Barbers angry at a West St. Paul cosmetology shop billing itself as barbershop

Saint Paul wrote:

<quoted text>Barbers train through out school cutting on live people, cosmetologest's train by putting on hair color and cutting hair on dolls. They do real practice while ther're at great clips. Good luck.

MY cosmetologists go to school full-time for a year, which costs them $10,000, EXCLUDING all the equipment and supplies they must purchase. They start out on the doll heads, but then they do practice on people, under very tight supervision by experienced cosmetologists/trainers. I went to the Horst School (Aveda Institute) for highlights and they were amazing.

I won't go to any cheap, chain place. My haircut now costs $50 and that trip to the salon is worth every penny. Even when I'm growing out my hair, she cuts it in a way that it looks great for several months until I go in again.

Cosmetologist do a GREAT job! No one is saying they don't. The fact is there are 21 beauty operators for every barber in the state... Let the Barbers be BARBERS and the beauty operators be beauty operators and CALL THEM WHAT THEY ARE!! Barbers need to contact the State barber Board and start paying attention to what is going on in the industry. We need to attend board meetings, file more complaints and maybe even get another union going, like we had in the 70's.If the trend continues of men going to salons, we will have no industry left to defend. This is the world's second oldest profession, and we need to uphold the integrity and tradition of our BARBER shops!

Mollie is very very JUICY!!!!!!

FrankL wrote:

<quoted text>
Guess what, most of us don't care! We are talking about a haircut. If we don't like the way it looks, nature will take care of the error in a few weeks. This is a regulation in search of a problem.

Trust us, for the most of you that 'don't care', We barbers can tell.

I just read all the crap from people who should just keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about. Shut up! Read and learn.
There is a huge difference between a Barber and a Cosmo starting with the school.
If these people wanted to call them selves Barbers they could have chosen Barber school.
Are they ashamed to call it a Cosmo shop? Because men want Barbers.
I have never heard of a Barber calling themselves a "Cosmo for ladies" offering styles for real women in an old fashioned Beauty shop. Oh, and without old fashioned Cosmos. Read between the lines.
By the way, it's a law, like it or not
if you break the law, you have to be held accountable. Period.

First off as relating to barbershop vs salon and who can use what symbol:

Barbers can use the barber pole because we were once barber-surgeons and its part of our history just as you family crest or the medical fields symbol. We earned it. Shaving is a procedure that deserves respect as we are using a straight edge that can cut your ear off, nose, etc. I personally had over 600 hours of training just on the straight edge before i could graduate school. We own the symbol. As far as salon It only means a place to get you hair done by definition and we do hair.

Barber pole definition:

The modern barber pole originated in the days when bloodletting was one of the principal duties of the barber. The two spiral ribbons painted around the pole represent the two long bandages, one twisted around the arm before bleeding, and the other used to bind is afterward. Originally, when not in use, the pole with a bandage wound around it, so that both might be together when needed, was hung at the door as a sign. But later, for convenience, instead of hanging out the original pole, another one was painted in imitation of it and given a permanent place on the outside of the shop. This was the beginning of the modern barber pole.

For starters Barbers back in the early 1900's added cosmetic application to the list of education at a. b. moler barber college in chicago.

Today on their site it has this to say about cosmetologist wanting to become a barber.

Quote:

Upgrade from Cosmetologist to Barber License

If a licensed cosmetologist wishes to become a licensed barber, he or she shall have successfully completed the one thousand six hundred (1600) hour cosmetology training course, or shall possess a current license as a cosmetologist.

Before such person is permitted to take the barber practical and written Board examination, he or she shall have successfully completed a four hundred (400) hour barber crossover course.

Yes it says upgrade. Shaving is no joke, you can sever arteries, spread disease, disfigure, and even kill someone. Those of you who are not in our business and havent had the training do not realise what these regs are for. A rusty razor causes tetinous and things like ring worm, hep, hiv, etc can be epedimics without them. Think about how many people who have been in your haircutting cape that person just put on you without a neck strip. Every person since it was washed, there skin and its disease and disorders are now on your sweaty neck. Do not take for granted our training.

Barbers learn chemical services, haircutting(men and womens), Shaving with a straight razor(shaving someone else is totally differant then yourself), and massage above the neck as well as facial treatments.

We dont do nails because well it has nothing to do with your hair. We are also trained with clippers not using gaurds at all as well as point cutting, razor cutting, etc.

Before commenting on this topic please do your research.

FrankL wrote:

<quoted text>
Guess what, most of us don't care! We are talking about a haircut. If we don't like the way it looks, nature will take care of the error in a few weeks. This is a regulation in search of a problem.

If you dont care, why are you posting on this debate?

Secondly its not just a haircut issue. We pay lots of money for schooling and 2 years of our life learning a trade to be licensed as Barbers.
Forget the fact that barbers started the industry, we have an eqyptian god named for our trade mer If your a professional in your field or went to college for nything i would expect you to understand that. Would you want someone to open up next to you doing what you do who never had the training or paid the dues? By falsly advertising they do things the "Barber way" Anything they do will be considered by there customers as "barbers did it" we get the bad press if a shave happens in there and someone gets hurt.

Our professions history says we deserve some respect as well does our regs and education requirements. Here is a history lesson for you just a small part of it:

Maybe these hands, engraved in the walls of this cave 20,000 years ago, have been the first to cut human hair, or gave it another shape different than the natural. The art of cutting or grooming hair, is, udoubtedly, one of the most ancient arts in the history of mankind.

In the early Paleolithic societies, those who cut the hair were the ones with the highest authority among all the social classes. It was believed that into the hair dwelled the people's soul, so the hair was the way that thoughts were expressed in a physic form. To cut the hair was a way to remove accumulated evil esence and to renew energies. So the task was entrusted to the wisest, the priests.

There were found razors made of sharp stones, from the Bronze Age, 3,500 years old, in excavations in Egypt.

Between the Old Egyptians, barbers were the more distinguished and respected people. In the tomb Nº 45, in the Lower Cemetery of Thebes, there was found a statuette 19 inches high, from the 18th. Dynasty or maybe older. Which means around 3,300 years old. The figure represents the barber Meryma'at. He was responsible of shaving the Amun Temple priests. It was a rite accomplished every three days, and consisted in shaving them their entire bodies, included the face and the head. Old Egyptians believed that it was a contribution to purify the sacerdotal function. This small statue, in which Meryma'at wears a kilt with many pleats and a wig adorning his head, shows the relevance that barbers had into the Amun's temple, and the high category of their position

lola wrote:

St. Paul if your a a barber get off your high horse and know what your talking about. Cosmetologist are not trained on "dolls" and not everyone who works at Great clips is ther on a learning basis, if your so high and migthy than this shouldn't be an issue to you your books are full everyday if not than your just jealious and worried you won't be able to pay your bills at the end of the day when the consumer chooses not to sit in your chair. Don't misrepresent and entire industry!

Can you cut a Classic Men's Taper as pursuant to barbering where at a 45% angle from nothing with only your clippers(no gaurd) and a taper comb? Can you then blend a classic 1940's mens tapered pompadour? Can you do a fade without a gaurd or better yet a straight razor fade? Can you do a stacked bob without thinning shears? Can you perform a shave on someones face baby smooth in any direction without nicking, cutting, or scratching there face and have them fall asleep while your taking a straight razor across their face? Then Shut you mouth. Both cosmetology and Barbering learn to do perms, color, and any chemical service as well as men and womens hair. But how much training you have on clipper cutting? shaves? We have just as much training on womens hair as you do btw. I hate elite Cosmetologist who look down at the barber industry. Makes me sick. Theres good in both and some Cosmotologist have extra training in clipper cutting. I have had the pleasure of working with and meeting great cosmetologist that are industry ldr's and they respect us for what we do. I have trained some of them on clipper cutting and shaving.

Question: How relevant is the ability to "blend a classic 1940's mens tapered pompadour"?

Answer: Not very.

AngelaMN wrote:

Question: How relevant is the ability to "blend a classic 1940's mens tapered pompadour"?
Answer: Not very.

You are a very homely woman.

I found this on google looking to see if anyone else is frustrated with the barbering industry. I am from California and I work in a freshly started barber shop extension of a salon. I come from three generations of barbers, my family owns barber shops all over the bay area. I grew up in it. I saw and heard of how the barbering industry fell apart during the 70s with men choosing to go to unisex salons and by all means, it is completely understandable that the fashions at that time until now have been more salon influenced but it dramatically slumped our industry for three decades. Honestly I can cut a person's hair that is shoulder length but my cosmotologist friend is far more ancanced at the texture and thinning techniques that would make that person far more happy with their experience, something I chose this location for specifically, to learn! This industry has made a comeback and it hurts to see that when it does the cosmetology industry wants to get in on it without truly knowing true barber techniques and traditional styles and history made them popular again. The clipper over comb technique is nearly completely vacant in my area and is something that can truly make a haircut flow. Taper IS important. I believe when a business uses the label of barber to attract clients they should really stand for what that represents even with other hair education which is a specialist in men's grooming. After talking to my cosmo friends an getting insight on what they learned in their school it is similar to what we as barbers learned in women's hair which is minimal at best. The industry nearly died and it is making a revival because of classic men's fashions so with that said (probably too much!) it is insulting to anyone who stuck with the industry through its rough patch to see a flourishing industry like cosmetology take the few things we have to hold on to, like our title! It wouldn't be very cool for barbers to do cheaper simplified haircuts on women and claim your specialize in women's hair. It takes education! Thank you soap box.:)