Where can we get ethanol-free gas?

Exum Energy in New Smyrna Beach has it for boats and will deliver it. I don't know what their price is...

According to the science ethanol should only cost us 4-5% fuel economy

This is NOT EVEN CLOSE to to my real world numbers.

My 88 Cherokee 493,000 miles Regular Fuel economy (consistent within 1mpg for over 200,000 miles) 22-23mpg with 24-25mpg possible on pure highway driving.

88 Cherokee on ethanol. 14-19mpg why the big range? cheapy gas has 10-11% ethanol I get 14mpg Wawa and sunoco have 7% ethanol at those stations I get 18-19mpg

92 Ford Clubwagon. from 19mpg SOLID 2 years straight to 14mpg

96 Plymouth Voyager from 26-28mpg to 19-21mpg

My Other Cherokee 21mpg to 16mpg. Put this engine in my original cherokee 22mpg on the THREE YEAR OLD GAS IN THE TANK once I filled up with ethanol 18-19mpg same as the 485,000 mile engine I just replaced (this new engine only has 119k on it)

My Mom's 94 Lumina APV 24-25mpg (for her I was able to get 26mpg in it) now she averages 19-20 with 21 sometimes.

My dad's 94 Lumina APV used to get 25-26 now he gets 20-21 (he got the smallest loss in economy)

1998 Windstar 26mpg to 20mpg

On top of that 7 of our 8 vehicles needed new fuel pumps for the VERY FIRST TIME in hundreds of thousands of miles driven. 6 of the 8 need O2 sensors. all within 8 months of each other all now on ethanol.

On top of this I first noticed the problem in my 92 clubwagon.

Our DAILY work commute is 110miles round trip EVERY SINGLE WORK DAY not counting "other" driving. We have a very consisten regular never changes commute virtually immune to traffic (surface streets mostly like rt 206 etc..(19057 to 08215)

I get withing 1mpg consistent mpg readings over YEARS of driving with very little variation. In fact when I do get a variation that usually how I detect "problems" early. Very little variation and about a 1 to 1.5 mpg difference between summer and winter gas.

One day I got socked. I went from 19mpg in the van to 13mpg! I thought ok bad fill maybe or a fluke of some sort.

Next fill 13mpg again! I filled it myself this time to verify a good fill.

Third fill 13mpg again and then I noticed the Ethanol Sticker on the pump. I said whats that. He explained it was some green thing to add 10% ethanol to the gas.

I google it and think I wonder if thats the problem. SO I drive around till I find a sunoco with NO ethanol sticker. I ask him you adding ethanol? he says no. I fill up

next week I fillup there again 19mpg 4 days later 19mpg 5 days later 19mpg week later 13mpg. I notice the new ETHANOL sticker on the pump now.

I hunt around again find an exxon with no sticker claims no ethanol. I start filling up there back to 19mpg for 4 more tanks then 13mpg. I stick my head out the window and say hey when did you get ethanol (no sticker) he says last week (when I filled up last) how did you know? I reply because my fuel economy is in the gutter again.

Posts are limited to 400 chars so I had to split it in TWO here is part TWO

after that I can no longer find non ethanol gas in NJ or PA. from that day forward I have NEVER EVER gotten above 15mpg every again except one time. I drove up to Naram in kalamazoo Michigan. half way there no more ethanol. 19mpg again. Go Figure. next tank 20mpg (a first but also PURE highway) on the way home 19.5mpg when I fill up in pay its ethanol again my next measure 16mpg (half tank fill is my guess ie part ethnaol part pure gas) Next fill 13mpg.

at this point I find the ethanol measuring kits on ebay and get one and I start checking every place I get gas. Ethanol percent ranges from 6% to 11% with Wawa in PA and NJ and Sunoco on rt73 being the most consistent so far at 6-8%

so I only buy gas at those places. this brings me from 13mpg to 15mpg

Let me do some math for you as to why this PISSED me off so much.

at 19mpg if I ONLY drove the van I would spend roughly $4421 a year in gasoline at the current price of $2.10 Needless to say I drive the JEEP more (the minivan tranny gave out on me) which costs me $3500 a year to drive.

With ethanol each vehicle if driven exclusively now costs me just shy of $4700 for the jeep (MORE THAN THE VAN USED TO COST!) and the van is a whopping $5600 a year!

that means I am now spending just shy of $1200 MORE PER YEAR ($1166 for the jeep $1179 for the van) than I was 2 years ago.

$1200 MORE DOLLARS PER YER BECAUSE OF ETHANOL.

Yeah ethanol and the corn industry can suck my fat you get the idea.

Drives me mad. I now suffer by having to pay $1200 a year more for gasoline than I did before. I am not buying MORE foreign oil than I was before.

What makes me even MORE angry is when people say BUY A NEW CAR. YEAH you give me the $12,000 for a BARE BONES brand new car and the Extra $5000 in mandatory full coverage insurance and I will gladly buy a new car.

I would never save a penny even if I had the $17,000 to pay the bill 100% up front as I WONT BE DRIVING GASOLINE POWERED CARS in 14 years (electric or nothing) and 14 years is how long the RETURN of normal gas mileage would take to break even on the cost.

They think I should take my perfectly good 100% reliable ULTRA cheap to maintain cars and replace them NOT because anything is wrong with the cars but our politicians and corn industry want to shove ETHANOL DOWN MY THROAT against my will.

Grrr that makes me mad.

400 Char limit here is part 1

According to the science ethanol should only cost us 4-5% fuel economy

This is NOT EVEN CLOSE to to my real world numbers.

My 88 Cherokee 493,000 miles Regular Fuel economy (consistent within 1mpg for over 200,000 miles) 22-23mpg with 24-25mpg possible on pure highway driving.

88 Cherokee on ethanol. 14-19mpg why the big range? cheapy gas has 10-11% ethanol I get 14mpg Wawa and sunoco have 7% ethanol at those stations I get 18-19mpg

92 Ford Clubwagon. from 19mpg SOLID 2 years straight to 14mpg

96 Plymouth Voyager from 26-28mpg to 19-21mpg

My Other Cherokee 21mpg to 16mpg. Put this engine in my original cherokee 22mpg on the THREE YEAR OLD GAS IN THE TANK once I filled up with ethanol 18-19mpg same as the 485,000 mile engine I just replaced (this new engine only has 119k on it)

My Mom's 94 Lumina APV 24-25mpg (for her I was able to get 26mpg in it) now she averages 19-20 with 21 sometimes.

My dad's 94 Lumina APV used to get 25-26 now he gets 20-21 (he got the smallest loss in economy)

1998 Windstar 26mpg to 20mpg

On top of that 7 of our 8 vehicles needed new fuel pumps for the VERY FIRST TIME in hundreds of thousands of miles driven. 6 of the 8 need O2 sensors. all within 8 months of each other all now on ethanol.

On top of this I first noticed the problem in my 92 clubwagon.

Our DAILY work commute is 110miles round trip EVERY SINGLE WORK DAY not counting "other" driving. We have a very consisten regular never changes commute virtually immune to traffic (surface streets mostly like rt 206 etc..(19057 to 08215)

I get withing 1mpg consistent mpg readings over YEARS of driving with very little variation. In fact when I do get a variation that usually how I detect "problems" early. Very little variation and about a 1 to 1.5 mpg difference between summer and winter gas.

One day I got socked. I went from 19mpg in the van to 13mpg! I thought ok bad fill maybe or a fluke of some sort.

Next fill 13mpg again! I filled it myself this time to verify a good fill.

Third fill 13mpg again and then I noticed the Ethanol Sticker on the pump. I said whats that. He explained it was some green thing to add 10% ethanol to the gas.

I google it and think I wonder if thats the problem. SO I drive around till I find a sunoco with NO ethanol sticker. I ask him you adding ethanol? he says no. I fill up

next week I fillup there again 19mpg 4 days later 19mpg 5 days later 19mpg week later 13mpg. I notice the new ETHANOL sticker on the pump now.

I hunt around again find an exxon with no sticker claims no ethanol. I start filling up there back to 19mpg for 4 more tanks then 13mpg. I stick my head out the window and say hey when did you get ethanol (no sticker) he says last week (when I filled up last) how did you know? I reply because my fuel economy is in the gutter again.

l sands wrote:

STEVE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO YOUR OWN LEG
WORK IF YOU WANT TO FIND DEALERS WHO DONT CARRY ETHANOL YET.AND I AM ALSO GETTING POOR MILEAGE FROM ETHANOL I WENT FROM 26MILES PER GALLON DOWN TO 20. THE FEDERAL GOV. SAYS THAT IT WILL STOP THE AMOUNT OF OIL FROM THE MIDDLE EAST INSTEAD IT WILL INCRESS OUR USEAGE. WE NEED THE NEWS PAPERS TO LET THE GOV. KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT THE ANSWER.

Kwik fill does not have ethanol added

Hello happy consumers,
I have done a real world test and my Suburban got 15 MPG with 10% ethanol over five fillups, and 17 MPG with 100% gas over five fillups. My methods used a calculator, but by no means highly scientific. The result is a real world test and repeatable results. The gasoline was average $.15 higher, but after the improvement in mileage my SAVINGS were $1.40 per 10 gallons consumed. Also during the 10% testing my check engine light came on, and was diagnosed as all oxygen sensors must be replaced (est $440). I did nothing of the sort. After switching to the 100% gasoline, during the second tank the light went out. An amazing thing. I run a business where we use late model fuel injected trucks for Field Services. I have replaced six fuel pumps in 2009. We have swapped to 100% on these and have not had any problems with the ones we had repaired, or the ones that had not experienced any problems. Enough drama and angry responses. I checked it out and it's bad stuff as far as I am concerned. My weedeaters, lawn mower, ATVs, and jetskis were not performing well and extremely hard to start. By switching to this 100% fuel after a few tanks they are back to running strong. I am a believer in 100% gasoline!

KMB wrote:

<quoted text>
Octane rating is the resistance to spontaneous combustion, detonation, in a spark ignited engine. If one were to measure it in a relative fashion, water has a higher octane rating than gasoline. Want it in your fuel?
A better indicator of the effectiveness of a fuel is the specific energy. Ethanol has about 63 - 69% of the specific energy of gasoline.
Also, it takes more than a gallon of diesel to make a gallon of ethanol from corn. In what way are we benefiting?

True water does have a higher octane rating. It in fact has an infinite octane rating. A major problem that I see is that many of the vehicles on the road today are not made to handle ethanol at all. Most vehicles made in Detro... I mean in Japan now a days are made to run best on certain octane gasolines. Ethanol does raise the octane rating of a gasoline, however, the vehicles are not designed or tuned to operate at higher octane levels. Unfortunately for ethanol, this does not help their cause. Taking higher octanes used in nascar races and placing it in your Chevy Blazer does not by default increase your horsepower and efficiency on the motor because you do not have a high performance engine tuned and designed for running that specific type of fuel.

Research supports the 63% rating that he is giving the energy in ethanol compared to gasoline. Of course, you typically pay less for ethanol in higher volumes at the pumps (E-85 for example often runs $.50 cheaper at the pump at many stations). What I wonder is why am I paying the same price per gallon for a fuel that has 10% ethanol in its composition? Seems a bit fishy to me.

I think that Ethanol is getting a bum rap from a lot of sides. I myself am not opposed to using it to create American jobs, something that not a single person has mentioned yet. Forcing it on people is garbage though. I would bet that if you bought a flex fuel vehicle as a choice, instead of being forced to put ethanol in vehicles NOT designed to use it, many of the issues with hoses and gaskets and O2 sensors and such go away. The gas mileage is still an issue. It does not have the same energy as a gallon of gasoline. Putting ethanol in a standard F150 truck will net you fewer GPM than putting it in a flex fuel F150 though, softening the blow. Point being do not put gasoline in a milk jug, the milk jug is not designed for that. Don't put ethanol in a 68 Camaro. It is not designed for that.

Final thought: I have seen ZERO evidence supporting the fact that it takes more than a gallon of diesel fuel to make a gallon of ethanol. In fact, the industry goes so far as to burn parts not used in the process as a source of fuel for the process itself. Look up gasification if you doubt it, many industries use similar technologies. Diesel is not even used in ethanol plant designs and has not been for some time. Couple that with the fact that the byproduct not consumed in the ethanol process, still contains the protiens ranchers want to fatten their livestock and is returned to them as feed. Over 50% of what is used in the making of ethanol is returned back as feedstock for livestock in the US. So while I am a supporter of ethanol, I do not feel it should be crammed down everyones throats as seems to be the trend. If used in the proper vehicle though, you can support home grown energy made by American workers and farmers... the backbone of this country for over a century. Keep America working!!! God Bless America!!!

"Don't put ethanol in a 68 Camaro. It is not designed for that. "

Would love to but sadly PA and NJ government has arranged is to ALL GAS STATIONS MUST USE E10. Grrr really sucks.

as for jobs. what is the point of creating jobs if the money you LOSE is greater than the net INCREASE in money. E10 is costing me $1248 a year roughly and I am just ONE PERSON and this does not include the 5 O2 Sensors and 7 Fuel Pumps I have had to replace.

I have cars with just shy of half a million miles on them and never ONCE had to replace a fuel pump. in my pops nearly 60 years he also has NEVER ONCE replaced a fuel pump. UNTIL ETHANOL.

have you SEEN the prices of fuel pumps? they are some very expensive little critters.

the problem with ethanol is FRESH WATER one of the few things even more precious than gasoline.

Ethanol productions uses UNGODLY quantities of water.

the plant they want to build in florida put in its water request. that one plant will use more water THAN THE ENTIRE CITY OF ORLANDO !!

Ethanol is ONLY GOOD for TWO groups of people. Politicians and Corn Farmers. its a NIGHTMARE for everyone else.

the other problem is its hard for people to SEE this problem. you see most people drive about 1/4 the amount of miles people like ME drive.

I am at the point where I am replacing a fuel pump YEARLY. for the average person this might be 3 or 4 years they might not even HAVE the car long enough for it to fail (average person drives 11,000miles a year I drive over 40,000 miles a year)

so people never make the CONNECTION to that insanely expensive fuel pump repair to the damned FUEL they are pumping with it.

but the pumps I just put into my Clubwagon and my Cherokee 4-5 months later are ALREADY AUDIBLE AGAIN ie making NOISE. not much but again until this I HAVE NEVER HEARD my fuel pumps audibly wine no matter how softly.

if it makes noise that is audible SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH IT.

This sucks. Big time.

the OCTANE is not the problem. they just use lower octane gasoline and let the 10% ethanol "boost" the octane. the problem is the damned ethanol and the water is brings along with it.

You have very valid points Chris. I know that the process uses a lot of water. I understand the wear and tear on older cars not designed for ethanol. I feel your pain. Like I said, I think the fact that the state governments have forced this down the throats of my fellow Americans is disheartening. Another symptom of a beaurocratic big government society we are forced to live in right now.

In defense of ethanol, there are alternatives that are ethanol friendly. Flex fuel cars will not have near the added expense that you are experiencing. I know that does not fix your immediate dilemma.:-( Gasoline should still be offered for those driving older cars. I wish it were easier for you to get your hands on it. It would be nice if we actually got a reduced rate for the gasoline that is laced with ethanol too. This and the flex fuel vehicle would very likely offset much of the costs your incurring right now.

This country needs jobs now more than ever though. Ethanol should be a choice not a mandate.

I put Texaco premium with 10% ethanol in my car and it caused my engine to nearly stall on I95 and I was almost flattened by 2 eighteen wheelers. What really is bad is the fact that not all stations put the stickers on the fuel pumps. So you don't know where to get ethanol free gas. Oh and by the way, last Wednesday, my car nearly stalled in on 17 bypass in Myrtle Beach and I almost caused an accident. I'm on the verge of tears because I'm scared to drive my car because I can't find any decent gas.

I also am fed up with ethanol. It costs between $4.00 to $5.00 to make ethanol and we are even subsidizing the practice. Our farmers need to be growing food. Then maybe e-coli and such problems would be minimalized.And about the statement on healthcare, typically the people who cry the loudest against it are not concerned with people not getting treated to stay alive. Perhaps they have stock in these insurance companies. Those have been soaring.A 4 week waiting period is better than a denial any day of the week.Maybe the republicans don't want the change because it wasn't them that started it.They sat back doing nothing for 8 years denying there was a problem, therefor nothing to fix. Look how that worked out.

FYI In Knoxville, TN the Aztec gas station on Merchants Dr. at Central Ave Pike just posted a sign saying that they are selling 100% gas. They sell Citgo gas.

I care about people getting health care.

I FIGHT AGAINST universal health care.

I do NOT use health care from the government
I DO NOT have health insurance (as if I could afford it)

I PRAY I don't get sick because I can not afford to see a doctor and WILL NOT apply such a debt to my family unless I am DYING.

you keep saying its better than this better than that. How interesting that kind of BS comment is. they get you use to the SHIT we are fed now so you will think OH this is better than what we have now.

I STRAIGHT UP REFUSE TO MAKE THAT COMPARISON.

our CURRENT health care system is BROKEN beyond repair so COMPARING the "new" idea for an even more broken health care system to the current already broken system is assinine at best.

FIX IT. don't make it worse. we DO NOT NEED HEALTH CARE.

Health Care is NOT EXPENSIVE. Health care is artificially expensive.

one classic example I heat is Cat Scans. why are they so expensive? well the machines cost millions they have to replace that cost.

the cheapeast machine is $140,000 the MOST EXPENSIVE MODEL a GE is $300,000

at the $3500 to $4000 A POP they charge for those scans they machine is paid for in less than a week. 85 patients.

so again WHY does it cost so much for one? BECAUSE THEY CAN.

that is the core problem here. I should not need health insurance to see a doctor. I should not need health insurance to see a dentist.

You should not need health insurance FOR ANYTHING but extreme cases.

if this was how it worked. HOW IT USED TO WORK. health insurance would be DIRT CHEAP because you would only need and only USE IT when something EXTREME happened to you.

they have manipulated things so you need HEALTH INSURANCE if you so much as fraking sneeze.

so OFF COURSE the cost is going to sky rocket. add in all those middle men and its even higher.

My father LOST his health insurance duh to not being able to pay the $980 a month raping they wanted any longer. It was the health insurance or the mortgage.

its called BS folks. Big Pharma WANTS universal health care because they instead of insane health insurance bills they get unlimited TAX bills to EVERYONE by the point of a gun including people like me who REFUSE to give them my money.(I could not afford to anyway but you get the point)

well now they are coming to TAKE My money at gun point by force whether I want to or not.

Yeah. what a great idea.

Just a small note update.

I am not against Universal Health Care. I am against UNITED STATES Universale health care (and most universal health care as currently practiced)

the problem is its socialism. socialism is NOT the issue. In fact socialism is probably largely the ideal format to run things.

but socialism CAN NOT and I mean simply CAN NOT function in an environment of GREED. the two concepts are FUNDIMENTALLY INCOMPATIBLE with each other.

THIS is the problem. they get socialized health care but get to KEEP their broken greed based system.

WHY would you think this is a good idea? the medicare part D reform should enlighten you to why this is a bad idea. Go watch the 60 minutes segment called "Under the Influence" for an eye opening experience as to why universal health care BY ITS VERY DESIGN can not function in this country as its currently structured.

Ain't this a kick in the pants!
I stopped at a no-name independant gas station/convenience store and saw they had a huge banner "WE DONT SELL ETHANOL GAS"
They also sold it 10 cents per gallon less compared to the gas stations around that all sold that putrid corn mix.
My engine immediately stopped the valve chatter it had, my engine reverted to it's original power/performance level it once had with this untainted fuel and my gas mileage has improved by at least 20%.
I will push my car past any gas station that uses Ethanol to get to one that does not have Ethanol in the future.

prescriptions in canada are "cheaper" because EVERYONE pays for your healthcare and prescriptions there, not just you and your insurance company, so you pay for the next persons vice versa.....higher taxes

NO prescriptions in canada are cheaper before they are supported on the backs of the "raping" we get here in the US.

No Expensive US healthcare would mean no Cheap Canada Health Care.