Heros Die For Me

Rich wrote:

I think Mr Floyds claims of "43" kills and service in Vietnam as well as his work for NSA exceeds any embellishment normal people might utilize to inflate their resume.While his actions might well have been justified in the end,considering who he is and what law enforcement knew his history to be,declaring and portraying him as a hero within 24 hours or so showed poor judgement.As to Cpl McKay giving Kenney a wide berth,i was not suggesting that be the policy.What i was suggesting was that considering Kenneys well noted fear of McKay perhaps it would have been prudent to err on the side of caution especially since the infraction was an expired registration.Cpl McKay was the older more experienced man,i assume police have at least some rudimentry training in psychology and can recognize irrational fear when they see it.If Kenney were planning to shoot McKay why would he wait until after he was sprayed?
In my opinion Kenney was mentally unbalanced,McKay was the trained professional and should have recognized the danger associated with that.Would 15 minutes waiting for backup and confronting Kenney at his home been unacceptable? Kenney was obviously wrong in shooting McKay,but McKays own reckless behavior contributed mightily to his untimely demise.

You state kenney had a noted fear of McKay. Could you direct me to anything other than Caleb's statement that Kenney showed any fear. If he had any fear of McKay why would he state he would handle McKay. I also think he stated he hated McKay. There is a big difference between fear and hatred.

Sam Colt wrote:

<quoted text>
You state kenney had a noted fear of McKay. Could you direct me to anything other than Caleb's statement that Kenney showed any fear. If he had any fear of McKay why would he state he would handle McKay. I also think he stated he hated McKay. There is a big difference between fear and hatred.

At the risk of being criticized for answering for Rich, the below statements are quoted from the ABC story 'Tragedy Rips Open Skier Bode Miller's Hometown' written by ANNE-MARIE DORNING dated May 15, 2007 :

"Bill said that his nephew had several run-ins with Cpl. Bruce McKay in the past and that he "wasn't a big fan of authority figures but.… That could describe pretty much everyone around here." Kenney said his nephew was afraid of McKay."

"McKay was a bully with a badge.… He was a rogue cop. Liko was driven to a point where he snapped. This police officer had been tormenting him for three or four years.… Liko was in constant fear."

LvsNH wrote:

<quoted text>
At the risk of being criticized for answering for Rich, the below statements are quoted from the ABC story 'Tragedy Rips Open Skier Bode Miller's Hometown' written by ANNE-MARIE DORNING dated May 15, 2007 :
"Bill said that his nephew had several run-ins with Cpl. Bruce McKay in the past and that he "wasn't a big fan of authority figures but.… That could describe pretty much everyone around here." Kenney said his nephew was afraid of McKay."
"McKay was a bully with a badge.… He was a rogue cop. Liko was driven to a point where he snapped. This police officer had been tormenting him for three or four years.… Liko was in constant fear."

Thank you for clarifying, but it doesn't explain his comment of taking care of McKay. It just throws more questions out there

Thanks for saving me the time of tracking down the additional sources testifying to Kenneys fear of McKay. As to Kenney stating he would"take care of McKay"maybe is was idle talk maybe not we have no way of knowing. What i do know is while ultimately Kenney was responsible for McKays death,McKay made it easy for him by his own actions.His carelessness in approaching a guy he knew was unbalanced,a guy who he knew had a weapon(memo to other officers from McKay)without his vest..His inability or umwillingness to recognize there was more going on in Kenneys head than just a dislike of following rules.If descriptions of Mckay are accurate my analogy would be:The law is the law period, so if i walk up to an intersection and the light is green telling me to walk across and the light is red for motor vehicles telling them to stop and let me cross,and as i begin to cross i see a car barreling towards me instead of stopping i continue walking because "legally"im following the law and the driver of the car is not,i will soon be "dead right" much like McKay was when he exhibited his inflexability in enforcing the law.Therefore in my mind Mckay contributed to his own death.Anyone desirous of being a PO should undergo extensive pyscological testing to better ensure they are suited to responsility that comes with enforcing the law.

kindly excuse my typos,i really do know how to spell,its just time for a new keyboard.

Mind you the uncle Bill Kenney also said this about his nephew:
"He was definitely part of the family, but we all had a little bit of a tenuous relationship with Liko," he told the Concord Monitor. "I consider him a loose cannon, volatile."
"a loose cannon with a bad temper"
"He had a lot of anger"
Bill Kenney was the same uncle who called the police when Liko violated his conditions of his bail agreement.
Cpl Bruce McKay also spoke up on Likos behalf at the court in regard to the 2003 conviction Liko was facing 12 months in jail he only served 15 days.
Liko also threatened his uncle Bill Kenneys wife and a restraining order was obtained, as I recall.
Cpl McKay was a good law enforcement officer it didn't matter if you were the mayor of a community or a rogue kid he treated everyone exactly the same, and that is rare.
Law enforcement officers are sworn to uphold the law, and to serve and protect, NOT kiss someones ass.
Cpl. McKay's mistake was turning his back and trusting Liko Kenney, and he paid the ultimate price for that mistake. He in no way contributed to his own death, no one expects to get shot in the back.
As far as psychological testing for LEO where do you draw the line? Doctors should undergo psychological testing they deal with life and death situations every day.
Civilians before they are accepted into the military.
Military personnel before they are released back into society after serving in combat.
Civilians before they can purchase a firearm.
Motor vehicle operators before they get their license.
Pilots....the list is endless
Liko Kenney was a criminal with a firearm that he should have never been allowed to purchse under 18U.S.C. 422 due to the fact he was a drug user, and he had been convicted of a crime that was punishable with a sentence of 1 year.
If you want to fault someone look at the state trooper who returned the gun to Liko.

no problem with typos we all do it.

If you check out the laws requiring a police officer being certified in NH they require psychological testing, much like any other state.

I just find it unbelievable that McKay knowing full well Kenneys instability put himself in the position that cost him his life.Disgression is part of life,including the law and its enforcement.My father was NYPD for 22 years,I grew up around cops.Regardless of the law being written in black and white its application in many instances is at the disgression of the officer.Thats the reality.You cant treat "everyone"the same,this is a prime example albeit an extreme one of what can happen when you do.If Cpl McKay was indeed a friend of yours im sorry for the loss of your friend and understand your reluctance to find fault with his methods.However i truly believe he was a victim of his own inflexability as well as Kennys intent.Sometimes even cops have to choose their battles and pick their spots.The bottom line to me is Mckay lost his life over an expired registration,what greater good has that served? I believe in the end we will probably just have to agree to disagee.

Sam,I worked in night clubs for many years and was responsible for hiring. Not that this qualifies as psychological testing but it was illuminating for me,whenever i was hasty and hired guys as bouncers who were over-eager to get the job i frequently regretted hiring them.Some of those guys wanted nothing more than to throw their weight around or worse.Consequently if i were hiring i would be wary of anybody wanting to be a cop at any cost.Just a non-scientific thought on my part.I also had interesting experiences with moonlighting cops working for me,so i do have some insight on some of those who are on the job as they describe it.

Rich,No one should be shot in the back because of their methods of performing their duty. He was doing the job he was hired to do, that is the bottom line. I did not know him personally I had met him once or twice when I was working for NH Fish and Game as an OHRV safety instructor.

One could say the same thing about Liko Kenney he lost his life over the same expired registration.

In my opinion the minute anyone puts blame or faults a law enforcement officer for his own death in situations like this it exonerates the police officers killer to a certain degree.Certainly you as a child of a law enforcement officer has a greater insight, you don't shoot a cop under any circumstances, especially in the back.

If I have to find fault honestly I can only fault Cpl. McKay for his mistake in turning his back to Liko Kenney.

Let me be clear,Kenneys family should have seen to his problems with professional help or a boot in the ass,or both. The court should have ordered him held for psychological evaluation.We are all responsible for our own actions or lack thereof in my opinion.Cpl Mckay knowing Kennys disposition should have had his vest on.I do not mean to absolve Kenney of ANY measure of responsibility for McKays murder,but Cpl McKays actions and lack of preparation made it easier for Kenney to accomplish it.Somehow no matter how much i mull it over i keep coming back to my feeling after first hearing about the tragedy.it was almost like the conclusion was pre-ordained those two were like oil and water or as i stated in an earlier posting bleach and ammonia which when mixed releases deadly chlorine gas.My father who is now 84 frequently spouts off what he percieves as the carelessness of cops in Florida where he lives.Part of that is age im sure but he also makes some good arguments about how and why theyre being reckless.I only know what i read and try to make sense of it and try to limit my own prejudices when forming my opinions.My only connection to any of this,having met and becoming friendly with a gentleman from Franconia who was intimately involved with the service for Cpl McKay and who was familiar with him from being a resident.In the course of conversation the subject came up and all he was willing to offer was "he brought a big city mentality with him he was a big gun in a small town"He said it was a shame that it came to what it did.This gentleman did not strike me as someone with an axe to grind and i believed what he said. The older i get the more aware i become of there being more gray areas than black and white.Have a good evening catch you on here again im sure.

Sam Colt wrote:

If you check out the laws requiring a police officer being certified in NH they require psychological testing, much like any other state.

It is a wise thing to do. But, it is also an "unfunded mandate".

I know ..perhaps wrong Topix thread....

This coming Thursday night news 11/19/09 Gregory Floyd on WMUR-TV

Shack wrote:

I know ..perhaps wrong Topix thread....
This coming Thursday night news 11/19/09 Gregory Floyd on WMUR-TV

Now that should be interesting.Will Mr Floyd show up properly medicated and sounding reasonable or will the wild eyed delusional braggart show up? Perhaps a bit of both.It might be like having the old Doublemint Twins on, having two guests in one.Either way im sure nothing of any value will come of it,Floyd is about believable as (sorry for continuing old tv references) Joe Isuzu.

Shack wrote:

I know ..perhaps wrong Topix thread....
This coming Thursday night news 11/19/09 Gregory Floyd on WMUR-TV

You know you could have started a new thread for this.

Perry Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
It is a wise thing to do. But, it is also an "unfunded mandate".

This is true, NH PSTC has decided to enforce other unfunded mandates, example the physical ability testing, which might violate the American With Disability Act. NH PSTC claim to use Cooper's Institute Standards, Using percentile rankings of the Cooper norms for standards is not as defensible. The percentile rankings do not predict the ability to do the job and do not demonstrate criterion validity as well as using absolute cutpoints. Physical ability testing could come back to bite a police department, but shouldn't it be required by the department not a state agency. I agree whole heartedly police officers need to be physically fit, but let us be real 21yr old male police officer is required to do 28 push-ups, a 50 yr old female does not have to do any push-ups. If push-ups are an indicator of being able to do the job of a police officer, why are women over the age of 50 allowed to be police officers. based on that argument the NH PSTC standards are in violation of federal law. Yet they enforce the physical agility testing but not the psychlogical testing.

So why doesn't NH PSTC decide to enforce the law and their policies, nowhere does it say if the police department has enough money they will provide psychological testing before hiring.

Rich wrote:

<quoted text>
Now that should be interesting.Will Mr Floyd show up properly medicated and sounding reasonable or will the wild eyed delusional braggart show up? Perhaps a bit of both.It might be like having the old Doublemint Twins on, having two guests in one.Either way im sure nothing of any value will come of it,Floyd is about believable as (sorry for continuing old tv references) Joe Isuzu.

What is interesting is what I stated from the onset. Nice try "Rich" but as I have said all along Kingcast you're "pretty good" but pretty good isn't good enough. See the following posts that you messed up on.

FIRST:
Kingcast claiming in a post that you are an ex Marine and criminal justice student and will be at the seminar at Bridgewater state.

KingCast wrote:
"Nah Dude Rich is from Maine you delusional freak. He's a former Marine and a criminal justice student, he'll be at the seminar that you're punking out of, jackass".- the Kingcaster

SECOND your own 2 posts:

Rich wrote:

"My father was NYPD for 22 years, I grew up around cops.Regardless of the law being written in black and white its application in many instances is at the disgression of the officer."

Rich wrote:
"My father who is now 84 frequently spouts off what he percieves as the carelessness of cops in Florida where he lives.Part of that is age im sure but he also makes some good arguments about how and why theyre being reckless."

If your father is almost 84 that would put YOU somewhere in your mid 50s - early 60's, by my estimates.

Kingcast Topix gave you the boot so now you are trying to run another scam....like I said you're a poseur, give it up.

Good Grief, King really got under your skin.My posts are all true,i am not acquainted with King,nor am i a student or an ex-Marine. While its true i agree with some of his conclusions concerning the Kenney/McKay tragedy i part ways with him in other matters he posts about.Most importantly I am NOT Chris King.My last post about Mr Floyd is based on the published history of his actions.Unless the media outlets have conspired to hide the true nature of Mr Floyd,i dont see how anyone could disagree with my assessment of him.
Perhaps King is acquainted with a "Rich" from Maine that is a student and an ex-Marine,but its not this Rich.

Rich wrote:

Good Grief, King really got under your skin.My posts are all true,i am not acquainted with King,nor am i a student or an ex-Marine. While its true i agree with some of his conclusions concerning the Kenney/McKay tragedy i part ways with him in other matters he posts about.Most importantly I am NOT Chris King.My last post about Mr Floyd is based on the published history of his actions.Unless the media outlets have conspired to hide the true nature of Mr Floyd,i dont see how anyone could disagree with my assessment of him.
Perhaps King is acquainted with a "Rich" from Maine that is a student and an ex-Marine,but its not this Rich.

King made that statement about wh you "Rich" was in a post immediately after I made my comment about you posting word for word what I had said to King in an emil 2 years ago. This has nothing to do with the contnt of your posts it has to do with you pretending to be someone else, which you have a pattern of doing all the time in here.