Missouri child-support law change touches many issues

Just Mom wrote:

<quoted text>You are right Responder, there are dynamics that are not atypical...as the law reads, it lumps all NCP in the same boat. All might just be surprised that most cases are atypical. No one wants to give the NCP the benefit of the doubt. Child support should cease when the child turns 18 or graduates from high school. Again, most NCP & CP will help with college, but should not be forced. You seem to do a lot of "research" what type of support is out there for a child who's Social Security death benefits cease when they turn 18 or graduate from high school, if they choose to attend college? That is my only gripe, Social Security stops, then why shouldn't child support...what makes the child of divorce different from a child who as lost a parent? Are they more special? I have been on all 3 sides of this issue, received CS, child has lost a parent, and paying CS. CS is necessary and should be paid, but only until the child is 18 or graduates from high school. Any help with my question?

The difference is that one is a government sponsored program, as a result of death/disability. Which, by the way, used to continue through college, but that changed because of government overspending that made it impossible. I believe you should talk to the Clintons about that - it helped balance the budget during that administration - I believe, don't quote me on that one.

Child support is not a taxpayer based condition, although it is often times supplemented by the taxpayers with Medicaid and perhaps even a monhtly allotment because there is no rule against village idiots who cannot hold a job making children. That is their right, then it is their right to complain about the miniscule amount that they pay in child support as if it is going to change anyone's world.

I think the point is that if a child is motivated to go to college, the child support should continue until 21 - so long as the child is in college and making passing grades.

I don't understand folks who do not want to contribute to their child's education. You say that it makes them better people to "do it on their own." I say it only causes it to take longer to get through college and uses more money in SLs.

That's my position on the issue. You people are the product, as far as I can tell, of marriage + children - divorce + remarriage + 2nd families. I am saying that what appears obvious on this site is that there are those social dynamics going on that has caused people to put those children in the middle of their feelings and bitterness about the 1st families - especially by the wives of the 2nd marriage/relationship, whatever.

I thinnk these children need some protection from thsoe dynamics, and assistance to college is the least anyone can do for them. Just my position. Yours of course differs, but then so do our parenting styles and experiences. Mine have been positive. I get the sense that many here, because of the 1st family/divorce/second family dynics have different experiences that cause them to react on emotions rather than on love and the best interest of a child.

Responder wrote:

<quoted text>
The difference is that one is a government sponsored program, as a result of death/disability. Which, by the way, used to continue through college, but that changed because of government overspending that made it impossible. I believe you should talk to the Clintons about that - it helped balance the budget during that administration - I believe, don't quote me on that one.
Child support is not a taxpayer based condition, although it is often times supplemented by the taxpayers with Medicaid and perhaps even a monhtly allotment because there is no rule against village idiots who cannot hold a job making children. That is their right, then it is their right to complain about the miniscule amount that they pay in child support as if it is going to change anyone's world.
I think the point is that if a child is motivated to go to college, the child support should continue until 21 - so long as the child is in college and making passing grades.
I don't understand folks who do not want to contribute to their child's education. You say that it makes them better people to "do it on their own." I say it only causes it to take longer to get through college and uses more money in SLs.
That's my position on the issue. You people are the product, as far as I can tell, of marriage + children - divorce + remarriage + 2nd families. I am saying that what appears obvious on this site is that there are those social dynamics going on that has caused people to put those children in the middle of their feelings and bitterness about the 1st families - especially by the wives of the 2nd marriage/relationship, whatever.
I thinnk these children need some protection from thsoe dynamics, and assistance to college is the least anyone can do for them. Just my position. Yours of course differs, but then so do our parenting styles and experiences. Mine have been positive. I get the sense that many here, because of the 1st family/divorce/second family dynics have different experiences that cause them to react on emotions rather than on love and the best interest of a child.

Again, my question for you is one of I need help in finding funding for my child who's father is deceased to help support her thru college. Where do I turn? Should I sue the State of Missouri for discrimination against children of deceased parents? Social Security is government, but the State of Missouri is also making continuing child support a government issue, the State differs from most of the States in the USA. If we must continue paying child support, then any financial help for my daughter from me will be none, as SS stops at age 18. Is that fair to her?

Especially in Missouri, which, of course, is largely rural areas; not to go to college means growing up in one of these small towns where drugs, alcohol, and teenage pregnancy, divorce, and dysfunction are the social soup de jour. Anyone who does not recognize that - to use Hillary Clinton's It Takes a Village - has not noticed that the Village just is not doing well these days; is wearing blinders. Problems that were typical of big cities, then their outlying suburbs have come to roost in rural communities that were once pictures of bread-basket health and clean living. No doubt there have always been some problems in these communities, but certainly not on the sale that we see them today. Methamphetamine has taken an ugly grip on Missouri, and unless we give our children the hope, the vision of a college future, there are predators out there waiting to give them a future of enslavement to a drug dealer's lifestyle.

There are youn rural kids who make a good life for themselves, and who have the wherewithall to do that. They, too, are the exception and not the rule. It is a nice fantasy to believe they are all capable of that. But that's the fantasy, because as each of us look around our Missouri community and even St. Louis, a good long look shows that Missouri is in trouble. And it is not enough to answer, well, so is every other city and town in the country. Every other city and town in the country is not where we are raising our chiildren and grandchildren. We're doing it in Missouri, and in our state there is an industry in exploiting the poor. Do we want to see our children go beyond that exploitation? Or do we want to see them exploited as working poor in factories that live off grants from the government because they're providing minimum wage jobs to our rural area's working poor? When was minimum wage enough to pay the rent, car payment, utilities and put clothes on a child and food on their tables?

I think we should be ashamed of ourselves when we let our egos and jealousies get in the way of a child's optimism, hope, or struggle to go to college. That's my rant.

The only alternatives a child has for attending college are scholarships, grants, and student loans (and parents who help out what they can).

Scholarships and grants should be researched long before the date of attending college. For instance, your child's father died from cancer as I recall. I would look to see what scholarships the American Cancer Society offers. Again, there are achievement milestones that have to be met academically to be the recipient of a grant. That is the consequence of study; you make it your focus and your priority, and you are rewarded. If not, you're on your own and you have to go the route of acquiring SL debt. Many of us - including me - are still paying our SL debt. The difference is that I have the education that affords me the ability to do that.

If the child goes into the medical sciences, there are, at an undergraduate level, numerous grants. Again, these must be applied for at least a year in advace, and reapplied for a year in advance. It is timem consuming and a lot of paperwork, but it can be done. My daughter is a scientist, and every year of her undergraduate education I spent hours reseraching grants and scholarships. The up side is that she performed remarkably well academically and those opportunities for funding were more readily available as a result of her student success.

Does this effect orders of support already in force and stipulated that support is to be paid until college is completed?

Responder, thank you, thank you for the informative posts. Much better reading. To every action, there is a re-action. Most of us here have had something happen (not just 2nd wives, but our husbands too) with either the system or the CP. No reason to dig up those 'dynamics' again. We happen to post here as if it was somewhat like a coffee clutch. People who are in the same situation, people that we can talk to who know what we are going through. My dauthers father died too. He burned to death. No grants for that. She had steady 'B' grades which were not good enough for scholarships. I carry about 1/2 of her loans, she carries the rest. She is learning about value as she consolidates the rest of her loans, studies her credit scores and works towards buying a house. I don't feel that my husbands daughter is learning the same lessons when she gets her $3000 laptop from her mom for HS graduation and goes to Europe this summer. Yes, I'm sure there is some bitterness. If they were still married, my husband would have a say in the price of the laptop, etc. We would like all of the kids to have the same values and learn the lessons that we feel are important. I know that we will always differ in our opinions. You will never change mine, and I will never change yours. Once again, my biggest problem with the system is that 2 married people can agree not to give a dime to their childrens education. That child can 'suffer' 4-5 years through work, loans, grants, etc. without so much as a bag of Romin noodles from his/her family and that is ok.

dexter girl wrote:

Does this effect orders of support already in force and stipulated that support is to be paid until college is completed?

If I am not mistaken, all support stops at 21. The law superceeds any divorce papers. But, I am not a lawyer, but that is what we've been told my ours.

dexter girl wrote:

Does this effect orders of support already in force and stipulated that support is to be paid until college is completed?

The thing about the 21 years of age where child support ceases is because a child who goes from HS to college is usually finishing college at 21 if they're attending full-time. A family court judge has some room for discretion, he can make an exception to the law, especially if an agreement between the parties was stipulated and it was agreed that child support would be paid until college was completed. Those agreements do not normally carry over to graduate school.

The best source for the most up to date and accurate information concerning divorces are your attorneys.

If it wasn't for the child support my daughter received while she was in college, there is no way we could have afforded for her to stay in school. Thank god she graduated last year!

cheesy wrote:

If it wasn't for the child support my daughter received while she was in college, there is no way we could have afforded for her to stay in school. Thank god she graduated last year!

You could have afforded it. You would have had to take out student loans. You just wouldn't have paid for it up front. My daughters father died, social security stopped at 18 and she still went to college. And yes, we are still paying for it.:)

Susan in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
You could have afforded it. You would have had to take out student loans. You just wouldn't have paid for it up front. My daughters father died, social security stopped at 18 and she still went to college. And yes, we are still paying for it.:)

We did take out student loans and yes, we are still paying for it as well, but the child support covered her living expenses which were not covered by the student loans. Considering I had forked over 46K of my savings the first 3 years she was in college...(with no help from her biological father, I might add).... I didn't feel bad at all for requiring him to send her child support to help her out. I think it's the least he could do.

cheesy wrote:

<quoted text>
We did take out student loans and yes, we are still paying for it as well, but the child support covered her living expenses which were not covered by the student loans. Considering I had forked over 46K of my savings the first 3 years she was in college...(with no help from her biological father, I might add).... I didn't feel bad at all for requiring him to send her child support to help her out. I think it's the least he could do.

The least he can do? Did I miss something? Wasn't he paying child support before? Why should he have to pay my parents never did and I made it through college and then graduate school without help.

If this is all bullshit wrote:

<quoted text>
The least he can do? Did I miss something? Wasn't he paying child support before? Why should he have to pay my parents never did and I made it through college and then graduate school without help.

Okay, well, why don't you tell us how easy it was? What is your point? You had it easy? Rough? You had uncaring and uninterested parents? You deserved help and didn't get it?

Did it motivate you with bitterness to success? Did it build your character to achieve success? Are you a homeless loser because of it? Tell us why that should make a difference to anyone. Big deal, your parents did not help you. Are you paying child support?

Susan in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
You could have afforded it. You would have had to take out student loans. You just wouldn't have paid for it up front. My daughters father died, social security stopped at 18 and she still went to college. And yes, we are still paying for it.:)

Susan wrote:
I hate Missouri. Everything about the state. I will never buy Budweiser. I will never vacation in the Ozarks. I will never cheer for the Cardinals and I think Branson is a joke. If I have to add 2 hours of drive time, I will in order not to drive thru Missouri. I will not stop at their restaurants, gas stations, souvenir shops or amusement parks. West Virginia is looking better and better.

cheesy wrote:

<quoted text>
We did take out student loans and yes, we are still paying for it as well, but the child support covered her living expenses which were not covered by the student loans. Considering I had forked over 46K of my savings the first 3 years she was in college...(with no help from her biological father, I might add).... I didn't feel bad at all for requiring him to send her child support to help her out. I think it's the least he could do.

I like you Cheesy! I agree with you.

Responder wrote:

<quoted text>
Okay, well, why don't you tell us how easy it was? What is your point? You had it easy? Rough? You had uncaring and uninterested parents? You deserved help and didn't get it?
Did it motivate you with bitterness to success? Did it build your character to achieve success? Are you a homeless loser because of it? Tell us why that should make a difference to anyone. Big deal, your parents did not help you. Are you paying child support?

Talk about being bitter - that is like the pot calling the kettle black Responder!

Responder wrote:

<quoted text>Susan wrote:
I hate Missouri. Everything about the state. I will never buy Budweiser. I will never vacation in the Ozarks. I will never cheer for the Cardinals and I think Branson is a joke. If I have to add 2 hours of drive time, I will in order not to drive thru Missouri. I will not stop at their restaurants, gas stations, souvenir shops or amusement parks. West Virginia is looking better and better.

Responder what is YOUR point?

Responder wrote:

<quoted text>Susan wrote:
I hate Missouri. Everything about the state. I will never buy Budweiser. I will never vacation in the Ozarks. I will never cheer for the Cardinals and I think Branson is a joke. If I have to add 2 hours of drive time, I will in order not to drive thru Missouri. I will not stop at their restaurants, gas stations, souvenir shops or amusement parks. West Virginia is looking better and better.

I agree with Mom. What are you talking about?

2642nurse2642 wrote:

How many of you on here actually have to fight for your support? I am a single mom of six and have put myself thru college and am continuing my education. CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT is A FRIGGING JOKE.It completely blows my mind how you tend to think just because your child turns 18 then they can handle life all on their own, let's just push them out of the nest. Time to move on. Have you never had to borrow money from your parents when you were older than 18 to fix your car or buy a meal or bag of groceries? If you think your obligation to them stops because they enter draft age then why did you have children? They are a lifelong commitment people, not a trophy for enduring years of marriage. We send them unequipped into a world full of unknowns when they are still learning to be people themselves. Now we have a bunch of butthole politicians telling us when to cut the strings for supporting our children? It's astounding especially since most of you paying support had to be ordered to do so in the first place. How about in the next life you opt to wear a condom or perhaps two to prevent yourselves from obtaining the "parent" sticker. What a sad waste, and we wonder why this Earth and our children are going to hell in a handbasket.

I agree with you!! I live in Mo. and have to fight to get any support from my son's father which now lives in Arkansas. And the sad part is I OFFERED to drop the child support order if he would just put $100.00 a month towards any school supplies, clothes or into a savings account that could not be touched until my son was 21. And he wouldn't even do that. Now that's worthless!! And since he's so far behind it's in the hands of the Prosecuting Attorney's hands and that's a joke too. You don't dare call her because she acts like if you receive $5.00 from him then your doing good. And that there is nothing more that they can do thatn they already are. What a joke!! It infuriates me that they are so much harder on the dad's that really do try to support their child but maybe get a payment behind, than these losers that don't care about their child at all and especially in supporting them!