Health Bill passes House

jboro_charlie wrote:

Auto insurance is MANDATORY for all drivers in Arkansas.

If you'll read the actual Arkansas Statutes, you'll find that Guest is correct. If people are wealthy enough and can show by bond or otherwise their ability to pay damages in the amounts required by law (minimum liability) they don't have to purchase auto insurance.

I still don't understand the vehement opposition to our government helping to coordinate a way for more people to have access to better healthcare.

If that's what government was doing, there wouldn't be any opposition. The truth is that government is NOT doing that. What government IS doing is taking over health care completely, and mandating that people pay higher taxes to pay for it.

Had such a program been in effect over the past several years, I would not be forced to consider bankruptcy because of medical bills totaling in excess of $50,000. Plus, the physicians, therapists, and laboratories would have been paid for their services rather than having to write them off as a loss. I'm still reading this thread hoping someone can explain why it would have been better for me not seek medical help (I would have died). Enlighten me.

It's unfortunate that you needed medical treatment. However, that was YOUR need, and should be paid for by YOU. You are the one who benefitted, not anyone else. It's not society's responsibility to pay for treatments that benefit you any more than it's society's responsibility to buy a house for me and put gas in my car.

It's too bad that the rugged spirit of individualism upon which this great nation prospered is now dead. We've become a bunch of whining sissies who expect big daddy government to provide for our every need, never realizing that in order to do so, big daddy has to steal from others to give to us. And the ones we're stealing the most from is our future generations.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

Think about it.

America 1st wrote:

<quoted text>
It's unfortunate that you needed medical treatment. However, that was YOUR need, and should be paid for by YOU. You are the one who benefitted, not anyone else. It's not society's responsibility to pay for treatments that benefit you

The dividing factor in the great healthcare reform debate.

jboro_charlie wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course not! Cited for no auto insurance once and it's several hundred dollars fine PLUS a day or two in jail (at least when appearing before Judge Blackman in Jonesboro.) Second time, the fine goes over a thousand, several days in jail, and license is suspended. Third time, license revoked permanently, thousands of dollars fine and up to a year possibly more in jail. Auto insurance is MANDATORY for all drivers in Arkansas. Several people have pointed out that those earning wages at or even somewhat above the federal poverty guideline amounts will have insurance subsidized by the government. I still don't understand the vehement opposition to our government helping to coordinate a way for more people to have access to better healthcare. Had such a program been in effect over the past several years, I would not be forced to consider bankruptcy because of medical bills totaling in excess of $50,000. Plus, the physicians, therapists, and laboratories would have been paid for their services rather than having to write them off as a loss. I'm still reading this thread hoping someone can explain why it would have been better for me not seek medical help (I would have died). Enlighten me.

I lived a number of years in Missouri and I'm still learning the laws here.
In Missouri, you are allowed to post money with the state instead of buying an insurance policy for auto insurance. I presumed you could here, too.

Here's a sample when I posed the question to a search engine:
""Auto insurance laws vary by state. For instance, in Pennsylvania, you are required to have liability insurance (mandatory coverage), and cannot "self-insure" with a bond or any other method. Your state may, however, allow you to post a bond or provide proof of financial ability to pay (although I think very few allow this anymore). Even if you are allowed by law, the next question is whether you should. You are taking a significant financial risk - possibly millions if you are at fault in an accident. Auto insurance is relatively cheap considering the alternative.""

When will the Death Panels open?

Dum Dum wrote:

The dividing factor in the great healthcare reform debate.

Indeed it is, and I continue to hold that it is immoral for government to forcibly take money from some people in order to give it to others whom it deems are more worthy.

America 1st wrote:

<quoted text>
Indeed it is, and I continue to hold that it is immoral for government to forcibly take money from some people in order to give it to others whom it deems are more worthy.

IF there was one shred of truth in what you say, then George Bush would be your worst enemy. YOU are a pure fascist who constantly talks about how terrible it is to take money from the rich and help the poor. But you have yet to complain about this fascism of your nazi christian nut brothers Ronald Reagan and George Bush ! Pretty obvious how YOU have no clue as to WHAT government is !
YOU are NOT qualified to talk about morality, since you are a christian and have NO MORALS.

America 1st wrote:

<quoted text>
Indeed it is, and I continue to hold that it is immoral for government to forcibly take money from some people in order to give it to others whom it deems are more worthy.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

Personally I believe that everyone should have the same level of healthcare. Just because I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and decent insurance does not make me any better than a single mother struggling to feed her kids

Dum Dum wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you to a certain extent.
Personally I believe that everyone should have the same level of healthcare. Just because I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and decent insurance does not make me any better than a single mother struggling to feed her kids

He's going to say that these are choices she made for herself.

It's not.

Not everybody has the same opportunity, the same ability and sometimes things happen that are just beyond our control.

But, even is she was 100% responsible for her own plight, her children are not.

Dum Dum wrote:

Personally I believe that everyone should have the same level of healthcare. Just because I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and decent insurance does not make me any better than a single mother struggling to feed her kids

No one said you're any better, but the line of reasoning that justifies the idea that everyone should have the same level of healthcare must also justify that everyone have the same type of house to live in, the same type of car to drive, the same type of clothes to wear, the same type of food to eat, and on and on.

What you wind up with is a communist nation where each gives according to his ability and each is given according to his need. In the end, everyone lives in poverty, enslaved by their government.

I'd rather have liberty, and the opportunity to work hard and earn a better way of life than my parents were able to give me, and for my children to have an opportunity to work hard and earn a better way of life than what I've been able to give them.

Of course, with freedom comes responsibility. There are too few people in our country today who are willing to take responsibility for themselves. There are far too many who are always looking for someone else to pay their bills for them.

Guest wrote:

He's going to say that these are choices she made for herself.
It's not.
Not everybody has the same opportunity, the same ability and sometimes things happen that are just beyond our control.
But, even is she was 100% responsible for her own plight, her children are not.

Yes, everyone has the same opportunity. The problem is that some people will work hard to succeed while others will not yet they expect government to take away from someone else and give to them.

As far as the hypothetical woman's children, they are her responsiblity and that of the children's father. They are not my responsiblity nor yours, nor are they the responsibility of society as a whole.

Again, it's immoral for government to forcibly take money from one person and give it to another whom it deems is more worthy of having it.

.....

That's the fascist point of view.

Any humans care to explain to nazi boy anti-America1st that you can work as hard as you want to. It has nothing to do with success in this country. But christian delusion boy anti-America1st is never going to back off his constant love of fascism and his hatred of all Americans and humanity.

TheObvious wrote:

.....
That's the fascist point of view.
Any humans care to explain to nazi boy anti-America1st that you can work as hard as you want to. It has nothing to do with success in this country. But christian delusion boy anti-America1st is never going to back off his constant love of fascism and his hatred of all Americans and humanity.

Your repetitive rambling makes it hard for me to even pay attention to you. Surely you could add more to the debate other than name calling

America 1st wrote:

<quoted text>
No one said you're any better, but the line of reasoning that justifies the idea that everyone should have the same level of healthcare must also justify that everyone have the same type of house to live in, the same type of car to drive, the same type of clothes to wear, the same type of food to eat, and on and on.
What you wind up with is a communist nation where each gives according to his ability and each is given according to his need. In the end, everyone lives in poverty, enslaved by their government.
I'd rather have liberty, and the opportunity to work hard and earn a better way of life than my parents were able to give me, and for my children to have an opportunity to work hard and earn a better way of life than what I've been able to give them.
Of course, with freedom comes responsibility. There are too few people in our country today who are willing to take responsibility for themselves. There are far too many who are always looking for someone else to pay their bills for them.

I don't see how healthcare can be compared with housing, transportation and clothes. Basic healthcare is key to a long, hopefully happy and healthfull life. Something we all should be able to enjoy.

Being a hard worker is a must in todays job market. But with so many companys no longer offering health insurance hard work may not be enough. Especially if your trying to provide for a family

I'm very torn on the issue of "who is going to pay for it". Half of me feels healthcare is basic human need. While my other half thinks MY money is a basic Dum Dum need. What does that say about me?

Dum Dum wrote:

<quoted text>
Your repetitive rambling makes it hard for me to even pay attention to you. Surely you could add more to the debate other than name calling

LOL...I don't debate absolute Truth and self-evident facts. America1st does that in every post because he is a christian. So no doubt, I will never add anything to the debates of ignorant fascist christians. The truth will set you free..........if you ever take an interest in Truth.
ALL the rambling comes from you goofballs that ramble through your debates against Truth and self-evident facts....like what the Constitution actually states. duh.....Get back to me after your turn twelve, little buckaroo.

TheObvious wrote:

<quoted text>
LOL...I don't debate absolute Truth and self-evident facts. America1st does that in every post because he is a christian. So no doubt, I will never add anything to the debates of ignorant fascist christians. The truth will set you free..........if you ever take an interest in Truth.
ALL the rambling comes from you goofballs that ramble through your debates against Truth and self-evident facts....like what the Constitution actually states. duh.....Get back to me after your turn twelve, little buckaroo.

What does being a christian, buddist, muslim or any other religion have to do with healthcare? Get back to me after your able to use alittle common sense, old balls.

Dum Dum wrote:

I don't see how healthcare can be compared with housing, transportation and clothes. Basic healthcare is key to a long, hopefully happy and healthfull life. Something we all should be able to enjoy.

I believe that housing, transportation, clothing and food are also keys to a long, happy and healthful life.

My point is that government is not (nor should be) responsible for providing health care to anyone, at least not anymore that it is responsible for providing housing, transportaion, clothing and food. In this country, people are responsible for themselves.

Being a hard worker is a must in todays job market. But with so many companys no longer offering health insurance hard work may not be enough. Especially if your trying to provide for a family
I'm very torn on the issue of "who is going to pay for it". Half of me feels healthcare is basic human need. While my other half thinks MY money is a basic Dum Dum need. What does that say about me?

I think it says that you are a compassionate person. That's good. But, you should be the one to determine to whom you will help with your money, and how much you will give. The problem is that the government makes that choice for you and for me. And, they take far more of our money away than we would otherwise choose to give.

When we consider health care, the essential question is always "who is going to pay for it?" I say that each person should pay for his own medical costs. It's not right for government to force other people to pay for them. Sadly, the house bill will not only rob you and me, it will rob our children and grandchildren, and probably generations after them.

America 1st wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe that housing, transportation, clothing and food are also keys to a long, happy and healthful life.
My point is that government is not (nor should be) responsible for providing health care to anyone, at least not anymore that it is responsible for providing housing, transportaion, clothing and food. In this country, people are responsible for themselves.
<quoted text>
I think it says that you are a compassionate person. That's good. But, you should be the one to determine to whom you will help with your money, and how much you will give. The problem is that the government makes that choice for you and for me. And, they take far more of our money away than we would otherwise choose to give.
When we consider health care, the essential question is always "who is going to pay for it?" I say that each person should pay for his own medical costs. It's not right for government to force other people to pay for them. Sadly, the house bill will not only rob you and me, it will rob our children and grandchildren, and probably generations after them.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on the basic need topic lol

Your right though. It would be nice to pick and chose who, when and how much money I give to others. But that just isn't how things are. Is ther even a country where its people have those kinds of choices?

America 1st wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, everyone has the same opportunity. The problem is that some people will work hard to succeed while others will not yet they expect government to take away from someone else and give to them.
As far as the hypothetical woman's children, they are her responsiblity and that of the children's father. They are not my responsiblity nor yours, nor are they the responsibility of society as a whole.
Again, it's immoral for government to forcibly take money from one person and give it to another whom it deems is more worthy of having it.

Some people have their opportunity handed to them on a silver tray and some couldn't find opportunity if they looked for 100 years.
And, there's millions in between those extremes.
Hard work doesn't always do it and sometimes isn't even required.

Working in the big city once, I had occasion to call the Circuit Court to get some pertinent information on a client.
The court clerk told be I had to wait until her runner returned from lunch because she would have to "go clear across the room" to get what I needed. Those were HER words and I will never forget them.
Just added for an example and for humor.

Dum Dum wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess we'll just agree to disagree on the basic need topic lol
Your right though. It would be nice to pick and chose who, when and how much money I give to others. But that just isn't how things are. Is ther even a country where its people have those kinds of choices?

Not exactly, but there are countries where there are but 2 classes: The very rich and the very poor.

That is what they envision for the United States, with THEM being in the very rich class, of course!

Hopefully, that will never happen.