Shawn Paden confused over doctrine

Is Shawn Paden confused? One minutes he stands firmly for two brethren holding opposing views, stating they ‘remained in fellowship’ despite their disagreement over the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. So, we point this out to Shawn who then comes back to show us that the early Church had divisional problems, which we here already knew. But, he wanted to use this as an out for supporting “unity in division”-- he knew he had crossed the Church of Christ line in the sand when he sided with two opposing doctrines, so he began looking for ways to water it down. We haven’t let him forget this and will never let him forget this.

Now he wants to pretend that this never occurred by coming back with their typical Church of Christ attacks and threw us the 1. Cor. 1:10 as if now he denies division within his denomination. Sorry Shawn Paden, but that just wont get by us here.

Shawn Paden:

So do you attend the personal indwelling of the Spirit Church of Christ?

Perhaps the mental divorce Church of Christ?

Maybe the ONE cup communion Church of Christ?

You guys agree to disagree sometimes and then sometimes you split…

Sorry, buddy…..you have nobody here hoodwinked.

You really need to call Johnnie or somebody and have them help you here. You have dug yourself a hole that we will not allow you to cover. We will constantly remind you of this. You should carefully look at your own statements and perhaps allow Gods grace to replace the things you wish to hide under the rugs. We all fall Short Shawn and as you helped point this out.

Is absolute doctrinal conformity is necessary for scriptural fellowship?

If absolute doctrinal conformity is required to have scriptural fellowship between two Christians, there are no two Christians in the entire world who have absolute doctrinal conformity. The concept of perfect doctrinal correctness makes fellowship with God or with another Christian practically impossible.

Who among your Church are perfectly doctrinally correct? Are you really? If you are, how long have you been so? How long has it been since you’ve had to change on some doctrinal issue? If you believe complete doctrinal correctness is required for fellowship with God or with other Christians, were you in fellowship with God just before you changed doctrinally the last time?

Is that like Bill's confusion about credo-baptism and pedo-baptism? lol

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Boy, do you have me pegged incorrectly.

Do you think I am Nathan or someone outside looking in? I have your teachings in my head just as you and they come from the Church of Christ.

Nice twist, but no cookie.

Bill wrote:

Boy, do you have me pegged incorrectly.
Do you think I am Nathan or someone outside looking in? I have your teachings in my head just as you and they come from the Church of Christ.
Nice twist, but no cookie.

You won't "boot" pedo-baptist. Why? Perhaps a little confused?

I know who you are. You're the typical compromising liberal that stays in a liberal church of Christ where you feel oh so good. ;)

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Ouch, I'm now an awful liberal. I prefer the term progressive over liberal. lol

You used the word compromise...hhhhmmmmmmmm

Again, lets discuss this issue where you sided with two 'conservative" Church of Christ brethren who debated each other over the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Did you not compromise? How about the folks at Johnson street? Do they ever compromise?

Give me a list of who you will "boot" and why?

Please start with those who believe in the personal indwelling of the Spirit. Then those who state one MUST use one cup at communion. And those who adhere to mental divorce. All of these come from the conservative camp.

Perhaps you are a little confused?

I know who you are. You're the typical compromising radical hyper-conservative that stays in a legalistic church of Christ where you feel oh so good. ;)

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heath wrote:

<quoted text>
You're the typical compromising liberal that stays in a liberal church of Christ where you feel oh so good. ;)
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"a liberal church of Christ"? Aren't churches of Christ all the same in unity where the denominations are all wrong? You mean there are "liberal" churches of Christ??

Shawn would refer to the liberals as "The Denominational Church of Christ" or maybe progressives. Go to this website http://graceconversation.com/ and here you find the liberals he dislikes. Funny thing is three conservatives stop discussion once they seen they were not able to defend their teachings. Shawn Paden could easily go there and take Phil, Mac and Gregs place, but you wont see that happening. Matter of fact Shawn stopped by once to make a fast hit and run comment...didnt see him saying much there.

Bill wrote:

Ouch, I'm now an awful liberal. I prefer the term progressive over liberal. lol
You used the word compromise...hhhhmmmmmmmm
Again, lets discuss this issue where you sided with two 'conservative" Church of Christ brethren who debated each other over the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Did you not compromise? How about the folks at Johnson street? Do they ever compromise?
Give me a list of who you will "boot" and why?
Please start with those who believe in the personal indwelling of the Spirit. Then those who state one MUST use one cup at communion. And those who adhere to mental divorce. All of these come from the conservative camp.
Perhaps you are a little confused?
I know who you are. You're the typical compromising radical hyper-conservative that stays in a legalistic church of Christ where you feel oh so good. ;)

You won't "boot" pedo-baptist. Why? Perhaps a little confused?

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Let's look at some characteristics of liberals among us. While all of these characteristics may not be present in all liberals, they are representative.

Liberals downplay the necessity of a "thus saith the Lord" for what they do. Scripture is either ignored, excused as being culture or gender biased, or looked upon as being subjective.

Liberals tend to have an ends justify the means attitude. This attitude is evident in the matter of the work and worship of the church. Lavish entertainment schemes are devised to "draw them in so we can teach them later."

Liberals tend to downplay the necessity of baptism for the remission of sins. Some will try to expand their definition of a Christian to anyone who has been immersed. Some of the even more radical among the liberals who claim that even those who have been sprinkled are Christians.

Liberals want to fellowship those who are not in fellowship with God. Men are invited to liberal gatherings who are either denominational preachers or openly fellowship denominations.

Liberals tolerate almost everything, with the exception of faithful brethren who question their false views. They exercise an irenic spirit toward those in denominations, while reacting with hatred toward conservative brethren. They often get mad when asked to justify their unscriptural actions. Those who object are called "right wingers”“legalist” "traditionalists," "radicals," "hide bound," and "moss backed," among other things.

Liberals do not believe in the distinctiveness of the church. They are constantly talking about "the yellow pages church of Christ" and talk about "our fellowship" and "our heritage." They seek to expand the church to include many who have never even obeyed the gospel.

Liberals laugh about the "restoration plea" They believe that it is impossible to restore New Testament Christianity. They have said, "What church should we restore? Corinth? Ephesus? Laodicea?" They talk about the restoration period as the beginning point for the church of Christ.

Liberals deny that there is a pattern for the church. To them it doesn't matter how we worship, or how one becomes a Christian, or how the church functions. Many of them will declare that "everything we do in life is worship." With this casting off of the pattern our present day liberals are inching toward the open use of instrumental music in the worship.

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Liberals always talk about grace and deny the obedience is necessary for salvation. Instead of holding a biblical view that balance both grace and obedience, they, as a whole, deny the necessity of obedience. Some have even begun to teach "grace only" and "faith only."

These are just a few of the characteristic of the liberals among us. While we could easily give a refutation to each of these areas we need only go to a couple of Scriptures to give us the answer. "Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said,'We will not walk in it'" (Jeremiah 6:16). ""You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you" (Deuteronomy 4:2).

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"Back to Jesus, back to the Bible, back to Jerusalem."

These words declare the direction we are traveling. We are not progressives departing from Christ (II John 9). We are looking for "the old paths" that we may walk therein (Jer. 6:16). The faith was once for all times delivered to the saints (Jude 3). Jesus is our savior, founder and head; we look to no other man. The Bible is our standard; we need no other book of doctrine. The church which began in Jerusalem some 2,000 years ago is our pattern.

John Waddey

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There are ULTRA liberals as there are ULTRA conservatives.

Far as you statement of obedience being required to be saved, I would have to ask that you clarify that more. If you mean you are to work to stay saved as if you could earn your place with God by your works, I will side with Paul.

2 John 9

* King James Version, "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ..."

* American Standard Version 1901, "Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ..."

* Revised Standard Version, "Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ..."

* New English Bible, "Anyone who runs ahead too far, and does not stand by the doctrine of the Christ is without God.."

* New International Version, "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ..."

* Jerusalem Bible, "If anybody does not keep within the teaching of Christ but goes beyond it...."

* The New American Bible, "Anyone who is so "progressive" that he does not remain rooted in the teach of Christ...."

* New American Standard Bible, "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ..."

* New Century Version, "Anyone who goes beyond Christ’s teaching and does not continue to follow only his teaching...."

* New Living Translation, "For if you wander beyond the teaching of Christ...."

* Twentieth Century New Testament, Whosoever "goes beyond the limits of the Teaching of the Christ"

* J. Phillips Modern English New Testament, "The man who is so "advanced" that he is not content with what Christ taught..."

* Charles B. Williams The New Testament, "No one has God, who goes too far and fails to stay by the teaching of Christ..."

* Amplified Bible, "Any one who runs on ahead of God and does ot abide in the doctrine of Christ..."

* The Complete Bible, An American Translation, " Anyone who goes too far and does not keep to the teaching Christ...."

Here is Bill's "progressive" agenda.

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* The New American Bible, "Anyone who is so "progressive" that he does not remain rooted in the teaching of Christ...." 2 John 9

hhhhmmmmmm

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Do you really want to discuss 2 John 9 and its context? I am sure you know where I am heading. And if we use your application here, you know I will bring up your double stands and how you tolerate opposing doctrines. You are really trying your hardest to remain truw to the conservative mindset, but you know you cant when you take it to its extreme. Explain to all your interpretation of 2 John 9 and then explain how you side with two brethren over a doctrinal issue. Shawn, cant you even see you aren’t making any sense at all trying to make a case for something you are not practicing yourself.

Army of God wrote:

Shawn would refer to the liberals as "The Denominational Church of Christ" or maybe progressives. Go to this website http://graceconversation.com/ and here you find the liberals he dislikes. Funny thing is three conservatives stop discussion once they seen they were not able to defend their teachings. Shawn Paden could easily go there and take Phil, Mac and Gregs place, but you wont see that happening. Matter of fact Shawn stopped by once to make a fast hit and run comment...didnt see him saying much there.

I am just so surprised that he applied the actual "church of Christ" label to the so-called "liberals". He seems so oriented to labelling everything that it would appear he accepts them as cofC since he used that specific term. Not a name I would expect him to be loose in application of.

Yeah, he could have made himself more clear, but we have hit him from so many angles that he cant keep up and his side kick abandoned him. You will only see Mr. Johnnie only every few weeks, that way he keeps Shawn on board. It is a bit funny to see how well Johnnie controls Shawn. The funny part is I can tell Shawn this and he still cant see what Johnnie is doing.

Far as the liberal Church of Christ goes, they do not consider a progressive as their brother. Even though the same name is used, even same doctrines practiced in most cases, they hate that we emphasize grace over works. They rather try to earns Gods favor. They even think they can, which is about the silliest thing for any human being to think. Johnnie must see that if he doesn’t modify his message a bit that some will catch on. I noticed he mixed grace in his message last Sunday morning. He was clever with this too. He sounded like a progressive. Lol . Actually, Johnnie is walking very close to the middle ground or safe ground you could say. He really is a die-hard conservative at heart, but he knows he is running people away with that legalistic stuff, so he is now throwing a little grace in with it to make it sound more inviting. Clever!

Shawn is still being true to the die-hard position, not caving at all. He doesn’t have many answers and it frustrates him but he remains true to his seat of pride and never will he admit he is wrong nor will he say he just doesn’t know. See, these guys want us to think they have every answer, so he cant dare admit he doesn’t. Johnnie is at least saying he doesn’t have every answer now, but he merely says this so he can make people think he isn’t puffed up with pride. Again….very clever.

The conservatives do not see the progressives as Christians, even if they wear the same name.

"Far as the liberal Church of Christ goes, they do not consider a progressive as their brother." Bill

FALSE

Brother in error? TRUE

My wife has an uncle that PROGRESSED himself out of the church of Christ into the Jehova's Witness religion. Is he a brother? YES. A brother in error? YES

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