Growth amendment fuelsopponents'angst

Why are they not using the correct title of the ammendment " Home Town Socialism". Isn't strange how people know what's best for other peoples property.

Looks like the pro development crowd is scared of the people having a say instead of our bought politicians.

gjv wrote:

Why are they not using the correct title of the ammendment " Home Town Socialism". Isn't strange how people know what's best for other peoples property.

I guess you dont like zoning law?

Why are they not using the correct title of the ammendment " Home Town Socialism". Isn't strange how people know what's best for other peoples property.
I guess you dont like zoning law? Do you really prefer giving up your rigts and liberty's to strangers?

let the developers go build in Iowa, Kansas, or South Dakota, they have already trashed Florida

Osceola county has 2 development areas:Urban and Rural. 70% on the land mass in Osceola is now designated rural-one house per 5 acres. In the Urban area a min of 5 units to the acre to a max of 25. This should result in very few comp plan changes after 2010. HTD goal was a childish goal of zero growth with wanting to turn the clock back to the 1960's before Disney. Give them credit as many counties tightened their comp plans due to HTD as many thought the proposal would be on the ballot in 2008. Now the real growth managers-the Florida courts- will get to weigh in after the 2010
vote.

"Florida's Realtors, home builders and developers have some business decisions to make this fall ....."

You know it's more than just big business that needs to make a decisions, it's the voters.

Do we want to potentially vote on over a hundred (non-important) items on the ballot and have to know the facts about each one?

We need to be making the voting system easier to in courage people to vote, this does the opposite!

Delusionole wrote:

Looks like the pro development crowd is scared of the people having a say instead of our bought politicians.

Well said. Politicians create the very problems they say they are trying to fix--traffic, overcrowded schools, overburdened facilities--because they won't say no to development. Development can be a good thing given proper planning, but that hasn't been the case in Orlando.

Procurator wrote:

Osceola county has 2 development areas:Urban and Rural. 70% on the land mass in Osceola is now designated rural-one house per 5 acres. In the Urban area a min of 5 units to the acre to a max of 25. This should result in very few comp plan changes after 2010. HTD goal was a childish goal of zero growth with wanting to turn the clock back to the 1960's before Disney. Give them credit as many counties tightened their comp plans due to HTD as many thought the proposal would be on the ballot in 2008. Now the real growth managers-the Florida courts- will get to weigh in after the 2010
vote.

What about the rest of the state that's been completely trashed with overdeveloped coastlines costing taxpayers millions whenever there is a storm, half completed subdivisions that were poorly planned, and all the current vacant homes in foreclosure? Most of us who were born and raised here detest the raping of this state. If "Smart Growth" had occurred earlier, perhaps we wouldn't resent the developers and the politicans who allowed themselves to be bought off.

Your comments about property rights would be laughable if not so pathetic. You don't have any "property rights" except what the law gives you. Neither do I. So if your "property rights" are delineated in your comprehensive plan, then I guess you have no problem with your "property rights" being changed, altered, destroyed and erased every time some commissioner gets a bee in their bonnet after a long lunch with Joe Developer about how they can build more houses/stores/roads and get more power/money. And you actually think something called your "property rights" has any meaning to these people? Changing a comprehensive land use plan dozens of times is a hobby of local yokels, and when have we ever been better off when they finished?
Your property rights, my a__. That's a fantasy they sell you to keep your brain away from what's happening in the back rooms.

Procurator's argument invoking the urban/rural boundary really is no argument. It is not that hard to expand the urban/rural boundary, if the right politicians are in office. I saw it happen plenty of times in Seminole County, and the county commission always got the Department of Community Affairs to cave in.

That said, it would be way too burdensome on local government to have to put all land-use changes on the ballot. Tightening up growth restrictions would be a better allocation of taxpayers dollars. As much as the evil side of me would like to see developers squirm.

But, at some point, developers are going to have to realize they are lower on the slime scale than used car salesmen and the scumbag lawyers who represent them. Get out of Dodge and go ruin another state!

They don't want ALL land use changes on the ballot. Just when the Crotty's of the world decide to rape an entire county for the sake of development which pays him a share. Funny how county commissioners and planning directors ALWAYS seem to own that hundred acres where a new freeway to 1000 identical crackerboxes are going. You don't like zoning? Then let me build an open sewer and outdoor rock palace in Heathrow. Maybe a pig farm in a nice Windemere subdivision.

Florida has been raped for centuries now. Developers buying swamp, then calling it farms, buying farms and calling them subdivision plots. It's time the people took back Florida from Associated Industries and the F ing developers. The own the legislature. They brag that they own the appellate courts. Now they want to own voting rights.

Socialism can only rise up where business becomes a monster. Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Developers...they skin the world while howling 'free trade!' and cry 'socialism!!!' if you try to rein them in. Screw that. Let's make owning 100 acres of land and turning it into a shopping mall a felony for all concerned. Especially the county employees and officials who approve of it.

Florida has had government of, by and for the developer for decades. Floridians now have an opportunity to decide how their communities are planned, instead of greedy developers and their political puppets. There is a link to Hometown Democracy, below.

http://www.floridahometowndemocracy.com/

Passing this amendment will ensure that things stay exactly the same for many years. This will not fix traffic, or bring better jobs, or raise your quality of life. Amendment 4 will effectively stop all land use changes – including the good ones; thus the landscape you see today will remain unchanged. For traffic problems to change density needs to increase enough to support other means of transportation, people then need to use it, get out of the car once in a while. This will stop growth dead in its tracks, jobs will go else where and eventuaolly their will be blight as far as the eye can see. Like southern version of Detroit.

Oh My Goodness wrote:

They don't want ALL land use changes on the ballot. Just when the Crotty's of the world decide to rape an entire county for the sake of development which pays him a share. Funny how county commissioners and planning directors ALWAYS seem to own that hundred acres where a new freeway to 1000 identical crackerboxes are going. You don't like zoning? Then let me build an open sewer and outdoor rock palace in Heathrow. Maybe a pig farm in a nice Windemere subdivision.
Florida has been raped for centuries now. Developers buying swamp, then calling it farms, buying farms and calling them subdivision plots. It's time the people took back Florida from Associated Industries and the F ing developers. The own the legislature. They brag that they own the appellate courts. Now they want to own voting rights.
Socialism can only rise up where business becomes a monster. Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Developers...they skin the world while howling 'free trade!' and cry 'socialism!!!' if you try to rein them in.**** that. Let's make owning 100 acres of land and turning it into a shopping mall a felony for all concerned. Especially the county employees and officials who approve of it.

They DO want ALL landuse changes on the ballot, your asleep at the wheel. This is not the right way to institute change, this will do more harm than good.

Just My Two Cents wrote:

<quoted text>
Well said. Politicians create the very problems they say they are trying to fix--traffic, overcrowded schools, overburdened facilities--because they won't say no to development. Development can be a good thing given proper planning, but that hasn't been the case in Orlando.

This will come as shock but Orlando is pretty well planned out unless they annex more property.Don't look for many more comp plan changes.

zgg wrote:

Procurator's argument invoking the urban/rural boundary really is no argument. It is not that hard to expand the urban/rural boundary, if the right politicians are in office. I saw it happen plenty of times in Seminole County, and the county commission always got the Department of Community Affairs to cave in.
That said, it would be way too burdensome on local government to have to put all land-use changes on the ballot. Tightening up growth restrictions would be a better allocation of taxpayers dollars. As much as the evil side of me would like to see developers squirm.
But, at some point, developers are going to have to realize they are lower on the slime scale than used car salesmen and the **** lawyers who represent them. Get out of Dodge and go ruin another state!

It's not going to be burdensome at all to put all the comp plan changes on the ballot.Take the required local ad out for the comp plan and put it on the ballot. Done. I am confident you live in a home or zoned subdivision that was here before 1975. If you don't than you are part of the problem with the rest of us that purchased a home that used to have a farm on it.