The Rock Church

I just watched the FAQ message online at http://irockdou.com/ regarding alcahol. I understand the the pastor has received a lot of flack over his message by saying that the Bible doesnt directly condemn having a drink, he stated that it is more of a Tradition issue than a Bible issue. I would like to say Thank You Billy Riner for having the guts to tell the truth in an area where churches are so steeped in tradition. No one with any degree of Biblical knowledge can read scripture and say that it comdemns having a drink as a sin. Thanks again Billy i do not envy the backlash your honesty will bring.

So its TRADITIONAL issues?? I suppose, If my dad started a tradition to have affairs, with numerous women, that is suppose to make it right? I suppose you better go back and look in the bible... It plainly quotes numerous scripture about consuming STRONG DRINK. Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.It cannot be any plainer than that. Billy knows better than what he is preaching. He will have to answer for all the people he is leading down the wrong path. I am pretty sure the Southern Baptist Commission where he was ordained will revoke his ordination if they have not already.. It is very sad how people buy into the lies to fit their lifestyle!!

Scott County Dad wrote:

I just watched the FAQ message online at http://irockdou.com/ regarding alcahol. I understand the the pastor has received a lot of flack over his message by saying that the Bible doesnt directly condemn having a drink, he stated that it is more of a Tradition issue than a Bible issue. I would like to say Thank You Billy Riner for having the guts to tell the truth in an area where churches are so steeped in tradition. No one with any degree of Biblical knowledge can read scripture and say that it comdemns having a drink as a sin. Thanks again Billy i do not envy the backlash your honesty will bring.

Not to mention, it is impossible for God to be a tempter James 1:13 If you have ever drank you know that having one/two drinks would be a temptation. Alcohol was used in biblical days to treat infirmities and/or to purify the water(as it was not fit to drink from the ground), or for pain. It was, however, highly diluted. Something like 20:1. Drinking strong wine was disapproved. Also, one must consider the impact on your testimony if others saw you drinking. You may not be an alcoholic, but someone who see's you could be. You could be the reason they decide it's okay to have a drink. The beer ads always show the best case of alcohol. It's never the drunk begging for change on the street.

So T-Total to be clear, alcahol is OK if it is used to purify water, and as long as its diluted, that makes sense. so what percentage is ok?

im4 your initial statement about affairs is so ignorant that it compeletly eliminates anything that you said after.

Please read your bible and try to undersatdn it.

Scott County Dad wrote:

So T-Total to be clear, alcahol is OK if it is used to purify water, and as long as its diluted, that makes sense. so what percentage is ok?
im4 your initial statement about affairs is so ignorant that it compeletly eliminates anything that you said after.
Please read your bible and try to undersatdn it.

I'm not saying its ok for those purposes now. I'm simply stating the historical facts of its uses in biblical times. In those days it was a necessity. Remember that in those days, there were no pain meds for surgeries. Today we have anesthesia. Also the water drank from the ground would make you sick (stomach illness). It was diluted to a point that you would get full before you would ever get effects from the alcohol content. If you want to try it take a gallon of muddy water and pour a 3oz shot of wine in it. Drink the entire gallon and see how you feel. If you are drunk, I guess I was wrong.

Also, on a side note....The wine in that day had nowhere near the alcohol content, in its purest forms, as todays wine. I hope this clears it up. And please, don't make comments like "know your bible." What good does a statement like that do? I guess I could say the same.

Again, even if all those facts are bogus. I still would not drink because of the testimony that I must protect.

Blessings!

Also,

2 things will never happen to me:

1. DUI

2. Alcoholism and all of its negative side effects

t-total my point is God is sovereign and unchanging, you cannot say well it was ok then but not now, I to have never had a DUI or am i an alcaholic, i do have wine with dinner occcasionally and sometimes even a beer, and while my comment may have been coarse think if you study the Word you will see the turth of the matter.

Luke 7:33-34 - God the Son drank wine and was accused of being a drunk
John 2:1-11 - Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine which was drunk at the wedding at Cana.
1 Tim. 5:23 - Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments.
Gen. 27:25 - Isaac brought Jacob wine, and he drank, with God's favor.
Psalm 104:15 - the Psalmist writes that "wine gladdens the heart of a man." God gave us the fruit of the vine to enjoy.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 - "drink your wine with a merry heart, for God approves what you do."
Isaiah 25:6 - God will provide a feast of rich foods and choice wines.
Amos 9:14 - God declares that His people shall plant their vineyards and drink their wine.
Zech. 10:7 - God says that when He saves His people, their hearts shall be glad as with wine.

mee wrote:

Luke 7:33-34 - God the Son drank wine and was accused of being a drunk
John 2:1-11 - Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine which was drunk at the wedding at Cana.
1 Tim. 5:23 - Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments.
Gen. 27:25 - Isaac brought Jacob wine, and he drank, with God's favor.
Psalm 104:15 - the Psalmist writes that "wine gladdens the heart of a man." God gave us the fruit of the vine to enjoy.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 - "drink your wine with a merry heart, for God approves what you do."
Isaiah 25:6 - God will provide a feast of rich foods and choice wines.
Amos 9:14 - God declares that His people shall plant their vineyards and drink their wine.
Zech. 10:7 - God says that when He saves His people, their hearts shall be glad as with wine.

This is one major problem with translating Greek into English. If you pull a concordance, you will find 3 types of wine:

1. Non-fermented. Basically grape juice

2. Diluted (as mentioned earlier)

3. Fermented (strong drink)

All of the verses you refer to do NOT translate to strong drink. Jesus did not turn water into strong drink at Cana. When Jesus filled the pots with wine. It was after they had already run out of wine. Are you saying that Jesus provided more wine so that everyone could get wasted? Not my savior. Again I refer you to James 1:13.

Again...just because the translation says wine does NOT mean it is fermented.

If you want to justify having drinks with dinner, its not hard. But if you are seeking the truth of God's word....dig deeper and study the use of wine in the Bible. If you are truly seeking truth you will find it.

Scott County Dad wrote:

t-total my point is God is sovereign and unchanging, you cannot say well it was ok then but not now, I to have never had a DUI or am i an alcaholic, i do have wine with dinner occcasionally and sometimes even a beer, and while my comment may have been coarse think if you study the Word you will see the turth of the matter.

I am glad to hear that you are not an alcoholic. I pray you stay that way. No drinker ever says, I think I'll become an alcoholic. I am 100% sure I will never be one. Are you?

Yes, God is sovereign. And His word is still relevant. But times and technology has changed. God has blessed us with purified water to drink and medicine to use. If we didn't have those things, I'm sure we would still be doing it the old way.

Please don't use God's word as an excuse to drink. Study, study, study, and you will find that what I am telling you is true. There is nothing positive to be gained from drinking alcohol.

Scott County Dad wrote:

if you study the Word you will see the turth of the matter.

Really? Am I coming off like I haven't studied this subject?

Not sure about studying it, but you definatley do not have a good understanding of the subject thoughout the entire bible. To say that anyone uses Gods Wod as an excuse to drink would indicate that it was worng to have a drink to begin with, i do not have to have an excuse to do something the bible never condemns.

Out of curiosity wht do you think Paul told the Church at Ephisus "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess ...." He said to not get drunk, but he did not say to totally abstain from wine. What is absent is just as important as what is present. Pual also told the church at Phillpi "Let your moderation be known unto all men" I dont have the bible in front of me but i belive he also told teh church at Corrinth not to become drunk on the wine at passover. Cant get drunk on Grape Juice.

By the way if this were such a controversial subject why dont you think Jesus would have just cleansed the water at the wedding rather than making wine. Wine which was fermented.

One other quick note Oinos is what Noah got drunk on and what Jesus made at Cana.

Scott County Dad wrote:

Not sure about studying it, but you definatley do not have a good understanding of the subject thoughout the entire bible. To say that anyone uses Gods Wod as an excuse to drink would indicate that it was worng to have a drink to begin with, i do not have to have an excuse to do something the bible never condemns.
Out of curiosity wht do you think Paul told the Church at Ephisus "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess ...." He said to not get drunk, but he did not say to totally abstain from wine. What is absent is just as important as what is present. Pual also told the church at Phillpi "Let your moderation be known unto all men" I dont have the bible in front of me but i belive he also told teh church at Corrinth not to become drunk on the wine at passover. Cant get drunk on Grape Juice.
By the way if this were such a controversial subject why dont you think Jesus would have just cleansed the water at the wedding rather than making wine. Wine which was fermented.

No offense pal. But you have more spelling errors than a kindergardner on crack. I think somebody is having a little more than a glass with dinner LOL!

Scott County Dad wrote:

Out of curiosity wht do you think Paul told the Church at Ephisus "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess ...."

I am curious. How many glasses of wine can you have before you are drunk? And how do you know how many it takes? You see in order to know that you would have had to have too many and therefore commited a sin. So I guess Jesus should have told us how many was ok. This is immature. Get off the milk people.

Scott County Dad wrote:

.
By the way if this were such a controversial subject why dont you think Jesus would have just cleansed the water at the wedding rather than making wine. Wine which was fermented.

Wrong. It was not fermented. It was grape juice. And the very best and most expensive kind, at that.

I cannot believe that you think Jesus threw a kegger in Cana. It is blasphemy! To think that he would condone a drunk fest. So let me get this straight. They run out of wine (fermented according to you) because they are drinking like fish. And Jesus decides to use His first miracle on getting everyone drunk by filling the vats to the top with more fermented wine. Oh wait...but nobody got drunk. Look man. Do you think Jesus gave wine to people that eventually caused drunkeness. If so, what more can I say.

Real Christians forgive and turn the other cheek. I'm no biblebelt but am a christian "born and raised". NO I don't think god intended us to get drunk. But what about Marijuana? God put it here. Nothing is added by man kind, 0. deaths related to someone using just marijuana unlike dozens related to alcohol "wrecks" "domestic assaults" and a lot of other shi# drunks do.

The tradition in a wedding at the time was to get your guest tipsy on good wine and then plastered off the crap wine. Most wouldn't care that it was not so good wine.

This is why when Jesus turned the wine into great wine the comment was made, you kept the best for last.

Thats your opinion, Thats the problem with the WORLD today! Everyone has to find a justification. Again, Read your BIBLE, It is PLAIN AS DAY!!! Scripture after scripture showing about STRONG DRINK... The BIBLE IS AGAINST it. So I think you may want to check again to see WHO is IGNORANT!!! TRUTH IS TRUTH!!! WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT... I would be safe to say My Bible reads in Proverbs 20:1 Plainly says, It is NOT WISE.... So Who Is IGNORANT?

Scott County Dad wrote:

So T-Total to be clear, alcahol is OK if it is used to purify water, and as long as its diluted, that makes sense. so what percentage is ok?
im4 your initial statement about affairs is so ignorant that it compeletly eliminates anything that you said after.
Please read your bible and try to undersatdn it.

mee wrote:

The tradition in a wedding at the time was to get your guest tipsy on good wine and then plastered off the crap wine. Most wouldn't care that it was not so good wine.
This is why when Jesus turned the wine into great wine the comment was made, you kept the best for last.

So there you have it. You think Jesus got everybody at the wedding "tipsy." Which I guess translates to "intoxicated." This doctrine is so perverted, I don't know where to begin. Bottom line....People will say anything to justify their wreckless behavior. Even if the Bilble did condone it or even encourage it, I would have no part of it. I have seen it destroy too many lives.

As far as marijuana???? Come on....It has long term psychological effects on the brain. You will realize it about 2 years after you quit using it and you come out of the haze.