Deadlier weapons triggered arms raids

I'm not impressed, this author couldn't even come up with good examples of firearm violations to support his case.

Take what he says about the recent raid, "semiautomatic rifles, high-caliber guns and ammunition for AK-47s." were siezed, so nothing he mentioned was illegal, even though I'm sure the police had a good reason to raid the houses. If the occupants were felons who weren't suppose to own guns what has that got to do with the completly legal guns and bullets. In addition calling bullets that can be used in lots of very legal guns, "ammunition for AK-47s" as though that's the only used for it is equally misleading.

Couldn't they find anyone with real knowledge of what 's legal and what's not to report on the recent raids? Perhaps the author did know why they really were doing all these raids, but I suspect he was just more interested in banning all guns because their evil, than he was in reporting the truth.

There are millions of guns in LA that never make the news because they are owned by respinsible people who use them for fun, sport and protection, why make it look like thier all terrible?

guns don't kill
people do.
guns help shape this country
now the government wants to talk them away so that only the BAD guys have them
now that makes sense
thanks G-D we have people with brains in high places.
NOT

Our government and many of our politicians are conspiring to turn public opinion against gun owners by blaiming them for everyhting under the sun. They even resort to telling outright lies to acheve that end. Heere's another example, go see:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/200...

Here many of our most prominent politicians like Hillary and Boxer spread the lie that 90% of the guns used for crimes come from the US. That's just completly untrue, the real number is about 17%, and many of those guns were exported to Mexicans legally and then later on used by criminals.

Mexican criminals tend to use guns from other countries where the price is cheaper and they willingly sell many types of guns that are banned in the US.

Just another well publicized lie told by people who want to take our guns from us.

Dear Ms. Doyle,
I am used to the inability of anyone in the media, or anyone from the various “Ban the Gun” groups, to distinguish between fully automatic machineguns (all real assault weapons are select fire weapons capable of fully automatic fire) and black colored semi auto guns. Real machineguns are used in violent crimes in the single digits on an annual basis nationally, when used at all. All TV crooks have machineguns and spray bullets everywhere. To the general public, a black gun with a pistol grip is a “machinegun” because everything they see on TV says it is, and that’s just the way it is. So what was it that brought my eyes to such a screeching halt as I read your article a few minutes ago? It was these two paragraphs:
”Authorities have noticed an increase in high caliber(!?)weapons in Los Angeles. One of the most startling incidents was when a Fabrique National 57, an assault pistol used to kill big game, was found, etc…".
“You use it on large lions, tigers and bears,” said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore, commander of the Valley Bureau”.
This is so wrong in SO many areas that I just had to write you.
1.There is no such thing as an assault pistol. I won’t go into all the reasons the term is an oxy-moron.
2.I am assuming he is referring to an FN FiveseveN pistol. The FiveseveN refers to the diameter of the bullet it shoots, 5.7 millimeter, or .22 caliber. I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but .22’s are universally considered to be “Small” caliber. The pistol is a standard looking and operating, polymer frame, semi auto that is functionally and appearance wise no different than any other pistol of this type, i.e.’ Glock, etc.
3.Since we are constantly being bombarded with the message that “Assault weapons have no sporting purpose, they are just designed to kill people.” how do we have an assault pistol designed to kill “large lions, etc.?”
4.The correct designation of the cartridge is 5.7 x 27 FN. The 27 refers to the length of the case in millimeters and as such, is just over 1” long. The case is a bottleneck whose largest diameter is less than .32 caliber. As you can see, small bullet, small case. The cartridge has about one third the muzzle energy of the 5.56 NATO cartridge fired in the M-16 rifle by our military. In the civilian world, the same cartridge, called a .223 Remington, is considered a medium range (< 250 yards) varmint cartridge. This means ground squirrels, prairie dogs, woodchucks, etc. Are you getting the picture here? A cartridge with 3 times the power of the 5.7 x 28 is used for varmints, a type of game not generally considered to be in the same class as “large lions, etc.”.22 caliber rifles, no matter how big the cartridge case they use (which determines how much powder is behind them, and thus, pretty much, their power), are illegal (too small) for deer hunting in most places in the US. Africa’s dangerous game minimum legal caliber rifle is, in most places, a .375 H&H Magnum. This cartridge generates ~ 20 times the energy of the puny 5.7. In energy, the 5.7 falls at the low end of 9mm Parabellum and the high end of the .38 Special. Again, LIONS?????
5.Our esteemed Deputy Chief apparently thinks his service pistol is entirely adequate for hunting “large lions, etc., and thus probably hunts rhino with a switch, or needs have his medication changed (or fire the ignoramus who gave him this info).
6.This information that I have given you is also available at the following websites:
http://pun.org/josh/archives/2005/01/fn-57-pi... ; http://www.gundigest.com/article/FN5.7_PartTw...
We have just been exposed to too much deliberate disinformation over the years. In the immortal words of Molly to Fibber McGee,“It just ain’t so McGee!”

Jack Landis
Technical Services Manager &
GunTech Editor
American Gunsmithing Institute

Dear Ms. Doyle,
I am used to the inability of anyone in the media, or anyone from the various “Ban the Gun” groups, to distinguish between fully automatic machineguns (all real assault weapons are select fire weapons capable of fully automatic fire) and black colored semi auto guns. Real machineguns are used in violent crimes in the single digits on an annual basis nationally, when used at all. All TV crooks have machineguns and spray bullets everywhere. To the general public, a black gun with a pistol grip is a “machinegun” because everything they see on TV says it is, and that’s just the way it is. So what was it that brought my eyes to such a screeching halt as I read your article a few minutes ago? It was these two paragraphs:
”Authorities have noticed an increase in high caliber(!?)weapons in Los Angeles. One of the most startling incidents was when a Fabrique National 57, an assault pistol used to kill big game, was found, etc…".
“You use it on large lions, tigers and bears,” said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore, commander of the Valley Bureau”.
This is so wrong in SO many areas that I just had to write you.
1.There is no such thing as an assault pistol. I won’t go into all the reasons the term is an oxy-moron.
2.I am assuming he is referring to an FN FiveseveN pistol. The FiveseveN refers to the diameter of the bullet it shoots, 5.7 millimeter, or .22 caliber. I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but .22’s are universally considered to be “Small” caliber. The pistol is a standard looking and operating, polymer frame, semi auto that is functionally and appearance wise no different than any other pistol of this type, i.e.’ Glock, etc.
3.Since we are constantly being bombarded with the message that “Assault weapons have no sporting purpose, they are just designed to kill people.” how do we have an assault pistol designed to kill “large lions, etc.?”
4.The correct designation of the cartridge is 5.7 x 27 FN. The 27 refers to the length of the case in millimeters and as such, is just over 1” long. The case is a bottleneck whose largest diameter is less than .32 caliber. As you can see, small bullet, small case. The cartridge has about one third the muzzle energy of the 5.56 NATO cartridge fired in the M-16 rifle by our military. In the civilian world, the same cartridge, called a .223 Remington, is considered a medium range (< 250 yards) varmint cartridge. This means ground squirrels, prairie dogs, woodchucks, etc. Are you getting the picture here? A cartridge with 3 times the power of the 5.7 x 28 is used for varmints, a type of game not generally considered to be in the same class as “large lions, etc.”.22 caliber rifles, no matter how big the cartridge case they use (which determines how much powder is behind them, and thus, pretty much, their power), are illegal (too small) for deer hunting in most places in the US. Africa’s dangerous game minimum legal caliber rifle is, in most places, a .375 H&H Magnum. This cartridge generates ~ 20 times the energy of the puny 5.7. In energy, the 5.7 falls at the low end of 9mm Parabellum and the high end of the .38 Special. Again, LIONS?????
5.Our esteemed Deputy Chief apparently thinks his service pistol is entirely adequate for hunting “large lions, etc., and thus probably hunts rhino with a switch, or needs have his medication changed (or fire the ignoramus who gave him this info).
6.This information that I have given you is also available at the following websites:
http://pun.org/josh/archives/2005/01/fn-57-pi... ; http://www.gundigest.com/article/FN5.7_PartTw...
We have just been exposed to too much deliberate disinformation over the years. In the immortal words of Molly to Fibber McGee,“It just ain’t so McGee!”
Respectfully,
Jack Landis
Technical Services Manager &
GunTech Editor
American Gunsmithing Institute

So, deadly weapons are ONE THING, but "deadlier" wepons are a DIFFRENT STORY?

Boy the ATF and the LAPD must be really talk to this rocket scientist about guns!!! while most of the country has junk the assault weapon laws and for good reason, it didn't work and never will ...

Jack Landis, thanky ou for providing such a detailed response, I just wish I the reporters who write the dribble like the article we are responding about cared enough to talk to one of us before they spew so much misinformation.
Unfortunately I think they do know their spewing misinformation, and that's there intened purpose, even though I doubt they know most of the details you mentioned.
Although I applaud you for listing your real identity, I also think you should consider an alias in the future. Not everyone who participates in these forums fights fair, and I have learned that it can be very time consuming, if not downright uncomfortable to have people harrassing you because they disagree with your opinion.
It's nice to see that I'm not the only shooter out there, and with all the serious gun shops disappearing so fast, I'm afraid people like us who reload are a dying breed. I am presuming that that's where you got much of your intimate knowledge of the bullets.

CJH wrote:

So, deadly weapons are ONE THING, but "deadlier" wepons are a DIFFRENT STORY?

No, but since the accuracy of statements apparently means nothing to you,how is it even possible to hold a rational discussion?

CJH wrote:

So, deadly weapons are ONE THING, but "deadlier" wepons are a DIFFRENT STORY?

So where do you stop? Knives are weapons too and you can buy them at the 99cent store. Do you keep all the ones you own locked up so that no one could get hold of them and use them to commit a crime?

Some knives are illegal to own around here, if I call yours cheap throw aways, would you get rid of them?

Do you even know enough about guns to understand why people who do are upset about the gross inaccuracies the author included in his so called journalistic report; or are you just so anti gun that you just don't care?

as an FYI, the 5.7 pistol is roughly .22 caliber, and the round and both weapon systems designed around it have been ROUNDLY criticized for its' lacking performance.

there are lots of cartridges that are used for large and dangerous game. the 5.7X28 is NOT one of them, and anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar.

i guess i should have read the comments first. Mr. Landis addressed the issues already.

This was about the most inaccurate and pure anti-2nd Amendment hate speech I have read in awhile, which is a feat because it seems guns and gun owners are being alienated against more and more each day.

Jack did an absolutely fantastic job listing the various reasons this report fails heavily. However, since we are only posting online, and comments aren't always visible to readers, more people will read this article and take it all as fact, when it is far from fact.

Reporters/Journalists know this, so they can claim just about anything they want in an article and they know people will take it as fact. This is just another hit piece against those of us who understand and appreciate the Second Amendment.

The FN five Seven is a SMALL caliber pistol that fires a round similar to 22caliber rimfire...which is used to hunt squirrels, rabbits, and other very small game. Hunting "large lions, tigers and bears" with a tiny cartridge is suicide. The 5.7mm cartridge has such poor terminal ballistics it's not even an authorized sidearm for LE agencies.

My point in all this is to draw attention to the fact that the pistol in this article was demonized, instead of those pulling the trigger. How many of these fine drug dealers were here legally? How many were repeat violent offenders?

LAPD deputy chief Moore should concentrate on sending perps back to Mexico and/or putting them away for good. God knows he doesn't have a shot at being a firearms expert.

Oh wow, another uninformed, inaccurate, biased hit piece from an LA Journalist. Color me surprised. Not!

Do they even teach the researching of facts at Journalism school any more? Or is your word processor just set up to spew "assault weapon", "Deadly", "AK47", "high-caliber guns", and "assault pistol" along with other meme's from the Brady Bunch and other criminal protection groups?

Perhaps we need background checks for every article published by a journalist, just like you need a background check to purchase a gun in CA? You would definitely fail the check.

Let's also have a 10-day waiting period on publishing so that you can "cool off".

And you wonder why print media is dying?
*sigh*

I didn't know Texas was nearby to California.

Nor did I know that a magazine had a caliber, much less a high one.

Besides all of the idiotic sensationalistic misinformation in this article it leaves me with one conclusion that Susan Doyle completely failed to mention: LAPD appears to be doing a good job ENFORCING THE LAWS THERE ALREADY ARE. Getting guns out of the hands of convicted felons and shutting down ILLEGAL gun dealers.

Susan, how do you get away with publishing poorly researched information?

1) The FN57 is a relatively weak pistol that is barely suitable for human targets let alone large game. There is absolutely nothing remarkable about it compared to any other pistol.

2) It is not even close to being a high caliber pistol. It would be much more accurately described as not even a medium caliber weapon but rather a low caliber weapon. Caliber is a quantifiable characteristic to describe the inside diameter of a barrel or outside diameter of the bullet. It is not something you put "High" in front of to sensationalize your story.

3) It is not an "Assault" pistol. If there ever was such a thing, this pistol would certainly not qualify. It is just an ordinary semi-automatic autoloading pistol. Once again, assault weapons are a defined class of weapons with select fire capabilities. This pistol is not a select fire weapon and your usage of the term is both unresearched and sensational.

Stick the facts Susan, you'll be a more responsible journalist that way. If don't know something, do some research first before just writing down your assumptions. Even a quick wikipedia search of this weapon would have given you enough facts to write a reasonably accurate story in the absence of expertise.

The FN 57 is an Assault weapon? Give me a break, will you? The round is nothing more than a .22 rimfire on steroids.

Every time I read some story like this coming out of La-La Land I wonder: Are you people in California really that stupid? "...lions, tigers and bears..", Oh my! How does somebody that ignorant get to be in a position of responsibility? Have you any idea how much the rest of the country laughs at you when somebody like Chief Moore proves his ignorance to the world. We read his words and thank God that we don't live in California where being an ignoramus is promoted and glorified.

And a final word about "Assault Weapons": In1986 production of machine guns for strictly civilian use ended. Anybody that says anything else either doesn't know what they are talking about, like Chief Moore, or they are lying through their teeth. The 1994 "Assault Gun Ban had nothing to do at all with Real World Assault Weapons.

"'You use it on large lions, tigers and bears,' said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore." Gee, you're stupid.

and what kind of weapons were the police using when they raided ?

I was not there, but typically their carbines are M-16 derivatives in .223 (5.56 Nato, same as the military round), handguns would have been Beretta 92's in 9mm, and shotguns generally 870 Remington pumps(although those are being upgraded to newer models) in 12 gauge. All way more powerful than the FN 5.7.