Johnny Robertson and What Does the Bible Say?

Does anyone here watch this program on Star 39? I'm interested to know what everyone thinks of Johnny and his gang.

I'd especially like to talk to someone who goes to one of the churches where he or the other men preach.

Nathan

He's worse than the preachers he puts down!

What's your beef with Johnny?(I'm not Johnny, by the way)

Nathan

I recently attended a meeting where Johnny was preaching, and he displayed several conversations/debates from his broadcast, and I found them very helpful. They simply debate about topics in the bible. Also, his show is a place where he will discuss biblical topics as basic as he knows, and will allow people to call in to question things he's said. His whole program is a means to teach straight from the bible rather than impose alternate literature to those watching. When/if you listen to his show, you should begin by realizing the bible is the most authoritative literature with regard to christianity.

Sadida wrote:

Does anyone here watch this program on Star 39? I'm interested to know what everyone thinks of Johnny and his gang.
I'd especially like to talk to someone who goes to one of the churches where he or the other men preach.
Nathan

We support Johnny's good work. Presbyterian Nathan will not face him in a T.V. debate. I challenge Sadida a.k.a Nathan to a public debate on the What Does The Bible Say T.V. program on the subject of infant baptism.

What say you Nathan?

Shawn Heath Paden
www.roysecitycoc.org

This is dedicated to Presbyterian Nathan. ;)

Why I Left

The Presbyterian Church

By Keith Mosher, Sr.

No dishonesty is intended by enlarging for publication the original motives for departing, but it is hoped that any readers will be better able to grasp the thinking of this writer as Biblical truth was first discovered and the clash with Presbyterian Calvinism began.

Initial contact with Bible doctrine occurred in Erie, Pennsylvania as the result of a campaign by young people from Abilene Christian University. Two of the campaigners knocked on a door, asked the woman of the house whether they could “talk to her about Jesus,” and that week she was immersed into Christ (Galatians 3:26-27). A few weeks later her husband, this writer, also obeyed the gospel and a new family was born into the kingdom of God (John 3:1-5; Colossians 1:13-14). The Covenant Presbyterian Church had lost two members. Why?

The fervent desire of this essay is that all who read it will ask themselves why they are pursuing their particular religions and confront their creeds with the Biblical standard (1 John 4:1). This essay will focus on four areas of concern about Presbyterian Calvinism that led to the severing of ties with that man-made group:(1) Their teaching about God’s grace pictures God as a “horror!”(2) Their teaching about becoming a Christian falls far short of Bible truth.(3) Their teaching is false concerning God’s “choosing” of individuals.(4) Their teaching binds one to Calvinism, not to Christ.

more to come

God’s Grace had been Pictured as “Horror!”

Is God’s grace a horror or a help? Some dear reader may wonder at such a question, but the persistent doctrine of Calvinism that permeates the Presbyterian Church leads to such an inquiry. Calvinists believe that every minute thing that happens is caused by God. Listen to Boettner:

It is almost universally admitted that God determines when, where, and under what circumstances, each individual of our race shall be born, live, and die, whether it shall be male or female, white or black, wise or foolish. God is no less sovereign in the distribution of His favors. He does what He will with His own. To some He gives riches, to others honor, to others health, to others certain talents for music, oratory, art, finance, statesmanship, etc. Others are poor, unknown, born in dishonor, the victims of disease, and live lives of wretchedness. Some are place in Christian lands where they receive all the benefits of the Gospel; others live and die in the darkness of heathenism. Some are brought through faith unto salvation; others are left to perish in unbelief. And to a very large extent these eternal things, which are not the result of individual choice, decide the person’s life course and eternal destiny. Both Scripture and every day experience teach us that God gives to some what He withholds from others. If it be asked why He does this, or why He does not save all, the only available answer is found in the words of the Lord Jesus.“Yea, Father, for so it was well-pleasing in Thy sight.” Only the Scripture doctrine of the fall and redemption will give us any light on what we see about us.

Notice that God is said to be responsible for every failure and/or success of man! Every horror of life and every help in life is the selective result of the sovereignty of God (according to the above) and man can do nothing to alter these events. Man according to Calvinism, Augustinianism, and now modernism, cannot contribute one whit to his situation and/or salvation!

More to come

Calvinists start their argumentation with the thought that if any perfection in God’s divine (to them predestined) plan is denied then no stopping place can be found in thinking about God short of atheism. God did not need to create – says the Calvinist, but since God did create even the sinful acts of man have to be included in God’s plan! The Bible verses usually quoted to “prove” this theory by Calvinists are Acts 2:23; 4:28; Ephesians 1:4; 3:11; 2 Timothy 1:9 and 1 Peter 1:20. Those who argue for man’s part in salvation are said, by Calvinists, to deny God’s eternal purpose and to be saying further that man’s fall in the garden changed God’s purpose which fall “drove” God to the expedient of a scheme of redemption. That is, if the crucifixion of Christ was in the eternal plan, then all the acts that made the crucifixion necessary were also planned by God says the Calvinist and any other teaching is atheism!

Note the following quote carefully:“The fact that the Scriptures often speak of one purpose of God as dependent on the outcome of another or on the actions of men, is no objection against this doctrine”(of Calvinism, KM). Oh, so it does not matter that the Bible teaches against this doctrine of election, predestination, and the horror and help of grace! Well, it does matter and no Calvinist on earth has the authority to say that those verses that do not agree with his doctrine are just “man-talk” and not significant: that is, those scriptures are just figurative and not literal that mandate some action on man’s part in the scheme of redemption (cf., Hebrews 5:8-9; John 14:15; Acts 2:38; 1 John 2:3; 5:3; et. al.).

Is it a wonder then, that one would want to leave a system where God was said to be arbitrary and that taught that one could not know whether one had been elected or rejected without some “convulsion” or “experience” directly from God! A child, growing up under such teaching, lives in fear – not knowing whether God loves him or not! The grace of God becomes a “horror” rather than a help. It is a tremendous relief to learn that the Bible teaches that anyone can respond to God and that God desires all men be saved (Matthew 11:28-30; Revelation 22:17; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9). One leaving Calvinism knows well what is meant by being “transformed out of the power of darkness into His marvelous light”(1 Peter 2:9).

more to come

Salvation Teaching was Short of Truth

The creed of the Presbyterian Church to which this writer had confessed stated:

Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; those whom God effectually calleth He also freely justifieth:…not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God (The Westminster Confession of Faith).

Man is totally depraved and cannot respond to God, yet is called to do so (Matthew 11:28-30; Revelation 22:17; et al) according to the creed above. So, God must call one, operate on one’s heart, and give one faith in order to save one elected before creation to be saved! When asked,“Is not God unjust in requiring of man in God’s Law what man cannot do?” the answer given is that God did create man with the ability to obey but man lost said ability in the fall of Adam and Eve (Westminster Confession of Faith and the Heidelberg Catechism). Did Adam and Eve obey God and leave the garden? Presbyterianism denies man’s self-will and denies clear Bible statements. Man can obey God (1 John 2:3; 5:3, etc.) and must obey God (Hebrews 5:8-9).

Presbyterianism sprinkles water on infants (only the “elect ones” of course) and labels the acts as “baptism.” Baptism is seen by them as not necessary to salvation, but as an outward joining to the church and as a sign of a covenant with grace already accomplished by God. The Bible teaches that baptism is immersion or burial in water in order to salvation (Romans 6:3-4; 1 Peter 3:20-21; Acts 2:38). Only those who can believe can be immersed (Mark 16:16). Infants cannot believe, therefore are not candidates for baptism.

The Presbyterian creed also looses God’s law of divorce and remarriage (Matthew 19:9).“Willful” desertion (leaving one’s mate) that cannot be “remedied by the Church or civil magistrates, is cause sufficient of dissolving the bond of marriage”(The Westminster Confession of Faith). Christ stated that ONLY fornication was reason to dissolve a marriage and that ONLY the innocent could remarry (Matthew 19:9-12; Mark 10:11-12). Paul reiterated this (1 Corinthians 7:10-11). Presbyterian doctrine therefore adds to God’s Word (Proverbs 30:6).

more to come

God’s “Choosing of Individuals” was Incorrectly Taught

No better illustration of how God can use a person to fulfill His purpose and yet not interfere with that person’s ability to choose or reject the salvation of God could be located in all history than Pharaoh.“For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, even, for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth”(Romans 9:17). Pharaoh openly defied God, therefore God’s will hardened Pharaoh (Exodus 9:16). God intended to show mercy to the Israelites through Pharaoh, but Pharaoh hearing the same messages from God that Moses and the Israelites heard, rejected God’s plans and so was said to be hardened by God and at the same time to harden Pharaoh’s own heart (Exodus 9:7, 12, 34). Truly the Word of God is a “two-edged sword”(Hebrews 4:12). God chose Pharaoh to show mercy to Israel, not to condemn Pharaoh. Pharaoh condemned himself by refusing to be a part of God’s purposes. The sincere Bible student will recognize that even Moses was in the same position before God when Moses was called to lead Israel (Exodus 3-4) as Pharaoh was when God called that ancient Egyptian to show mercy to His Hebrew slaves. Moses responded in a positive way, but Pharaoh did not. Pharaoh could have been part of salvation’s plan, but he chose to rebel. The sincere Bible student will also recognize that God would have accomplished His purposes whether Pharaoh obeyed or not and that is the whole point here. God works His purposes through man, but such working does not affect man’s individual choice of obedience or rebellion (Romans 6:16-18).
God has the power to use individuals and nations as He chooses (Romans 9:21). However, each person has the power to choose the character of the vessel so chosen by God. Romans 9:21 is not teaching that God chooses some to be saved (honor) and some to be lost (dishonor), but does teach that in working out God’s purposes certain individuals were used.

more to come

Before the time of Christ, the Jewish nation had long been “fitted” for destruction (Romans 9:22). The Jewish nation, through her leaders, had also executed the Son of God (Acts 2:36). But God “endured”, why? Because God was doing exactly what God intended to do, bring in the Gentiles and those Jews who would obey the gospel –“vessels of mercy”(Romans 9:23-24). The Jewish prophet, Hosea, had foretold of God’s purposes in these matters of salvation (Romans 9:25) and Paul uses that Old Testament passage (Hosea 2:23) as his proof text for arguing that the intentions of God always supercede the character of the human vessels involved. God intended that the Gentiles hear the gospel and used the Jews to bring the message. That fact never did mean that God must save every Israelite nor does God’s usage of any person mean that automatically salvation is due the one so used. Everyone must obey from his own heart in order to be saved (2 Peter 3:9; Hosea 1:10; Romans 9:26).
One Was Bound to Calvin Not Christ!
The only route to having the God of heaven as one’s Father is through the Christ (John 14:6). But, Presbyterianism binds one to Calvin’s doctrine NOT to Christ’s teaching since only “ordained” Calvinistic preachers may administer “sacraments.” Any person trying to come to Christ simply by obeying the Scripture is told he has no ability to do so, may or may not be one of God’s elect, and must join the Presbyterian Church through baptism (i.e., sprinkling) by one ordained as a Presbyterian preacher! The Bible records Christ as saying “Come unto Me”(Matthew 11:28)!
There are numerous unscriptural and non-scriptural practices by this denomination, from “clergy-laity” errors, worship errors (including the instrument), and organizational errors. In short, Presbyterianism is heir to all the faults of the Church of England and the Reformation. Any or all of the above should cause the reader to want to separate from such horror and heresy. This writer did!

http://home.earthlink.net/~heartlandcoc/id56 ....

www.roysecitycoc.org

We need more straight talking, bible toting, bible quoting, men like Johny Robertson.

There are to many preachers today who stand in pulpits and tell people what they want to hear instead of the pure gospel (Rom.1:16).

missionprinting.us - Click on publications.

in love Nova

When Johnny visited Johnson Street Church of Christ, did he confront them on the fact that they were searching for a youth minister, when there is no biblical authorization for such a person in a church?
Did Shawn Heath tell Johnny that he should confront the folks at Johnson Street Church of Christ about the fact that they were looking to hire someone to do something that is not authorized in Scripture?
If not, why not? Didn't Shawn Heath say that Johnson Street Church of Christ supports Johnny's efforts in Martinsville/Henry County?
Isn't that interesting.
Nathan
http://answeringchurchofchrist.wordpress.com

Answering the Church of Christ
A place to discuss the television broadcasts of Johnny Robertson, Norm Fields, and James Oldfield. Three Church of Christ broadcasters in Southern Virginia and North Carolina.

This Presbyterian Nathan's blog. It's funny to me that it's called Answering the Church of Christ when must of the comments are questions. "What about...?" "What if...?" "Why do...?"

It's just a gripe blog for those who despise faithful churches of Christ.

www.roysecitycoc.org

Nathan, why don't you tell the good folks of Martinsville why you are afraid to debate me or Johnny on his T.V. show? What's holding you back in the shadows?

It would be therapeutic for you to talk about it. ;)

www.roysecitycoc.org

When Johnny visited Johnson Street Church of Christ, did he confront them on the fact that they were searching for a youth minister, when there is no biblical authorization for such a person in a church?

Did Shawn Heath tell Johnny that he should confront the folks at Johnson Street Church of Christ about the fact that they were looking to hire someone to do something that is not authorized in Scripture?

If not, why not?

Didn't Shawn Heath say that Johnson Street Church of Christ supports Johnny's efforts in Martinsville/Henry County?

Isn't that interesting.

Nathan

http://answeringchurchofchrist.wordpress.com

Nice try trolling the blog, by the way. But if you really think that making the comment, "are you finished fornicating yet" is the best way to get yourself un-banned from the blog, you've got another thing coming.

Presbyterian Nathan, why don't you tell the good folks of Martinsville why you are afraid to debate me or Johnny on his T.V. show? What's holding you back in the shadows?

It would be therapeutic for you to talk about it. ;)

www.roysecitycoc.org

Heath wrote:

Answering the Church of Christ
A place to discuss the television broadcasts of Johnny Robertson, Norm Fields, and James Oldfield. Three Church of Christ broadcasters in Southern Virginia and North Carolina.
This Presbyterian Nathan's blog. It's funny to me that it's called Answering the Church of Christ when must of the comments are questions. "What about...?" "What if...?" "Why do...?"
It's just a gripe blog for those who despise faithful churches of Christ.
www.roysecitycoc.org

You know God uses strange situations to get his message out to the people sometimes. It very well may be that Nathans / Sadidas website may backfire and actually send more people to Johny and other gospel preachers where they can hear truth.

http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html

Click on publications

I highly recommend the booklet entitled -

"A Reply To A Denominational Preacher"

in love Nova

THE PC-USA AND HOMOSEXUALITY. A vote to disassociate the Presbyterian Church-USA from homosexual ministries within the denomination failed by a margin of 2-1 at its 1984 Assembly. The PC-USA has a formal policy that allows for homosexuals to be received as members, and even allows for the ordination of homosexuals as long as they do not engage in same-sex relationships. In practice, homosexuals within the PC-USA carry on with their perverted lifestyles, and the PC-USA brings no discipline against them. The committee which recommended the change in homosexual policy in 1991 equated “sexism” and “heterosexism” with “racism” and condemned resistance to homosexuality as homophobia. The 1988 assembly of the Presbytery of Genesse Valley, New York, invited the Rochester Gay Men’s Chorus to perform a concert. In 1991 the PC-USA filed a “friend-of-the-court” legal brief in support of the attempt to overthrow Kentucky’s sodomy law. In 1992 the PC-USA Committee on Educational Ministry recommended that the denomination refuse to allow Boy Scout troops to use church basements to punish the Scouts for their policy of barring homosexuals from being troop leaders. Erig Graninger, associate general counsel for the Presbyterians, said,“It is not for the state to tell the citizens of Kentucky what their morals should be.” Delegates to the 1993 PC-USA Assembly voted to support Clinton’s effort to remove the military’s ban on homosexuals. A poll taken in 1996 showed that 35 percent of PC-USA pastors and 32 percent of the members supported homosexual ordination. The attitude of many of the homosexuals within the PC-USA is represented by a statement made by Howard Warren at the General Conference, July 1996 --“I do not like how THIS HETEROSEXUAL DICTATORSHIP treats my people.” There are 73 PC-USA congregations which identify themselves as “More Light” churches,“meaning they are willing to ordain gay and lesbian members to church office.” According to the Associated Press, July 5, 1996,“about 20 ordained pastors have told their congregations they are gay or lesbian.” In January 2000, seven professors from Presbyterian USA seminaries signed “a declaration on morality that calls upon all faiths to bless same-sex couples and allow gay and lesbian ministers”(“Liberal Clergy Endorse Declaration on Sexual Morality,” Associated Press, Jan. 18, 2000). On May 24, 2000, the Presbyterian Church’s Judicial Commission made two rulings in favor of homosexuals. It ruled that ministers may perform “holy union” ceremonies for homosexual couples as long as they don’t call it “marriage.” It also ruled that a church in New Jersey may accept a homosexual man as a candidate for ordination (“Presbyterian Church Approves ‘Holy Unions’ for Gays, Lesbians,” San Francisco Chronicle, May 25, 2000). On June 30, 2000, the Presbyterian Church’s General Assembly narrowly voted to prohibit ministers from officiating at “holy union” ceremonies for homosexuals. This does not settle the matter, though. The measure (which passed by a vote of 268 to 251) must go before the denomination’s 171 presbyteries. It becomes church law only if passed by a majority of the regional bodies. Even if it becomes law, the Presbyterian Church USA will continue to be the same unholy mixed multitude that it has been from its inception, because there is no call for unrepent homosexuals to be put out of churches as the Bible demands (1 Corinthians 5). The mainline denominations do not follow the Bible; they practice religious politics. That is apostasy.

Hey Nathan, tell Martinsville if you are one of those homosexual Presbyterians. This is what your denomination promotes.

www.roysecitycoc.org