Mormon past steeped in racism

This is a very nice article that highlights the real diversity of Mormon members. It would be more complete if it clarified two other things: First, that Mormons have reached out to racial minorities from their earliest days as a church, with amission to the Indians in 1830, missionary work in Polynesia in 1844, missionaries in Mexico since the late 1800s, missionaries in Japan since 1901, and so on. Even while the ban on ordination of blacks continued up to 1978, thousands of Tongans, Samoans and other Polynesians every bit as dark skinned as many blacks were baptized and ordained to the priesthood. Additionally, even before 1978, there were black members of the Church, including several families in my downtown Salt Lake City ward where I grew up in the 1950s, and a black soldier whom I helped teach and baptize in Colorado in 1974. When the revelation was announced in 1978, there were already thousands of people in Nigeria and Ghana who were meeting as "Mormons" on their own initiative because they had been converted by reading the Book of Mormon.

Perhaps peolpe need some historical background. Why today do we have Black or mostly Black "Traditional" Christian Churchs? Because whites did not want to worship with Blacks. So blacks were made ministers and permitted only to minister to black churchs. If a black minister was not available the blacks had to stay in a small segregated section of the Church. Now lets look at on of the major reasons that the LDS Church was forced out of Jackson Coounty Missouri in the 1830s. It is found in The Secret Constatution. The LDS Church was inviting free blacks to come to the county and join the LDS CHurch, live amongst them and worship with them. This the citizens of Jackson County could not live with. The LDS printing press was distroyed and the LDS People ordered out of the county. Now lets look at the history of the Country. While many people today believe that Northerners, who made up the vast majority of LDS, wanteed equality for blacks that is false. Most northerners did not want blacks as equal. They infact had a form of slavery themselves. This form was not just for blacks as the south had but was for all poor. It ws called working for the man. A factory owner would supply his employees with housing and a store they had to shop at. They had creddit at the store. From your wages you had to pay your rent and your credit at the store. The only problem was you were paid less than your rent and credit. You were not permitted to quit unless you had paid off your rent and credit. So you could not quit because you could not pay off what you owed. When put into a historical context the LDS CHurch was much less racist than the "Traditional" Christian at the time. This is the problem with teaching our kids a revisionist view of history.

I would think, by my readings of most church historys skeletons of racism exist in all of them.

Its like saying all churches are filled with sinners.

So the point would be how does a church, any church, deal with this pecular sin.

Ozzie wrote:

I would think, by my readings of most church historys skeletons of racism exist in all of them.
Its like saying all churches are filled with sinners.
So the point would be how does a church, any church, deal with this pecular sin.

Great point.

The whole law is made complete in this one command:" Love your neighbor as you love yourself."

-Galatians 5:14

A good passaqge to remember when racism rears its ugly head.

Why today do we have Black or mostly Black "Traditional" Christian Churchs? Its a fact in history,that because of slavery then "segregation" that if African Americans hadn't started churchs they would not have had a place to worship. There were White folks in the North that would welcome Blacks into there churches(and perhaps not everywhere but some), however in the south not at all. Even into the 1950's a white person could get there own house burnt down for allowing Blacks into there churchs and so on socially. I don't believe that every white person would have not allowed a black person to join there church because of racism, but because of this stubid thing that early Americans started called slavery. The Mormons never started slavery, indeed thy were welcomed into the church. However this is not to say that since most in the early history of the restored church were new converts, that yes they needed and were taught correct principles that were all brothers and sisters. Joseph Smith taught that, you only need to look for your selves if you look into th History of Jo Smith and the such. You seem angry towards this church and this man. Joseph Smith will never have to defend himself, his words today still seem to do that from what I can see. Anyways The Mormons didnt start slavery or encourage ever ever ever politically segregation. I think unfortunately you find strange odd persons, who for some reason think that if your another color other then white that you are evil bad or something which is rediculous. The African American people are a great people and our forefathers are the ones who brought there decendants over by force. If you want to know who is really racist, check out the video, remember the one called "roots"by , Alex Haley. You will learn alot of racism and where it got started and it got started by alot of white people who weren't members of the Mormon church, but the one's that were around in the south at the time. However, whats the point of the thread, if a church had things happen in its history that no longer is, whats the point. If you rob a band, pay the price and change your life, whats the point of pointingyour finger at him.

Larry wrote:

Perhaps peolpe need some historical background. Why today do we have Black or mostly Black "Traditional" Christian Churchs? Because whites did not want to worship with Blacks. So blacks were made ministers and permitted only to minister to black churchs. If a black minister was not available the blacks had to stay in a small segregated section of the Church. Now lets look at on of the major reasons that the LDS Church was forced out of Jackson Coounty Missouri in the 1830s. It is found in The Secret Constatution. The LDS Church was inviting free blacks to come to the county and join the LDS CHurch, live amongst them and worship with them. This the citizens of Jackson County could not live with. The LDS printing press was distroyed and the LDS People ordered out of the county. Now lets look at the history of the Country. While many people today believe that Northerners, who made up the vast majority of LDS, wanteed equality for blacks that is false. Most northerners did not want blacks as equal. They infact had a form of slavery themselves. This form was not just for blacks as the south had but was for all poor. It ws called working for the man. A factory owner would supply his employees with housing and a store they had to shop at. They had creddit at the store. From your wages you had to pay your rent and your credit at the store. The only problem was you were paid less than your rent and credit. You were not permitted to quit unless you had paid off your rent and credit. So you could not quit because you could not pay off what you owed. When put into a historical context the LDS CHurch was much less racist than the "Traditional" Christian at the time. This is the problem with teaching our kids a revisionist view of history.

You didnt bring up the historical background regarding this Joseph Smith, that when he ran for president of the united states that he proposed a solution to resolving the North and south issue of slavery to avoid civil war. He proposed that the federal goverment simply fork over the money to pay every farmer the coste of there slaves so they could be free and also to prevent war. BUT THEY DIDNT LISTEN TO THIS GREAT IDEA AND PROPOSAL AND YOU KNOW THE RESULTS. Jo Smith was a good guy, look at all the historical facts and really do your homework. He loved all men and knew slavery was wrong and Mormons have always been taught these things as they grow and learn in the Mormon Church. Thanks again and hope that cleared things up!

Larry wrote:

Perhaps peolpe need some historical background. Why today do we have Black or mostly Black "Traditional" Christian Churchs? Because whites did not want to worship with Blacks. So blacks were made ministers and permitted only to minister to black churchs. If a black minister was not available the blacks had to stay in a small segregated section of the Church. Now lets look at on of the major reasons that the LDS Church was forced out of Jackson Coounty Missouri in the 1830s. It is found in The Secret Constatution. The LDS Church was inviting free blacks to come to the county and join the LDS CHurch, live amongst them and worship with them. This the citizens of Jackson County could not live with. The LDS printing press was distroyed and the LDS People ordered out of the county. Now lets look at the history of the Country. While many people today believe that Northerners, who made up the vast majority of LDS, wanteed equality for blacks that is false. Most northerners did not want blacks as equal. They infact had a form of slavery themselves. This form was not just for blacks as the south had but was for all poor. It ws called working for the man. A factory owner would supply his employees with housing and a store they had to shop at. They had creddit at the store. From your wages you had to pay your rent and your credit at the store. The only problem was you were paid less than your rent and credit. You were not permitted to quit unless you had paid off your rent and credit. So you could not quit because you could not pay off what you owed. When put into a historical context the LDS CHurch was much less racist than the "Traditional" Christian at the time. This is the problem with teaching our kids a revisionist view of history.

Kolob
I think you may have misunderstood my posts. I was pointing out that if you look at the history of the LDS Church in context of history you do not see a rascist Church. Yes some racist peope but not a racist Church. Again God gives us line by line. He uses what he has to work with. An interesting thought is with the hatered od Blacks and the hatered of the LDS Church at the time how many pople could have taken the pressure of being a Black LDS leader at the time? I do not think I could have. And as the LDS Church teaches God does not give us more than we can handle. Again When we do not have everything we tend to fill in the missing pieces with our own traditions. So while God had not revieled the full reason for not giving Blacks the priesthood th thoughts of the day were put in to give answers. You use a great example of Josephs teachings. So many more can be used. One of my favorites I have used on here befor is the Black man trying to earn money to buy his sons freedom who was fined by the Nauvoo city council. While Joseph made him pay the fine he also gave him a horse to sell.

Mormonism and the Negro

According to Mormon history and authoritative Mormon teachers, the Negro, as they were referred to, are a cursed race because they were not faithful to God in their first estate (the pre-existent life with God). Hence, when they are born they are born in black skinned families.
The early Mormon church was highly prejudicial against black people. And though there has been a change in attitude to blacks as of June 9, 1978 when they were finally allowed into the Mormon priesthood, it cannot be denied that Mormonism was, up until very recently, a segregated church.
Please consider the following small sample of official Mormon writings as proof of their prejudice, their inconsistency, their doctrinal waffling, their yielding to political pressure, and their failure to truly represent Christ on earth.

"At the time the devil was cast out of heaven, there were some spirits that did not know who had authority, whether God or the devil. They consequently did not take a very active part on either side, but rather thought the devil had been abused, and considered he had rather the best claim to the government. These spirits were not considered bad enough to be cast down to hell, and never have bodies; neither were they considered worthy of an honorable body on this earth." A speech by Elder Orson Hyde, delivered before the High Priests' Quorum,, in Nauvoo, April 27th, 1845, printed in Liverpool, page 30.
"The very fact that God would allow those spirits who were less worthy in the spirit world to partake of a mortal body at all is further evidence of his mercy." Mormonism and the Negro, part I, pages 48-50.
"It is the Mormon belief that in our pre-mortal state there were a large number of individuals who, due to some act or behavior of their own in the pre-existence, forfeited the right to hold the Priesthood during their mortal lives...the Negro is thus denied the Priesthood because of his own behavior in the pre-existence." The Church and the Negro, pages 42-43.
"As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed and told that "the earth" would not thereafter yield him its abundance as previously. In addition he became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition...The Lord placed on Cain a mark of a dark skin, and he became the ancestor of the black race.(Moses 5; Gen. 4; Teachings, p. 169)." Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, page 109.
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110.
The reader should be reminded that Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church said that whatever he preached was as good as scripture -- J. D. Vol. 13, page 95, 264.

"...the church went to court on several occasions to block Negroes from moving into the San Francisco neighborhood in which the headquarters was located." The Christian Century, Sept. 29, 1965, page 1184.
On Oct. 28, 1865, the Mormon Church paper Millennial Star printed an article which stated that "Mormonism is that kind of religion the entire divinity of which is invalidated, and its truth utterly rejected, the moment that any one of its leading principles I acknowledged to be false..."
The Mormon write John J. Stewart stated: "If we as members of the Church are going to pick and choose among the Prophet's teachings, and say ‘this one is of God, we can accept it, but this one is of man, we will reject that,' then we are undermining the whole structure of our faith..." Mormonism and the Negro, page 19.
"The prophets have declared that there are at least two major stipulations that have to be met before the Negroes will be allowed to possess the Priesthood. The first requirement relates to time. The Negroes will not be allowed to hold the Priesthood during mortality, in fact, not until after the resurrection of all of Adam's children. The other stipulation requires that Abel's seed receive the first opportunity of having the priesthood....the last of Adam's children will not be resurrected until the end of the millennium. Therefore, the Negroes will not receive the Priesthood until after that time... this will not happen until after the thousand years of Christ's reign on earth." The Church and the Negro, 1967, pages 45-48.
Albert B. Fritz, NAACP branch president, said at a civil rights meeting Friday night that his organization promised not to picket the 133rd Semi-Annual General Conference of the Church on Temple Square. He added, however, that the NAACP will picket Temple Square, next Saturday if the Church does not present an ‘acceptable' statement on civil rights before that day." Deseret News, Oct. 5, 1963.
"Some 3,000 students, led by the BSU, paraded peacefully on the school's campus in Seattle Monday over the issue of alleged racism at BYU." Deseret News, March 10, 1970.
"The demonstration was the latest in a series of protests against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) because the church bars Negroes from its priesthood." Deseret News, Jan. 10, 1970.
In June of 1978 the Mormon church officiated a ‘revelation' stating that blacks could then hold the priesthood.

So its whole lot more than what Larry says but that is not unusal for this to happen Larry seems to get wrong alot.

waiting once again for your out of context made up rebutal.

God Bless

Thanks much for the clarification, I understand. Thanks and peace.

Larry wrote:

Kolob
I think you may have misunderstood my posts. I was pointing out that if you look at the history of the LDS Church in context of history you do not see a rascist Church. Yes some racist peope but not a racist Church. Again God gives us line by line. He uses what he has to work with. An interesting thought is with the hatered od Blacks and the hatered of the LDS Church at the time how many pople could have taken the pressure of being a Black LDS leader at the time? I do not think I could have. And as the LDS Church teaches God does not give us more than we can handle. Again When we do not have everything we tend to fill in the missing pieces with our own traditions. So while God had not revieled the full reason for not giving Blacks the priesthood th thoughts of the day were put in to give answers. You use a great example of Josephs teachings. So many more can be used. One of my favorites I have used on here befor is the Black man trying to earn money to buy his sons freedom who was fined by the Nauvoo city council. While Joseph made him pay the fine he also gave him a horse to sell.

OH! Nuts! I have seen Mormon fast and testimony meetings before and know they are not anything of what your perception seems to be. No one clambers for any mic or tries to out do anyone else. In fact, if I know anyone else reading these, it takes a liitle guts to get up and speak in front of any one in front of a group of persons. Weather its at work or even if your in a band, its scary to get up and speak to people in general. I imagine Mormons who share there testimony in their fast and testinomy meetings, which by the way they don't have some pre- written speach or something to give, they just get up and start to speak, even there young
teenagers. They usually just say they know that Jesus Christ lives, that He died for them, the God Lives,that they know the Church was restored through a prophet of God. I remember hearing someone once talk about an experience they had that changed there life, but nothing that was inappropriate. But, if your looking for a church to get your exercises in, to become more physically fit then perhaps (I would suggest)spiritually fit Then you need a church that provides jumping, running, falling down to the ground, speaking strange words that no one has a clue of what the yeck there saying, but sounds cool and must be some supernatural event, even though no one can benefit from it because no one understands it, then you need to find that church. Now, if I sound a little skeptical or even a little sarcastic, I don't mean to. The point is, I respect all religious beliefs...am I I disrespecting any church in particular, No because I am not naming one in particular, but I am describing what is out there. Thats the key, respect, don't tear down, go to your church with jumping up and down, but don't bring every one else down. Peace and just a thought, no tackling going on!

Vagisil wrote:

Here want a real F&T meeting, sans the fasting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Now that is a testimony!
None of the LDs crap in the ward where everyone clambers for the mic to out do the other moron about how they are so filled with the spirit and how blessed they are while reading the Miracle of Forgiveness in bed and the Holy Ghost filling their body, blah, blah, blah.
No, this is the real deal right here.

For a great piece on momormonisn and its Change from a 150 years of Racism and not allowing Blacks in the priesthood goto.

http://www.letusreason.org/LDS22.htm

Truth=Freedom

concerned in Brasil wrote:

For a great piece on momormonisn and its Change from a 150 years of Racism and not allowing Blacks in the priesthood goto.
http://www.letusreason.org/LDS22.htm
Truth=Freedom

Just asking, but, didn't Peter
say something about not wanting to sit at the same table and eat with some group? Wasn't there a reply to his comment?

Great topic to bring in Brasil. This was something that took place, meaning that blacks were not allowed the pristhood until 1978, however the part about it being because of Racism I don't agree with that. I knew many Mormon Black African Americans in the 1970s, they were very active in the churchof Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. One in particular was a friend of mine, he didnt have any anger over it or anything because he understood it from a doctrine view. He was well liked by every one in his church congregation and always felt welcomed. There is a great explanation of why Blacks were not allowed the priesthood. I know that it wasn't because they themselfs as individuals, putting the Black color part aside all together, it was because they were decendants of Cain. Cain had a mark placed upon him. Thats part of it, however it was never towards someone personally because someone decided they did not like blacks. Remember in the ancient of days which tribe of Israil for example were allowed to hold the priesthood and offer up sacrifices in the temple! The Levi's. Not every one then was allowed to hold the priesthood either. Well anyways I guess my point is if you have African Americans who were members of the church prior to 1978 and they understood this particular doctrine and they stayed members, wel that says it all. But I like your question and it's straight to the point and you are expressing your opinion regarding an actual period of history and doctrine of Mormonism. Also something of interest that some don't know. Did some research and Joseph Smith, the Prophet of Mormonism ran for president of the United States. He presented a solution to prevent civil war and free all the slaves. He proposed that the federal goverment spend the money, I can't remembr what they said it would cost, but it was alot,to buy all the slaves there freedom, but congress and the rest of them blew him off. It could have possibly prevented a civil war, but they would have maybe beat each other up over cotton or something anyways. The point here is that This Mormon Prophet taught that slavery was wrong and did not like it. He taught alot about free agency and did not believe that many Americans were truly living the constitution that was suppose to offer everyone, others of color liberty and the persuit of happiness also. There were also others of other faiths that did not like slavery also but don't have the names in front of me. I like to think of color as beuatiful. The African American people are a great people. Thanks again.

concerned in Brasil wrote:

For a great piece on momormonisn and its Change from a 150 years of Racism and not allowing Blacks in the priesthood goto.
http://www.letusreason.org/LDS22.htm
Truth=Freedom

In June 1978, President Spencer W. Kimball received a revelation extending priesthood ordination to all worthy males of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Official Declaration 2). Before that time only worthy male members who were not of black African descent were ordained to the priesthood.

Ever since biblical times, the Lord has designated through His prophets who could receive the priesthood and other blessings of the gospel. Among the tribes of Israel, for example, only men of the tribe of Levi were given the priesthood and allowed to officiate in certain ordinances. Likewise, during the Savior’s earthly ministry, gospel blessings were restricted to the Jews. Only after a revelation to the Apostle Peter were the gospel and priesthood extended to others (see Acts 10:1–33; 14:23; 15:6–8).

With the revelation to President Kimball in 1978, the priesthood is now available to all worthy male members regardless of race or ethnicity (see Official Declaration 2). Each candidate for ordination is interviewed by priesthood leaders to ensure that he understands and agrees to live by established principles of righteousness (see Doctrine and Covenants 84:33–44; 121:34–46).

Hope this helps to clarify and create better understanding regarding this point on Mormonism.

Prophecy wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello: Ed DECKER Jr, how's it going ?

Kolob wrote:

Great topic to bring in Brasil. This was something that took place, meaning that blacks were not allowed the pristhood until 1978, however the part about it being because of Racism I don't agree with that. I knew many Mormon Black African Americans in the 1970s, they were very active in the churchof Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. One in particular was a friend of mine, he didnt have any anger over it or anything because he understood it from a doctrine view. He was well liked by every one in his church congregation and always felt welcomed. There is a great explanation of why Blacks were not allowed the priesthood. I know that it wasn't because they themselfs as individuals, putting the Black color part aside all together, it was because they were decendants of Cain. Cain had a mark placed upon him. Thats part of it, however it was never towards someone personally because someone decided they did not like blacks. Remember in the ancient of days which tribe of Israil for example were allowed to hold the priesthood and offer up sacrifices in the temple! The Levi's. Not every one then was allowed to hold the priesthood either. Well anyways I guess my point is if you have African Americans who were members of the church prior to 1978 and they understood this particular doctrine and they stayed members, wel that says it all. But I like your question and it's straight to the point and you are expressing your opinion regarding an actual period of history and doctrine of Mormonism. Also something of interest that some don't know. Did some research and Joseph Smith, the Prophet of Mormonism ran for president of the United States. He presented a solution to prevent civil war and free all the slaves. He proposed that the federal goverment spend the money, I can't remembr what they said it would cost, but it was alot,to buy all the slaves there freedom, but congress and the rest of them blew him off. It could have possibly prevented a civil war, but they would have maybe beat each other up over cotton or something anyways. The point here is that This Mormon Prophet taught that slavery was wrong and did not like it. He taught alot about free agency and did not believe that many Americans were truly living the constitution that was suppose to offer everyone, others of color liberty and the persuit of happiness also. There were also others of other faiths that did not like slavery also but don't have the names in front of me. I like to think of color as beuatiful. The African American people are a great people. Thanks again.
<quoted text>

you are a dumb dumb.

Read your bible and find out why Levi's got to be the Priests.

In mormonism for 150 years blacks were solely denied the Priesthood due to skin color I.E. race.
therefore being denied the Priesthood on your skin color is to be denied on your race

WHICH IS WHAT WE CALL IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
RACISM!!!

You are in complete denial but I can understand why though. If you accept the truth as it really is your world will literally be turned upside down over night and you will know the words of Chirst when he said you will have to deny your family to be a true follower of him.

I truly sympathize with you but truth should never be scraficed to justify a lie.

God Bless

Mormons are not their own "race" therefore the term RACISM is moot. Furthermore, the Mormon church does NOT recognize the divinity of Jesus (taking the same stance with him as does the Moslem face -- merely a prophet), therefore they are NOT Christian no matter how much PR firms try to swing their image around as being Christ-oriented.

The best thing the LDS community can do is lead by example. Hard to do though when half of the base is LDS, drinking coffee, Mt. Dew, dipping, cussing and talking about others in a manner inconsistent with LDS doctrine and Christine values.

But then again, living in Utah, it is a Sunday only issue. Mon-Sat is a free for all as long as another member of your ward does not see you do it.

Ozzie wrote:

<quoted text>Just asking, but, didn't Peter
say something about not wanting to sit at the same table and eat with some group? Wasn't there a reply to his comment?

Talking with him, Peter went inside, and found a large gathering of people.
He said to them:" You are well aware that is aganist our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him.
"But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean."

- Acts:10:27