New infantry leader riles religious-rights group

The promotion is only intended to pad the General's retirement pay. W

I give all respect to our brave troops of the 25th. Infantry (who will now unfortunately have this albatross hung around their necks). And to the good local folks of Wahiawa, too.

Actually, it's the Army that's disrespecting Schofield and the 25th. Because, for a guy whose most recent job was the Commandant of West Point (!!)-- this is the functional equivalent of being exiled to that infamous Army post of "Bumf**k, Egypt".

Call it a "promotion" if you insist, but they're really trying to just hide him under the covers until retirement time.

How can a occupation that is so dangerous with hazard of fatality that could happen at anytime being disciplined. Please let this leader lead. Of course you cannot force anyone to serve God. God does not even force you to love him. But please let this leader have it available for men that know their is a life after this one to have this leadership and please for those that do not want to be apart of it let it be available for them to turn to hopefully before time runs out. Let us be honest with ourselves is there a God that going to return or not.

I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD.
Caslen has failed in his paramount duty to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. He has also defied key aspects of UCMJ. At the very least, he has demonstrated poor judgment. Congress should withhold approval of his appointment.

I find it unsettling that a religious group has taken such strong hold within our military. There not just Christians. Evangelism is a radical wing of Christianity, much like the Talaban is to Islam. There have been other Christians (Catholics for instance) that have had difficult experiences for not playing by the rules of the Evangelists (who's actions do not reflect belief in freedom of religion). I see this as a national security concern and a violation of our Constitution. The military would be better taking a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding religion.

At a minimum this general has shown a lack of good judgement. One wonders if he will be able to keep his religious beliefs separate from his professional duties and responsbilities. It is doubtful based on his past performance.

Wait a second, you are comparing Christianity to the Taliban (a terrorist regime based on radical Islam)?

Here's the difference between the two:

1) The radical Christian would invite you to their home, cook you a nice meal, pray with you and send you home with a nice bible.

2) The radical Muslim would cut your head off, and stick it on a pole.

Where do you get the crazy idea that the two are even REMOTELY comparable?

YouHaveGotToBeKidding wrote:

Wait a second, you are comparing Christianity to the Taliban (a terrorist regime based on radical Islam)?
Here's the difference between the two:
1) The radical Christian would invite you to their home, cook you a nice meal, pray with you and send you home with a nice bible.
2) The radical Muslim would cut your head off, and stick it on a pole.
Where do you get the crazy idea that the two are even REMOTELY comparable?

I'm comparing Evangelism in the realm of Christianity to Taliban in the realnm of Islam - both being the extreme right of their religions.

I've read testimonies and listened to a few on the news about military Evangelists making both physical and professional threats to non-Evangelist soldiers for exercising their freedom of religion. These are soldiers who have voluntarily enlisteed to protect our country.

You don't see this as a problem? Or do you deny the legitimacy of the complaints made by the threatened soldiers?

I've never had a Muslim try to convert me, but I have had several Evangelists knock on my door trying to get me to attend their services.

This was not an issue until recently, but it seems to be an escalating problem and I do find it concerning.

Nice how you avoided my question.

There is a difference between someone knocking on your door to tell you about Jesus and someone who wants to CUT YOUR HEAD off.

Now you're saying that soldiers are being physically threatened by not accepting Jesus, yet you quote no source, just hearsay from some left-wing kook website, probably. I bet they found one solider and coached him on what to say and then called all sorts of attention on it.

I think before you dig in your heels for a debate about religious freedom, you'd best recognize that people are free to evangelize in this country. You need not be concerned about the bake sale at your local community church, you ought to be concerned more about the people who would dismember you for not bowing to their god.

First, I'm being polite, showing respect to the young boys in teh military. I'm not avoiding your question. There are things I could add that are simply not appropriate for this venue, and I'm not interested in arguing about religion. I'm talking about the Constitution of the United States, seperation of church and state, and the right for freedom of religion.

YouHaveGotToBeKidding wrote:

...
Now you're saying that soldiers are being physically threatened by not accepting Jesus, yet you quote no source, just hearsay from some
left-wing kook website, probably. I bet they found one solider and coached him on what to say and then called all sorts of attention on it.
...

Citation #1.

Officers' Roles in Christian Video Are Called Ethics Breach

Josh White, The Washington Post, August 4, 2007

The Defense Department's inspector general has found that four generals and three other military officers improperly participated in a fundraising video for an evangelical Christian group, inappropriately offering support for the religious organization while appearing to operate within the scope of their official government duties, according to a 47-page investigative report.

Citation #2.
militaryreligiousfreedom.org
Please note his political affiliation.

Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is a second generation military man. His son is third generation. His son was harassed for being Jewish by Evangelist officers and lower ranking personnel.... called Jesus killer....

The MRFF plans more lawsuits in coming weeks, says Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, who founded the military watchdog group in 2005. The aim is "to show there is a pattern and practice of constitutionally impermissible promotions of religious beliefs within the Department of Defense."

For Mr. Weinstein – a former Air Force judge advocate and assistant counsel in the Reagan White House – more is involved than isolated cases of discrimination. He charges that several incidents in recent years – and more than 5,000 complaints his group has received from active-duty and retired military personnel – point to a growing willingness inside the military to support a particular brand of Christianity and to permit improper evangelizing in the ranks. More than 95 percent of those complaints come from other Christians, he says.

There's plenty more written about the topic if you choose to do your research.

Your comparison of evangelical christians to taliban shows an appalling lack of understanding about the taliban. Personally, I think the General was clearly out of line. He wore his uniform to an event that was not sactioned by the military and was reprimanded accordingly. People in the military are not to press their beliefs on anyone or to establish an environment that is hostile to others with different beliefs. I just retired after 30 years and I did not see anything that would lead me to compare our military leadership (or civilian leadership for that matter) with the taliban. your comment is not just insulting it demonstrates your ignorance. I have been "boots on the ground" in the stan and I can tell you that the actions of the taliban would curdle your stomach. To compare today's American Warriors with 12th century tribal sociopaths that ran the stan shows that you are watching entirely too much Bill Mahre.

Well Mitch, it seems you and youvegottobekidding have pegged me as a leftist liberal. You're wrong about that, as well as taking my statement out of context, as I've already clarified - so no need to be insulted. I'll leave that as my final word on the subject.

Right, because quoting The Washington Post is something every good liberal does. The Post is one of the most liberal and factless periodicals in America. Go ahead and ask them why their readership has literally fallen off the map over the past 5 years. Trashing Bush isn't journalism. It's an agenda.

As far as citation #2, you quote the same guy who is bringing the lawsuit. Obviously that source is extremely biased. He's the the only evidence there is of this so-called religious misconduct?

You won't win any debate comparing Christians today with the Taliban. You know that by now, don't you?

Finally, "young boys" is not the term I would use to describe our military.

Fighting men and women of the US Armed Forces is a far more respectful and suitable title, not sure where you got "young boys" from, but I think I could take a guess.

I'm with Dennis on this. Mitch and YGTBK are the ones taking the hard line. While it's obviously not to the same DEGREE, there is a similar element of extremism in both Islam and Christianity.

So while it's quite obvious that Evangelicals aren't about to cut my head off, they are typically radical in their attempts to change society and it's laws to their way of thinking, which often involves restrictions of personal freedoms, and an intolerance for people who think differently than they do.

YGTBK, don't be asinine. Altho Dennis did quote the WP, he could have quoted any newspaper that carried the story. And the insinuation about him being a pedophile ("young boys") is simply a low blow; not the mark of an intelligent person able to debate the merits. Stop the name-calling.

Boys - just out of high school. This is not an insult to the good intentions of these kids but they are quite young.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.sht...

Where did I get the terminology "young boys"? http://www.doublegv.com/book.html

So far my critic has only made sarcastic comments, has not provided any supporting data, misinterpreted my statements, made incorrect assumptions about my political affiliation and refuted one of the largest and most respected US newspapers as being too liberal. Not liberal - just mainstream. I guess when you are so far to the right, everyone else is a commie, liberal, or socialist.

But thank you. Every comment you make allows me to find supporting information that confirms my assumptions.

Well said, Dennis, well said.

There's nothing wrong with Christian extremism. What, are you afraid of a bible study??

At least they're not strapping bombs to young kids and women and sending them off to their deaths, which by the way, your precious Taliban did for years.

The American military teaches their troops how to survive. The Taliban and the Islamic extremists teaches their people how to die.

My husband is currently deployed with the 25th. I am proud that he is a soldier and a Christian. He does not push his faith on someone, but does not hide it either. I feel really lucky if my soldier was able to work for someone with good morales and values. Everyone has the right to an opinion, and for that, you can thank a soldier!
May God keep them all safe.

"Anonymous" shows great naivete when they think that Christian extremism is just a bible study. Extremism for many Christian groups includes, among other things, polygamy/forced child marriages (Fundamentalist Mormons); persecutions of gays and lesbians including the picketing of their funerals-- as well as military funerals (Rev. Fred Phelps); codifying their beliefs and morals into freedom-restricting laws (everything from abortion to gay marriage to alcohol prohibition).

Yeah, at least they're not setting off bombs. But you don't need to set off bombs in order to be extreme or radical.

Proud Army Wife has got it right: We should all have the freedom to exercise our beliefs, without pushing them on others, nor having to hide them.

I think the Incan, Mayan, and other indiginous peoples of America would see similarities between the modern islamist Taliban and the "Christians" of their day.

Another great Christian, Francis Xavier, a Jesuit Priest, came, with the firm resolve of uprooting Hinduism from the soil of India and planting Christianity in its place. His sayings and doings have been documented in his numerous biographies. Francis Xavier, wrote back home,

"As soon as I arrived in any heathen village, when all are baptized, I order all the temples of their false gods to be destroyed and all the idols to be broken to pieces. I can give you no idea of the joy I feel in seeing this done."

The Church had a special way of dealing with converted Hindus who were suspected of not observing Christian rites with appropriate rigour and enthusiasm, or even of covertly practicing their old faith:“…the culprits would be tracked down and burnt alive.”

So yeah Christians Taliban same thing. The Christians must be kept from power just like the Taliban and Islamists.

All religious government is evil and prone to oppression, tyranny, torure and suffering.

Dennis wrote:

Boys - just out of high school. This is not an insult to the good intentions of these kids but they are quite young.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.sht...
Where did I get the terminology "young boys"? http://www.doublegv.com/book.html
So far my critic has only made sarcastic comments, has not provided any supporting data, misinterpreted my statements, made incorrect assumptions about my political affiliation and refuted one of the largest and most respected US newspapers as being too liberal. Not liberal - just mainstream. I guess when you are so far to the right, everyone else is a commie, liberal, or socialist.
But thank you. Every comment you make allows me to find supporting information that confirms my assumptions.

I agree this should be looked into, seriously. But you need to relook at your faulty comparison between 'evangelicals' and the Taliban and accept it was not accurate.