Battered wife's murder conviction overturned by WV Supreme Court of Appeals

Another case of approved murder! The courts in this country are establishing a pattern of freeing women who murder their husbands, giving a message to all abused women that it's okay to kill instead of leaving. A woman can falsify abuse and be justified for killing her sleeping husband, as Mary Winkler did, because everyone feels sympathy for an abused woman. Well, abuse is not justification for the cowardly act of killing someone while he sleeps. First, there was the case on which the movie, Burning Bed, was based; then Mary Winkler, and now Harden. While I can understand how she suffered at her husband's hands and deplore the treatment of her by him, there is no justification for her killing him as she did. As in all these cases, she could have left but chose, instead, to kill him while he lay helpless. Her act took away any sympathy I would have felt for her. Releasing her is a grave injustice.

i don't know the whole story that u r referring to,
coming from a formerly abused woman (me) it is NOT as easy to leave as everyone thinks, these men (abusers) "brain wash" you to believe u will never leave them and live, they tell u no one will want u that u r used goods, that u have no money and no one will help u, among the many other things they tell u ....

The woman was very abused and battered the night this happened, and when the husband fell asleep or passed out from drunkenness, she shot him. I've never been abused but have known of women who were. My daughter-in-law worked as a counselor at a shelter for women, so I realize what you said about brainwashing is true; but, nevertheless, it's not necessary to kill someone in spite of the fact the abused woman feels it's the only way. Fear prevents logical thinking, which is what happens; but that's not the way out of a bad situation. It only makes it worse.

walk by faith wrote:

i don't know the whole story that u r referring to,
coming from a formerly abused woman (me) it is NOT as easy to leave as everyone thinks, these men (abusers) "brain wash" you to believe u will never leave them and live, they tell u no one will want u that u r used goods, that u have no money and no one will help u, among the many other things they tell u ....

Logan wrote:

The woman was very abused and battered the night this happened, and when the husband fell asleep or passed out from drunkenness, she shot him. I've never been abused but have known of women who were. My daughter-in-law worked as a counselor at a shelter for women, so I realize what you said about brainwashing is true; but, nevertheless, it's not necessary to kill someone in spite of the fact the abused woman feels it's the only way. Fear prevents logical thinking, which is what happens; but that's not the way out of a bad situation. It only makes it worse.<quoted text>

As you stated you have never been abused that is wonderful be thankful for your blessing. unless you been there you do not know FEAR. There is nothing like fear in the life of an abused woman with no place to go. IF you don't see a way out there is none.
Read the news and learn how men are killing their wives getting away with it.

letha wrote:

<quoted text>
As you stated you have never been abused that is wonderful be thankful for your blessing. unless you been there you do not know FEAR. There is nothing like fear in the life of an abused woman with no place to go. IF you don't see a way out there is none.
Read the news and learn how men are killing their wives getting away with it.

i defininatly (misspelled) felt a lot of fear and helplessness ...he actually end up leaving me for someone else and even though i would have stayed always hoping it would have gotten better ....his leaving me was the best thing he ever did for me,
i do realize that not all women r so blessed,
before he found her and wanted to leave he used all the fear and brainwashing that those guys use

I am most thankful, but I could give you a long list of circumstances in which I was subjected to threats of death by very violent people (not domestic abuse); but I didn't let fear control me so I survived. In addition, I used to counsel parolees that included rapists and murderers, including a few who had murdered their wives; so I am well aware of the violence perpetrated by men on those close to them. I got some interesting answers when I asked each why he committed his crime. Women have to learn to leave the first time it happens. When you stay with the abuser, it's as if you're giving him permission for abuse.

letha wrote:

<quoted text>
As you stated you have never been abused that is wonderful be thankful for your blessing. unless you been there you do not know FEAR. There is nothing like fear in the life of an abused woman with no place to go. IF you don't see a way out there is none.
Read the news and learn how men are killing their wives getting away with it.

Logan wrote:

I am most thankful, but I could give you a long list of circumstances in which I was subjected to threats of death by very violent people (not domestic abuse); but I didn't let fear control me so I survived. In addition, I used to counsel parolees that included rapists and murderers, including a few who had murdered their wives; so I am well aware of the violence perpetrated by men on those close to them. I got some interesting answers when I asked each why he committed his crime. Women have to learn to leave the first time it happens. When you stay with the abuser, it's as if you're giving him permission for abuse.<quoted text>

Today there is more help for women than in my day but I, like you, could stand up to anyone who abused a friend etc but when it came to defending myself the fear was so bad I could not help myself.
It is easy when you are on the outside looking in to say there is a way out but if the woman can NOT see it then its not there for her. With fear and control in her life it takes a giant amount of help for her to see outside her abuser.
It is diffrent when you are speaking up to someone else's abuser because you don't fear them but if you were the victim trust me it would be very scary for you.

Logan wrote:

I am most thankful, but I could give you a long list of circumstances in which I was subjected to threats of death by very violent people (not domestic abuse); but I didn't let fear control me so I survived. In addition, I used to counsel parolees that included rapists and murderers, including a few who had murdered their wives; so I am well aware of the violence perpetrated by men on those close to them. I got some interesting answers when I asked each why he committed his crime. Women have to learn to leave the first time it happens. When you stay with the abuser, it's as if you're giving him permission for abuse.<quoted text>

I know it's hard to understand the fear these women feel, it's like nothing you can comprehend unless you've been there. And honestly the law does try but it doesn't matter if they get a restraining warrant the guys don't obey them, they feel the woman is theirs to do with as they want. Yes, we have all seen "the burning bed" we have seen others but those just show some of the things these women go through. There was a movie (true story) on about a woman that was beaten & abused by her husband, she did all the right things we're suppose to do but in the end, no amount of police calls helped her, he beat her almost to death in front of a police officer, neighbors and her child and nothing was done to help her. So don't judge too quick unless you have walked in one of these women shoes.

what is this about and who got murdered,and when please iam a woman

ok iam sorry i went and read it.and she deserves to be free of him now.but she will still always be afraid.

You have some very good points but I, nevertheless, would not allow a man to do that to me. I could never allow anyone to take control of me that way. There was an incident when a man was coming through my bedroom window. I saw him as he was sitting in the window and pushing up the window, which had fallen back down on him; so I rushed to the window, grabbed a stick that was there to hold up the window, and beat him in the face. He was so startled that he turned around and fled down the snowy fire escape. Of course, this isn't the same as abuse but the point is that I didn't allow fear to take over. Once you are afraid, you're in trouble. Women must learn to be logical. If we tolerate abuse, we'll be abused.

letha wrote:

<quoted text>
Today there is more help for women than in my day but I, like you, could stand up to anyone who abused a friend etc but when it came to defending myself the fear was so bad I could not help myself.
It is easy when you are on the outside looking in to say there is a way out but if the woman can NOT see it then its not there for her. With fear and control in her life it takes a giant amount of help for her to see outside her abuser.
It is diffrent when you are speaking up to someone else's abuser because you don't fear them but if you were the victim trust me it would be very scary for you.

Logan wrote:

You have some very good points but I, nevertheless, would not allow a man to do that to me. I could never allow anyone to take control of me that way. There was an incident when a man was coming through my bedroom window. I saw him as he was sitting in the window and pushing up the window, which had fallen back down on him; so I rushed to the window, grabbed a stick that was there to hold up the window, and beat him in the face. He was so startled that he turned around and fled down the snowy fire escape. Of course, this isn't the same as abuse but the point is that I didn't allow fear to take over. Once you are afraid, you're in trouble. Women must learn to be logical. If we tolerate abuse, we'll be abused.<quoted text>

you are correct women should not let fear control them BUT try to tell a woman who under the control of fear that her abuser brainwashed her into believing she has nobody and no where to go nobody will have her etc. It's not the same as protecting yourself against someone else.
We say we can do this or do that but when the time comes we are not very brave against our abuser.

I understand abuse and have been a battered woman at the hands of my xpoliceman husband. It finally stopped when I got a gun (His) and told him if he ever hit me again I would shoot him. He made a lot of noise about taking my children with all of his friends and power and how he could do what ever he wanted but he never stepped one inch closer and I explained to him that some judge might tell him he could have my kids but I would keep that gun with me and when he came to pick them up I,d shoot him his response was youll go to jail and mine was yes but youll be dead. I walked out and he rattled his chains for a year or so but never got brave enough to test me. I had desided I would rather be dead than to live like that anymore. You can get out the door and then there are people and places to help you. Years ago it was bad but today a note with your child when he goes to school an email to a battered wife hot line church a neighbor plan it and most important dont let it get to that point the first time get out before you spend years letting it get out of control. If you and your batterer are in the middle of a fight he or she and a gun becomes involved and someone gets shot self-defense if you wait and shoot him in his sleep not so much go out the door to a neighbor and call the police they will help.

Logan wrote:

The woman was very abused and battered the night this happened, and when the husband fell asleep or passed out from drunkenness, she shot him. I've never been abused but have known of women who were. My daughter-in-law worked as a counselor at a shelter for women, so I realize what you said about brainwashing is true; but, nevertheless, it's not necessary to kill someone in spite of the fact the abused woman feels it's the only way. Fear prevents logical thinking, which is what happens; but that's not the way out of a bad situation. It only makes it worse.<quoted text>

I disagree with you 100 percent! You said yourself you had never been an abused woman so you shouldnt even give a opinion on this situation.
Until you have walked in someone's shoes you have no idea what it is like, everyone doesnt have a perfect life, and yes I agree with the brainwashing thing, but theres also something called a breaking point, your abuser takes you so far then you snap,your not in your right mind when this happens and bad things come from it.
I dont approve of murder by any means, but look at this way this lady knows about abuse, she has lived it, she didnt learn about abuse from a "counselor/daughter in law" and the sad part is her attacker/ abuser never went away he just kept on abusing her until she snapped.
It doesnt make the murder right but it's not like she was on some kind of killing spree she killed her attacker so to speak.
And for all those people who say just leave, well it's not always that easy.
And the sad fact is if she hadnt killed him he eventually wouldve hit her one to many times and killed her, and I bet he wouldnt have spent 5 years if he even served a day.

I stick by what I said. I am tired of the world supporting criminal acts by abused women who kill their abusers. It's not necessary to murder the man to get away from him. All it takes is some spine and logic. I have as much right to express my opinion as you. I don't have to "walk in her shoes" to understand abuse and the mind of the abused. For example, one doesn't have to be the victim in order to understand pain and suffering. Take the current murder trials in Tennessee of the evil men who tortured and killed Channon Christian and Chris Newsom. I understand the horror Chris and Channon went through without having endured what they did. That "walking in her shoes" bit is nonsense.

I disagree wrote:

<quoted text>I disagree with you 100 percent! You said yourself you had never been an abused woman so you shouldnt even give a opinion on this situation.
Until you have walked in someone's shoes you have no idea what it is like, everyone doesnt have a perfect life, and yes I agree with the brainwashing thing, but theres also something called a breaking point, your abuser takes you so far then you snap,your not in your right mind when this happens and bad things come from it.
I dont approve of murder by any means, but look at this way this lady knows about abuse, she has lived it, she didnt learn about abuse from a "counselor/daughter in law" and the sad part is her attacker/ abuser never went away he just kept on abusing her until she snapped.
It doesnt make the murder right but it's not like she was on some kind of killing spree she killed her attacker so to speak.
And for all those people who say just leave, well it's not always that easy.
And the sad fact is if she hadnt killed him he eventually wouldve hit her one to many times and killed her, and I bet he wouldnt have spent 5 years if he even served a day.

Logan wrote:

I stick by what I said. I am tired of the world supporting criminal acts by abused women who kill their abusers. It's not necessary to murder the man to get away from him. All it takes is some spine and logic. I have as much right to express my opinion as you. I don't have to "walk in her shoes" to understand abuse and the mind of the abused. For example, one doesn't have to be the victim in order to understand pain and suffering. Take the current murder trials in Tennessee of the evil men who tortured and killed Channon Christian and Chris Newsom. I understand the horror Chris and Channon went through without having endured what they did. That "walking in her shoes" bit is nonsense.<quoted text>

What you need honey is a dose of reality, I'm a correctional Officer, and one of the first things you are taught by WVDOC is to never tell a prisoner "You Understand" because if you havent walked in their shoes then you dont understand!
The same goes for the school of life, if you havent been there then you dont know exactly how you would feel or what you would do in that situation,sometimes "life expierences" teach you more than a book can. So to these people who have read a book or went to college to be counselers, if you havent lived it you still dont fully understand it, you may know big words and technical terms for everything but when it comes to street smarts and the school of life you havent a clue about what's going on.
And as far as your spine and logic comment that's a load of crap, if I ever heard it, sometimes these women stay because the sick twisted abuser threaten their children or other members of their family,and most of the abusers would carry through with their threats just to show that they can do it and they do have control over the situation. And there's lot's of other situations that could make a person stay to but I wont bother to explain them to you because it seems you already know everything.

This comment is to Logan, I forgot to mention your comment about walking in her shoes comment I made being nonsense.
Well if it is nonsense then can you tell me why the WVDOC teaches Officers, that they dont understand and not to tell a prisoner that they do unless they have actually been in their shoes?
Are you right over the WVDOC? Just curious.

letha wrote:

<quoted text>
you are correct women should not let fear control them BUT try to tell a woman who under the control of fear that her abuser brainwashed her into believing she has nobody and no where to go nobody will have her etc. It's not the same as protecting yourself against someone else.
We say we can do this or do that but when the time comes we are not very brave against our abuser.

I couldnt agree with you more.
I think Logan needs a dose of reality, you cant read a book and expect to know how to handle an abuse situation.

funlovindi wrote:

<quoted text>
I know it's hard to understand the fear these women feel, it's like nothing you can comprehend unless you've been there. And honestly the law does try but it doesn't matter if they get a restraining warrant the guys don't obey them, they feel the woman is theirs to do with as they want. Yes, we have all seen "the burning bed" we have seen others but those just show some of the things these women go through. There was a movie (true story) on about a woman that was beaten & abused by her husband, she did all the right things we're suppose to do but in the end, no amount of police calls helped her, he beat her almost to death in front of a police officer, neighbors and her child and nothing was done to help her. So don't judge too quick unless you have walked in one of these women shoes.

Thank you very much! I agree with everything you said but one thing, it depends on where you live if the police will actually help you or not, theres alot of cases where the police will actually tell you he has to do somthing before they can take a DVP.
By the time he does somthing it may be to late.

What you need is to realize that you don't have an edge on me because you're supposedly a corrections officer. That gives you no special understanding; all it means is you're in a position to treat an individual however you see fit because you have the power to do so. I've seen some of the West Virginia correction officers in action, and I can't say I was impressed with their violence and discrimination.

As for life experiences, I believe I've gained more that sufficient knowledge in that area; and for street smarts, I, too, am well experienced in that field. If all you know about life is what you learned from being a corrections officer, your knowledge is too limited for you to tell me to "get a dose of reality".

You can excuse the abused for allowing themselves and their children to be abused but I don't. If a woman is so asinine as to let a man repeatedly beat her and her children, she doesn't have my sympathy. If she doesn't know how to walk away and protect her children and herself, she has more than just the problem of abuse; she lacks intelligence.

As for my knowing everything, I apparently know more than you, Ms. Einstein. Btw, I am a former counselor.

I disagree wrote:

<quoted text>What you need honey is a dose of reality, I'm a correctional Officer, and one of the first things you are taught by WVDOC is to never tell a prisoner "You Understand" because if you havent walked in their shoes then you dont understand!
The same goes for the school of life, if you havent been there then you dont know exactly how you would feel or what you would do in that situation,sometimes "life expierences" teach you more than a book can. So to these people who have read a book or went to college to be counselers, if you havent lived it you still dont fully understand it, you may know big words and technical terms for everything but when it comes to street smarts and the school of life you havent a clue about what's going on.
And as far as your spine and logic comment that's a load of crap, if I ever heard it, sometimes these women stay because the sick twisted abuser threaten their children or other members of their family,and most of the abusers would carry through with their threats just to show that they can do it and they do have control over the situation. And there's lot's of other situations that could make a person stay to but I wont bother to explain them to you because it seems you already know everything.