Rendell plan isn't fair to the private universities

The new teacher certification plan put together by the Rendellites is also very unfavorable to private colleges and universities and is a farce.

The United States Congress in an effort to bring relief to families of college age children passed a law stating no child shall be denied a college education for reasons of poverty. I think in the form of need based scholarships. It was a message of tremendous relief for everyone including university administrations. Unfortunately the schools saw it as an opportunity to increase enrollment and increase school tuitions. No rider of any sort cautioned schools to refrain from using the federal education loans as a means to get wealthy.

Our three children went through private schools and in all cases the tuition over four years had increased by thirty percent or more. No problem as the education loans increased in proportion to the school year but the schools made sure to increase tuition as well. Meanwhile the recipients of the education loans graduated with education debts never before seen.

The Reverend lost me when he said that private colleges like DeSales keep their tuitions low. DeSales is currently 25k tuition only. With room and board your talking 40k. While it is the lowest of the comparable schools in the area,(Moravian, Muhlenburg)how is that affordable for the average student? Granted, many students get financial aid in the form of grants for these types of schools, but honestly, I don't see the financial benefit over a PSSHE school like East Stroudsburg or Kutztown. I say this from experience, having attended both private and public schools.

For good or bad my decission on what college to attend next year had to be driven by debt load rather than what college I thought had the best program for the major I wanted, which is not the wat it should be. After four years of education and deciding on having a debt load of about $45000 as a commuter at Kutztown compared to $10000 at DeSales, the answer was not a difficult one to make.

in debt till I die wrote:

For good or bad my decission on what college to attend next year had to be driven by debt load rather than what college I thought had the best program for the major I wanted, which is not the wat it should be. After four years of education and deciding on having a debt load of about $45000 as a commuter at Kutztown compared to $10000 at DeSales, the answer was not a difficult one to make.

I have been to both and can tell you there is little difference in curriculum or resume impact on potential employers. I am a KU grad who works with many others who have attended private universities and I make an equal salary. You will appreciate this decision when you graduate and eventually pay off your loans while your co-workers still have years to go on theirs.

When are WE going to require that people who want extra food(food stamps),more drug money(food stamps),education(more taxes),cheaper rides(taxes to pay for mass transit), etc. go out and work for it? I get sick and tired of everybody with their hands out rather than working for it. GRANTED, there are people that need help and I say help them, as long as they are here legally, and tell the rest to get a job or starve. I give 1/3 of my income to charities and I DESPISE letting fxxxing politicians decide who gets my money so that they can stay in power. Tell fat eddie and the rest to stop giving OUR money away.

Golden Bear wrote:

<quoted text> I have been to both and can tell you there is little difference in curriculum or resume impact on potential employers. I am a KU grad who works with many others who have attended private universities and I make an equal salary. You will appreciate this decision when you graduate and eventually pay off your loans while your co-workers still have years to go on theirs.

I am also a KU grad, and I am working as a software engineer right alongside Lehigh graduates. The only difference is that I have paid off my student loans already.

I am also a DeSales graduate (for my Master's in Informaton Systems), and I also agree that the quality of education is very similar. I did find the quality of my fellow students to be a bit higher at DeSales, but they aren't the ones teaching.

Right now, DeSales is pushing it's adult education and Master's programs. This is a good niche for them. Many of the enrolees in these programs get employer tuition assistance and/or are working professionals.

There is already a system that gives those of lesser means an opportunity to go to college on the government. It's called the GI bill, and it badly needs to be updated.

I feel that the government should only pay for your schooling if you are going to commit yourself to govnernment service, like the military, teaching in urban schools, practicing medicine in an area of need, etc. And, all these programs already exist! As for loans, I don't see how you can allow any student to graduate with over 100k in loan debt. If you have legitimate need, for god sakes, go to a public school.

While I respect Father O'Connor greatly, he is distorting his statistics.

Private colleges have higher graduation rates because the demographics of the student bodies are different. Priviate college students have rich parents paying the bill or hefty financial aid packages paying the bill. You're either rich and spoiled, or poor and raised by the government.

The public institutions have student bodies from working class families who can't afford $50K tuition and fees. Therefore, they have greater number of commuter and part time students who pay their own way and have to juggle school, job, and family responsibilites.

mean machine wrote:

...Private colleges have higher graduation rates because the demographics of the student bodies are different...

You absolutely nailed it. Having been a student at LCCC and then KU for my Bachelor's and DeSales for my Master's, I have seen the diverse nature of the student bodies of these three institutions.

I couldn't agree with you more. When DeSales and Lehigh lower their SAT requirements (and their tuition) to the levels of public schools, I am very confident one will see a drop in graduation rates.

Private means just that.
they receive no state support, nor should they.

I attended a public university (Bloomsburg) and then worked at a private one (Penn). My brother attended Bucknell and then did his graduate work at Pitt. There's no difference a few years into a career between attending a private university vs. attended a public one - except for the 80K in debt one accrues by attending a private school. Me? I graduated debt-free and bought a house 9 months later.

That being said, why should we spend public money to fund private schools? This is exactly like the vouchers argument - if you want access to public funds, use public facilities. If you want the quality - perceived or otherwise - of private facilities, then use them. But don't expect public funding to support your choice.

The concept of "commonwealth" seems to have escaped our public discourse, and I'm not quite sure why. Our public schools are part of that "commonwealth" and should be supported as such. Private schools are not part of that "commonwealth," and therefore shouldn't be funded by it.

Pretty simple, really, even for a lowly public university grad like me.

In addition, maybe I'd take the good Rev. Bernard F. O'Connor a little more seriously if he offered to share the massive private school endowments with the public schools in return for some of our taxpayer money.

Until that offer's on the table from him, the Rev's just whining in my opinion.

I hate to point this out, but isn't there some principle about the separation of church and state? Is he tgrying to say you get a better education in a private school? I paid tuition to a private school, and me tell you it was no bargain. Same education, just more expensive.

Your assertion contradicts the Father's statement in his article about the similar income levels of families of students attending public vs. independent colleges.

Do you have data to back up your statement, or is this just your belief?

Perhaps even more important, what is the net cost (costs after financial aid) of public vs. independent colleges in relation to family income?

My own experience is that private schools use their high list tuition rates to really sock it to wealthy families and foreign students, while lower income families get a lot of financial aid that brings the net cost in line with the public schools (or better yet, qualified students at certain places like Penn can attend tuition-free if family income is below $100K). In that way, the wealthy kids and foreigners essentially subsidize the lower income students. This doesn't happen as much at public colleges because the list tuition is lower - so even the wealthy students are subsidized by the taxpayer.

mean machine wrote:

While I respect Father O'Connor greatly, he is distorting his statistics.
Private colleges have higher graduation rates because the demographics of the student bodies are different. Priviate college students have rich parents paying the bill or hefty financial aid packages paying the bill. You're either rich and spoiled, or poor and raised by the government.
The public institutions have student bodies from working class families who can't afford $50K tuition and fees. Therefore, they have greater number of commuter and part time students who pay their own way and have to juggle school, job, and family responsibilites.

Public schools are increasingly building endowments too. The IRS strictly regulates what any college can do with their endowment, generally only about 5% of its value can be used in any given year. Since endowment values have crashed with the stock market, the endowment provides even less available cash recently. That's why you see private colleges freezing salaries and hiring, having layoffs, and other cost cutting measures. Let me see, have the public schools managed our taxpayer dollars in the same way? I haven't heard of such prudent measures being announced at public schools...

Americanitis wrote:

In addition, maybe I'd take the good Rev. Bernard F. O'Connor a little more seriously if he offered to share the massive private school endowments with the public schools in return for some of our taxpayer money.
Until that offer's on the table from him, the Rev's just whining in my opinion.

I went to a public school and de sales....I personally thought the public education was 500 times better. After desales I wished I had never left public education. So give the money to the public schools they give out a better product and are much more fair. Teachers @ de sales get away with doing whatever the hell they want its sad.

yeah wrote:

I went to a public school and de sales....I personally thought the public education was 500 times better. After desales I wished I had never left public education. So give the money to the public schools they give out a better product and are much more fair. Teachers @ de sales get away with doing whatever the hell they want its sad.

As a KU graduate, I agree that public schools should get the lion's share of public monies as long as they continue to act like public sschools. I fear that KU is starting to do some dumb things that waste money.

Specifically, I am talking about all of the amenities they are starting to build. Because they perceive a pressure to compete with private schools for students, they are building lavish student union buildings with rock-climbing walls and expresso bars. Is that what a public school is supposed to be doing with public money?

Doug K from Allentown wrote:

<quoted text>
As a KU graduate, I agree that public schools should get the lion's share of public monies as long as they continue to act like public sschools. I fear that KU is starting to do some dumb things that waste money.
Specifically, I am talking about all of the amenities they are starting to build. Because they perceive a pressure to compete with private schools for students, they are building lavish student union buildings with rock-climbing walls and expresso bars. Is that what a public school is supposed to be doing with public money?

the rec center at KU (where the rock climbing wall is) was built with student fees, not public money.

yeah wrote:

I went to a public school and de sales....I personally thought the public education was 500 times better. After desales I wished I had never left public education. So give the money to the public schools they give out a better product and are much more fair. Teachers @ de sales get away with doing whatever the hell they want its sad.

Apparently neither one of them taught you to capitalize a proper noun.....