the excuse for lack of clarity. My disagreement is with the comment that each religion believes their god is the one and only true god. I have family members that are Buddhist and they make no such claim. Also, those family members have friends of many religions at their UU church and those friends don't claim exclusivity either. I submit that it's the fact Jesus Christ Himself said He is the One and Only way to God (John 14:6), and the lack of those claims in man-made religions, that causes people to hate Him and His followers so much. Be Blessed <><

Mark Rice wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you might have just proven his point.
Either way isnt it fair to allow others to believe as their own conscience guides them
and for them to respect your conscience?

Although I know Jesus Christ is God's One and Only Begotten Son (John 3:16)and He is the Only way to eternity with God the Father (John 14:6); it is not my job to convert anyone. I am not the Holy Spirit and He has the power to convict men/women/boys/girls of their sin and lead them to salvation through the blood Jesus Christ, not me.(John 16:7-11) I am called by God, through the words of Jesus Christ,(Mark 16:15) to tell everyone how they can choose eternal life with God in Heaven instead of choosing to spend eternity in Hell. Should I apologize for loving people that much? No, I shouldn't and I won't! Think about this comment I read from an atheist... "You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right about God, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain, yet you stand by and do nothing. Think about it. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right, then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about such subjects as loving and caring."
So the answer to your question is yes, I fully respect the right of each person to believe as they wish. However, I will not sit here and deny Christ as the Only way to God the Father and I will not keep that TRUTH to myself. To do so would make me the "uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish !?*?! " mentioned above. Be Blessed <><

JohnFourteenSix wrote:

<quoted text>I am so very glad we can have an open, respectful dialogue pertaining to a hot button subject. I went back and reread your original post and my response to see where I goofed. I'll use several days of insomnia as the excuse for lack of clarity. My disagreement is with the comment that each religion believes their god is the one and only true god. I have family members that are Buddhist and they make no such claim. Also, those family members have friends of many religions at their UU church and those friends don't claim exclusivity either. I submit that it's the fact Jesus Christ Himself said He is the One and Only way to God (John 14:6), and the lack of those claims in man-made religions, that causes people to hate Him and His followers so much. Be Blessed <><

John Fourteen Six, I'm glad that you agree to an open an honest discussion. You are correct in that not all religions believe that their god is the one and only true god. However, in the 2500 gods that we are discussing, the religion associated with them do believe that their god is the one and only true god. Other than using the bible, can you show me that it is a fact that Jesus is the one and only true god? I am completely open to looking at anything that is a fact. The reason that I say other than using the bible is because the bible itself was stolen form Pagan Gentile religions. Almost every character in the bible existed in other religions with very similar names. We can talk about that if you want and if you are truly open to looking at documented facts.

John Fourteen Six, here is a video that compares Horus and Jesus. It could be a starting point on an open discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch... .

Mark Rice wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you might have just proven his point.
Either way isnt it fair to allow others to believe as their own conscience guides them
and for them to respect your conscience?

Yes and no. Yes they should have their belief as long as it does good.

But there is a problem that all religion allows for certain people to use religion as a tool to do super nasty things (9/11).

Faith and religion is an enabler of normal religios people and extremist religious people.

ATHEIST DON'T BLOW THEMSELVES UP OR FLY PLANES IN BUILDINGS OR RUN AROUND SHOOTING PEOPLE.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

For believers you are only One Real True God away from ATHEISM.

ThatGayGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
John Fourteen Six, I'm glad that you agree to an open an honest discussion. You are correct in that not all religions believe that their god is the one and only true god. However, in the 2500 gods that we are discussing, the religion associated with them do believe that their god is the one and only true god. Other than using the bible, can you show me that it is a fact that Jesus is the one and only true god? I am completely open to looking at anything that is a fact. The reason that I say other than using the bible is because the bible itself was stolen form Pagan Gentile religions. Almost every character in the bible existed in other religions with very similar names. We can talk about that if you want and if you are truly open to looking at documented facts.

The ground rules you have proposed are based on your faith, trust and belief in certain documents or teachings as fact and your presupposition that the Bible and the Words of Christ are not fact. So, I will put it back in your court by asking you to do what you're asking of me. Without using anything but the Bible, can you show me that it is a fact Jesus Christ is not the One and Only Begotten Son of God? I am completely open to looking at anything that is fact. The reason I say to only use the Bible is because all false religions have stolen portions of the Biblical historical record. As you pointed out, even the very identity of real people in the Biblical record of history has been stolen by those false religions. We can talk about this if you want and you are truly open to looking at documented facts. Be Blessed <><

JohnFourteenSix wrote:

<quoted text>
The ground rules you have proposed are based on your faith, trust and belief in certain documents or teachings as fact and your presupposition that the Bible and the Words of Christ are not fact. So, I will put it back in your court by asking you to do what you're asking of me. Without using anything but the Bible, can you show me that it is a fact Jesus Christ is not the One and Only Begotten Son of God? I am completely open to looking at anything that is fact. The reason I say to only use the Bible is because all false religions have stolen portions of the Biblical historical record. As you pointed out, even the very identity of real people in the Biblical record of history has been stolen by those false religions. We can talk about this if you want and you are truly open to looking at documented facts. Be Blessed <><

you are a very smart person.God is with you.Praise the Lord

John Fourteen Six,

Okay, let’s look at when the bible was written and I will use various Christian based web sites:

http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php...

QUOTE:

8. When was the Bible written?
It was written over a period of some 1,500 years, from around 1450 B.C.(the time of Moses) to about 100 A.D.(following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).

http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/when-books-writt...

Too big to post here but it agrees with the above, so browse to the link and read for yourself.

http://www.biblica.com/bibles/about/3.php

QUOTE:

All this leads to the conclusion that the earliest writings in the Bible were set down around 1400 BC.

http://www.beginningcatholic.com/when-was-the...

A Catholic perspective. They say that the new testament was written from 50 A.D. to 100 A.D.

There are many more Christian based sites – you can do your own search – that agree upon the timeline. They all agree that the story of Jesus was written around 50 A.D.

Did you watch the video of Horus that I provided in a post above? This story was taken from Egyptian tablets that were written around 3000 B.C. There are many other gods that mirror this same story, they all have the birthday being December the 25th, born of a virgin, visited by wisemen, taught at the age of 30, performed miracles, killed and arose from the grave three days latter. They were written before your bible was written.

The same story about Jesus that is in your bible in which Christians agree this story was written around 50 A.D. was written by the Egyptians around 3000 B.C.

ThatGayGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Mark I totally agree that there should be a mutual respect. I also believe that an open and honest discussion about the topic can be beneficial as long as it doesn't result in mud slinging, in which no good will come of it. I'm trying to promote an open an honest discussion which in my view is one of the purposes of a forum board such as topix. I think if one digs deeply they can find more similarities and common ground among believers and atheist than most people believe, and this isn't just true for believers and atheist, but true for a lot of opposite view points. Perhaps we all can learn something in an open and honest discussion.

I think you know better than that. You dont win hearts and minds by antagonizing. Live a good honest fair life and others will see in you the qualities they desire in themselves.

Mark Rice wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you know better than that. You dont win hearts and minds by antagonizing. Live a good honest fair life and others will see in you the qualities they desire in themselves.

First, I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, I am merely stating my viewpoint and presenting what I view as evidence. I'm certainly not trying to win anyone's hearts or their minds. We each believe what we want. Again, isn't the purpose of topix to discuss things? Can we not learn from each other? As stated above, I think people are more alike than they are different if you take the time to stop and look at it. If that is wrong and me posting my viewpoint is wrong, then I guess I'm just wrong and I have a totally skewed ideal of what topix is all about. Maybe I should posting about who I think the hottest guy is Morristown is? However, I find no intellectual stimulation or interest in such topics. The complete purpose of this thread was to show that the difference between a believer and an atheist is that the atheist believes in one less god. If this offends or bothers you, then I'm sorry.

ThatGayGuy wrote:

John Fourteen Six,
Okay, let’s look at when the bible was written and I will use various Christian based web sites:
http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php...
QUOTE:
8. When was the Bible written?
It was written over a period of some 1,500 years, from around 1450 B.C.(the time of Moses) to about 100 A.D.(following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).
http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/when-books-writt...
Too big to post here but it agrees with the above, so browse to the link and read for yourself.
http://www.biblica.com/bibles/about/3.php
QUOTE:
All this leads to the conclusion that the earliest writings in the Bible were set down around 1400 BC.
http://www.beginningcatholic.com/when-was-the...
A Catholic perspective. They say that the new testament was written from 50 A.D. to 100 A.D.
There are many more Christian based sites – you can do your own search – that agree upon the timeline. They all agree that the story of Jesus was written around 50 A.D.
Did you watch the video of Horus that I provided in a post above? This story was taken from Egyptian tablets that were written around 3000 B.C. There are many other gods that mirror this same story, they all have the birthday being December the 25th, born of a virgin, visited by wisemen, taught at the age of 30, performed miracles, killed and arose from the grave three days latter. They were written before your bible was written.
The same story about Jesus that is in your bible in which Christians agree this story was written around 50 A.D. was written by the Egyptians around 3000 B.C.

Hey! I need you to clarify something for me please. Have you changed your mind about proving to me Jesus is not the Son of God and decided to focus our discussion on the historical account of how the Bible came in to existence? If not, I'll refer you to my previous post where we discussed the ground rules. If we are moving on to the 'history' discussion, great, I'll be glad to talk about history. It seems the older I get the more I become interested in all the history that I wanted nothing to do with when I was in school. Be Blessed <><

lulu wrote:

<quoted text>you are a very smart person.God is with you.Praise the Lord

Thank you very much for your kind words of encouragement! However, I have to say I totally disagree with you on the 'very smart person' comment! LOL! Again, many thanks my friend. Be Blessed <><

John Fourteen Six,

Your words from your post #13: "....and your presupposition that the Bible and the Words of Christ are not fact."

What I'm trying to show is that the story of Jesus in the King James Bible (since that is the bible most commonly used by Christians today) and many other stories such as Moses, were lifted directly from the Egyptian writings and re-purposed. The story of Jesus that is in the King James bible is not a new story, it is the same story that the Egyptians told. It was about Horus (the Sun god) and other gods. It is clear from the timeline in which the stories were written that the Egyptians wrote this story about 3000 years before the story of Jesus was wrote. Yes it is true that in the King James Version of the bible that it says Jesus is the Son of God. I am not denying that it says that, I agree with you. What I'm trying to show is this same story had already been written, not with Jesus Christ, but with Horus and other gods. They had the same thing: the birthday being December the 25th, born of a virgin, visited by wisemen, taught at the age of 30, performed miracles, killed and arose from the grave three days latter, and they celebrate the rebirth at Easter.

I don't know if you watched the video that I made reference to, but they do a good job of comparing the two, a lot better than I can post about it. The link was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I think you will understand what I'm talking about if you watch it.