Bucks, Montgomery counties resubmit commuter rail plan

It's about time! Bucks & Montgomery Counties are deprived of decent public transportation.

They just need to stop talking about this and get it done already.

Is there really enough demand for this for money to be poured into it? During a recession? I don't know....my feeling is, it will be a long time coming, if ever.

More tax dollars being spent! Just get in your car, and stop spending my hard earned money on ridiculous projects like this. Why should I pay for your commute? Oh how I long for the days of G.W. Bush's fiscal conservancy and low taxes. you libs are killing us...

Good. More Philly for me!

Commuter rail? No. Bucks county residents are mostly well off and won't use it. Why do you think SEPTA dropped the service 28 years ago?

I do support investments in rail. For freight. Get those *)#$@ trucks off of the road. The savings using rail over truck are where the benefit of tax money would come into play.

Additionally, do you want Philly's finest having access to Bucks County?

Septa in their infinite wisdom stopped the rail service to upper bucks and to Newtown just as both communities were experiencing explosive growth. Septa also put as many roadblocks as they could in the way of the company that wanted to put the equivalent of trolleys on the line to Quakertown, until they finally gave up. I noticed the other day that the tracks to Bethlehem have been taken up in Center Valley. This is an example of how the government agencies make really bad decisions. Private enterprise would never make such stupid mistakes. Septa is a complete waste of tax money and should be abandoned and sold.

SEPTA abandoned ALL non-electric powered operations when they opened the center city tunnel to Market East. It wasn't because of a specific lack of patronage.

SEPTA grudgingly runs a railroad, but is more like a bus company.

Anyways, this is a good idea, but it's a shame that it will take 15 months to simply update the document. We're wasting precious time when the new admin has their pockets open.

Republican wrote:

More tax dollars being spent! Just get in your car, and stop spending my hard earned money on ridiculous projects like this. Why should I pay for your commute? Oh how I long for the days of G.W. Bush's fiscal conservancy and low taxes. you libs are killing us...

Rail lines are the first step at bringing consumers to Quakertown to generate tax income. Also, it gives people the opportunity to have access to out of town jobs, which again creates more tax dollars. It's not necessarily even a liberal issue, except for the fact that it's much better for the environment. And Bill Clinton was more fiscally conservative than G.W. Bush.

BadIdea wrote:

Commuter rail? No. Bucks county residents are mostly well off and won't use it. Why do you think SEPTA dropped the service 28 years ago?
I do support investments in rail. For freight. Get those *)#$@ trucks off of the road. The savings using rail over truck are where the benefit of tax money would come into play.
Additionally, do you want Philly's finest having access to Bucks County?

Here's that good ol' Quakertown paranoia and veiled racism!

Jersey Duke wrote:

Septa in their infinite wisdom stopped the rail service to upper bucks and to Newtown just as both communities were experiencing explosive growth. Septa also put as many roadblocks as they could in the way of the company that wanted to put the equivalent of trolleys on the line to Quakertown, until they finally gave up. I noticed the other day that the tracks to Bethlehem have been taken up in Center Valley. This is an example of how the government agencies make really bad decisions. Private enterprise would never make such stupid mistakes. Septa is a complete waste of tax money and should be abandoned and sold.

It's very true that SEPTA needs to be put on notice! They are horribly run, and just like the care companies, way behind the curve. You can't tell me people wouldn't use public transportation if it were available.

Quakertown Smart Guy wrote:

<quoted text>
Rail lines are the first step at bringing consumers to Quakertown to generate tax income. Also, it gives people the opportunity to have access to out of town jobs, which again creates more tax dollars. It's not necessarily even a liberal issue, except for the fact that it's much better for the environment. And Bill Clinton was more fiscally conservative than G.W. Bush.

A prime example of this is the development that began around the rail station and is now suffering. Look what rail COULD do to that...support it!

It's definitely the means for modernization and also allows for Bucks county commuters to have a better connection to employment further south.

Republican wrote:

More tax dollars being spent! Just get in your car, and stop spending my hard earned money on ridiculous projects like this. Why should I pay for your commute? Oh how I long for the days of G.W. Bush's fiscal conservancy and low taxes. you libs are killing us...

yes look at the brilliant fiscal situation we are in now thank you your retarded expresident. he could have stopped it, but the "war" on iraq was more important to him.

Republican wrote:

More tax dollars being spent! Just get in your car, and stop spending my hard earned money on ridiculous projects like this. Why should I pay for your commute? Oh how I long for the days of G.W. Bush's fiscal conservancy and low taxes. you libs are killing us...

With regret I must tell you that if you took your car onto an Interstate Highway last year, then I and every other American helped to subsidize that ride.

Last year the Federal portion of the gas tax failed to cover the outlays from the Highway Trust Fund. The HTF pays the bulk of the costs for maintaining and expanding the Interstate Highway system.

But for an $8 Billion cash infusion last year, the HTF would have gone belly up because the Federal gas tax hasn't been increased in years. So Congress was forced to take $8 Billion of our Federal Income Tax dollars to prop up the HTF.

It's estimated that the HTF will need $9 Billion of our income tax dollars this year and next to stay solvent. That number will jump to $12 Billion come 2011 & 2012, unless Congress raises the Federal gas tax and soon.

By the way, the recent stimulus plan also included billions of dollars more for highways, dollars that didn't come from just those who use the highways, but from every American.

This sounds very nice but I wonder if it will be used? The train used to drop off a couple blocks down from the Q-Mart--it's not near any of the shopping malls or 309. I still hope it works, I loved riding the train.

BadIdea wrote:

Additionally, do you want Philly's finest having access to Bucks County?

Wow....Please define "Philly's finest"...

Alan wrote:

<quoted text>
With regret I must tell you that if you took your car onto an Interstate Highway last year, then I and every other American helped to subsidize that ride.
Last year the Federal portion of the gas tax failed to cover the outlays from the Highway Trust Fund. The HTF pays the bulk of the costs for maintaining and expanding the Interstate Highway system.

But for an $8 Billion cash infusion last year, the HTF would have gone belly up because the Federal gas tax hasn't been increased in years. So Congress was forced to take $8 Billion of our Federal Income Tax dollars to prop up the HTF.
It's estimated that the HTF will need $9 Billion of our income tax dollars this year and next to stay solvent. That number will jump to $12 Billion come 2011 & 2012, unless Congress raises the Federal gas tax and soon.
By the way, the recent stimulus plan also included billions of dollars more for highways, dollars that didn't come from just those who use the highways, but from every American.

Interesting, but tell one thing, how much of the national gas tax, over the last say 30 years, went into mass transit or some other project? I will tell you, billions and billions, check it out. There is not ONE federal program that generates money, where that money is strictly used only for that project. If passenger trains can not product enough money to support them, then let’s say goodbye. What good would it do to bring passenger trains back to Quakertown? With the exception of commuting to and from a job a train to here is useless. As one entry stated, if I bring the train to Quakertown, what good does it do me? There really is not much to see or do in the down town area and to get to the shopping areas, I would have to have a car or taxi. Right now our federal tax money can and should be used for better project.

in town guy wrote:

<quoted text>
Interesting, but tell one thing, how much of the national gas tax, over the last say 30 years, went into mass transit or some other project? I will tell you, billions and billions, check it out.

Over the past 25 years, it's about $200 Billion. I chose the 25 year mark, because it was 1983 when Congress increased the gas tax and devoted about 2.8 cents of the 8 cent increase to the Mass Transit Fund. That money is kept separate from the Highway Trust Fund, which gets the rest of the gas tax monies collected.

The MTF however doesn't just pay for trains, it pays for buses that do run on highways and roads, and other forms of transit too.

in town guy wrote:

<quoted text>There is not ONE federal program that generates money, where that money is strictly used only for that project.

Well in this case that's not really true, since Congress isn't raiding the HTF. They are taking a very small portion of the gas tax and putting it into a different program, the MTF.

However the fact that Congress does often raid Peter to pay Paul is one reason that I don't object to a small portion of the gas tax being devoted to mass transit, since for almost 40 years every gallon of diesel fuel sold to a freight RR or a commuter RR and even Amtrak, was hit with a fuel tax that went right into the HTF.

In affect, we forced the freight RR's to help build the highways that their competition would then use.

in town guy wrote:

<quoted text>If passenger trains can not product enough money to support them, then let’s say goodbye.

Well then by that logic we need to shut down our highways and airlines, since they can't do the same either. All forms of transportation require some form of government subsidy to survive.

in town guy wrote:

<quoted text>What good would it do to bring passenger trains back to Quakertown? With the exception of commuting to and from a job a train to here is useless. As one entry stated, if I bring the train to Quakertown, what good does it do me? There really is not much to see or do in the down town area and to get to the shopping areas, I would have to have a car or taxi. Right now our federal tax money can and should be used for better project.

I agree that there probably wouldn't be a huge demand for reverse commuting to Quakertown, even though there would be some. But that's not the point of this project.

The point of this project is to get commuters to Philly who live in Q-Town off the highways. That means less wear and tear on the highways, more room for local commuters who can't use the train, less traffic jams which can increase response times for emergency vehicles, and less need to widen said highways and roadways.

BadIdea wrote:

Commuter rail? No. Bucks county residents are mostly well off and won't use it. Why do you think SEPTA dropped the service 28 years ago?

You hit the nail on the head. Most of us are NOT going to use rail. Its very inconvenient. Lets say you wanted to go to KOP. You need to take a train to 30 st. station, then rail to that area or a bus. So you'd be looking at 2.5 hours to KOP. Or you could drive in 45 minutes. People need to wake up, today's society does not want rail unless it cuts their commute, and saves them money. Neither will happen with a Quakertown train station.

BCR: My guess is that, perhaps, older residents may not mind the half hour or so ride from Quakertown to Doylestown via rail. K of P is not the only area worthy of a visit.