US preacher defends belief women can't teach men

I am a woman and I have no problem with this. The Bible says in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Many just don't want to take God's word at face value. There are many ways for a woman to serve God in church. They can teach children's Sun. School classes or even classes of other women. The Lord has given me tracts to write and a web page where I can be a witness. http://www.thekerrikonnektion.bravehost.com
Read the whole chapter of 1 Timothy 2. God knows what He is doing. Why can't we just trust Him and obey Him?

Why can't we just trust "Him"? Well, Kerri, I do. But I don't trust mankind to properly represent "Him."

"He" didn't write the Bible; men did. Nor did "He" sit down with the Pope and his political council in the Third Century AD and decide which scriptures to delete from the writings and which to promote. Even earlier than that, "He" didn't remove women from the church; Paul did. Even in the Bible Christ is quoted as saying all are equal. THAT was and is his message.

Who knows how each of us is called to serve? I doubt God cares about gender.

Tilly wrote:

Why can't we just trust "Him"? Well, Kerri, I do. But I don't trust mankind to properly represent "Him."
"He" didn't write the Bible; men did. Nor did "He" sit down with the Pope and his political council in the Third Century AD and decide which scriptures to delete from the writings and which to promote. Even earlier than that, "He" didn't remove women from the church; Paul did. Even in the Bible Christ is quoted as saying all are equal. THAT was and is his message.
Who knows how each of us is called to serve? I doubt God cares about gender.

Tilly,
If God is God and HE IS, He is able to preserve His Word. The Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16a, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" that is God "breathed it" He authored it. 2 Peter 1:21 tells us that He used men but it was God who told them what to say, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
You said that Christ said we are all equal. I wonder what "scripture" you use to prove that and since you don't believe that God wrote the Bible how do you know you can trust that one scripture. I actually believe the scripture you have heard and probably are referring to, God used Paul to write. It says in Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." This scripture is talking about salvation in Jesus and there indeed we are all 100% equal. We are all lost in sin and going to Hell without Jesus Christ. He alone is the hope of salvation for male, female and any nationality you want to name. Speaking of Jesus it says in Act 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
As far as the Catholic church messing up the Bible, yes they tried, but there were text the Lord preserved and protected. A short reference to read on it can be found here,http://www.chick.com/read ing/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp
else where on the same site are some links to other separate excellent references, especially I would recommend Dr. Sam Gipp's books.

Kerri, I hate to have to tell you this but if you want to literally follow that Bible verse you will either have to find a way to keep men from seeing your site,or get rid of most of your content. It's a fine line between teaching and inspiring, but I'd say there's definitely some teaching there. Even exhortation, in which you engage about three paragraphs down, implies some kind of spiritual authority. So does tract writing.

I realize that this is a web site, not a church, but where in this verse does Paul limit his instruction to a church setting? Sunday School isn't, strictly speaking, a church service either. Many of our classes aren't even held in the church but in the building next door.

This is a massive undertaking, but perhaps if we are to follow this verse literally we must silence all womens' voices on Christian matters. Are we ready to begin?

Kerri wrote:

<quoted text>
Tilly,
If God is God and HE IS, He is able to preserve His Word. The Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16a, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" that is God "breathed it" He authored it. 2 Peter 1:21 tells us that He used men but it was God who told them what to say, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
You said that Christ said we are all equal. I wonder what "scripture" you use to prove that and since you don't believe that God wrote the Bible how do you know you can trust that one scripture. I actually believe the scripture you have heard and probably are referring to, God used Paul to write. It says in Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." This scripture is talking about salvation in Jesus and there indeed we are all 100% equal. We are all lost in sin and going to Hell without Jesus Christ. He alone is the hope of salvation for male, female and any nationality you want to name. Speaking of Jesus it says in Act 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
As far as the Catholic church messing up the Bible, yes they tried, but there were text the Lord preserved and protected. A short reference to read on it can be found here,http://www.chick.com/read ing/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp
else where on the same site are some links to other separate excellent references, especially I would recommend Dr. Sam Gipp's books.

Kerri I must admit that being a woman who fights for equal treatment/rights of all people, I became appalled, almost immediately, after reading your 1st post. Because acting on impulse can lead one to make a mistake that can't be easily repaired I opened my Bible and read 1 Timothy 2-3. After my reading I must humbly say to you that you are absolutely right. I would say to anyone who doubts 1 Timothy 2 to continue reading through to the end of 1 timothy 3 where he continues to make it clear that men are to lead churches, not women.

Read first, ask questions later..........my new motto!

God Bless

Michele wrote:

Kerri, I hate to have to tell you this but if you want to literally follow that Bible verse you will either have to find a way to keep men from seeing your site,or get rid of most of your content. It's a fine line between teaching and inspiring, but I'd say there's definitely some teaching there. Even exhortation, in which you engage about three paragraphs down, implies some kind of spiritual authority. So does tract writing.
I realize that this is a web site, not a church, but where in this verse does Paul limit his instruction to a church setting? Sunday School isn't, strictly speaking, a church service either. Many of our classes aren't even held in the church but in the building next door.
This is a massive undertaking, but perhaps if we are to follow this verse literally we must silence all womens' voices on Christian matters. Are we ready to begin?

Michelle,

10 minutes ago I would be inclined to agree with you.

After reading 1 Timothy I understand more clearly what the intent is. I don't think Kerri is acting against God, after all she just opened my eyes to something I never would have believed. God works on mysterious ways and he uses us to , male and female, in different capacities. Kerri (I hope) is not claiming to be a leader of a church, she is simply passing along Christian information as a good Christian would do.

We may not like the source of the information, but the validity of the information is right on!

Kerri wrote:

I am a woman and I have no problem with this. The Bible says in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Many just don't want to take God's word at face value. There are many ways for a woman to serve God in church. They can teach children's Sun. School classes or even classes of other women. The Lord has given me tracts to write and a web page where I can be a witness. http://www.thekerrikonnektion.bravehost.com
Read the whole chapter of 1 Timothy 2. God knows what He is doing. Why can't we just trust Him and obey Him?

The most disturbing thing about what you admit to in your comment is that God is somehow a sexist and would put one person over another, notably a man over a woman. God made us all in God's own image. Since God is neither male nor female, that means all of us. God is not speaking through this passage. The culture of the time and of the writer is speaking through this passage - it was not meant for you or me or anyone else of our time period. We are supposed to listen to and learn from each other, just as we are supposed to listen and learn from God. I don't know how we are supposed to "hear" God over this type of boisterous blathering out of the lips of men - not out of the divine being. We sadly cannot mean to accomplish understanding when such outright hate is evident in our own hearts, and that much more devastating when it is a woman against her own.

Tilly wrote:

Why can't we just trust "Him"? Well, Kerri, I do. But I don't trust mankind to properly represent "Him."
"He" didn't write the Bible; men did. Nor did "He" sit down with the Pope and his political council in the Third Century AD and decide which scriptures to delete from the writings and which to promote. Even earlier than that, "He" didn't remove women from the church; Paul did. Even in the Bible Christ is quoted as saying all are equal. THAT was and is his message.
Who knows how each of us is called to serve? I doubt God cares about gender.

Right on, Tilly! I couldn't agree with you more.

Michele wrote:

Kerri, I hate to have to tell you this but if you want to literally follow that Bible verse you will either have to find a way to keep men from seeing your site,or get rid of most of your content. It's a fine line between teaching and inspiring, but I'd say there's definitely some teaching there. Even exhortation, in which you engage about three paragraphs down, implies some kind of spiritual authority. So does tract writing.
I realize that this is a web site, not a church, but where in this verse does Paul limit his instruction to a church setting? Sunday School isn't, strictly speaking, a church service either. Many of our classes aren't even held in the church but in the building next door.
This is a massive undertaking, but perhaps if we are to follow this verse literally we must silence all womens' voices on Christian matters. Are we ready to begin?

If you read all of 1 Timothy 2&3 you will see that Paul is giving instructions on how the church should be set up.

Lisa wrote:

<quoted text>
The most disturbing thing about what you admit to in your comment is that God is somehow a sexist and would put one person over another, notably a man over a woman. God made us all in God's own image. Since God is neither male nor female, that means all of us. God is not speaking through this passage. The culture of the time and of the writer is speaking through this passage - it was not meant for you or me or anyone else of our time period. We are supposed to listen to and learn from each other, just as we are supposed to listen and learn from God. I don't know how we are supposed to "hear" God over this type of boisterous blathering out of the lips of men - not out of the divine being. We sadly cannot mean to accomplish understanding when such outright hate is evident in our own hearts, and that much more devastating when it is a woman against her own.

Lisa, God did make Adam and Eve in His image according to Gen 1:27. Keeping reading though and you find that Adam disobeyed God, sin entered. That sin nature passed on to each born after that, so all of us are now born in Adam's image, sinners. We are reconciled to God only through the blood of Jesus. Just two chapters from where we see God made them in His image we read where God sets Adam to rule over Eve. Gen. 3:16b, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." This is the very passage that Paul refers to in 1 Timothy 2:12-14, "12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
You speak as if this is a horrible thing. When God set the husband to be the head of the family or the pastor to be the head of the church, both are to be in submission to God. It does not give either in either setting free reign to be slavemasters. They are to lead only as they follow God. IF it is done as God set it up, it gives a wonderful protection to the home and to the church. For more information read Ephesians 5. You see how we 'hear' God is in HIS WORD.

Lisa wrote:

<quoted text>
The most disturbing thing about what you admit to in your comment is that God is somehow a sexist and would put one person over another, notably a man over a woman. God made us all in God's own image. Since God is neither male nor female, that means all of us. God is not speaking through this passage. The culture of the time and of the writer is speaking through this passage - it was not meant for you or me or anyone else of our time period. We are supposed to listen to and learn from each other, just as we are supposed to listen and learn from God. I don't know how we are supposed to "hear" God over this type of boisterous blathering out of the lips of men - not out of the divine being. We sadly cannot mean to accomplish understanding when such outright hate is evident in our own hearts, and that much more devastating when it is a woman against her own.

While my initial reaction was to disagree with Kerri, I never came to the conclusion that she being hateful, or boisterous. She simply stated her reasons for agreeing with the church who fired a woman.......for being a woman!

Women, like me, who want nothing to do with anything that could possibly force us to take a step back in time could/would easily find a way to become offended by her comments. Because of the spiritual growth that has occured in my life, I knew that I needed to do my own reading before I commented on Kerri's comments, unfortunately (for my ego) she is right!

Don't Shoot the messenger..........

Kerri,
Thank you so much for your exhortation and patience. I would have loved to be able to express my thoughts in the same pattern that you have.

The discussion has turned away from the actions in NY to some degree, and that is common in forums such as this. However, this ongoing commentary is very informational. I obviously agree with much of what you have expressed, and 100% in the manner in which you have expressed it.

I have a favor to ask of you... would you be interested in entering into an internet type study, such as you've done in this forum, with me on a one on one basis? If so, I'd be happy to supply my email address, and other appropriate information with you in a less public format.

I've recently moved from a medium sized community where I had a small circle of friends that were able to study, discuss, disagree from time to time but not be disagreeable about Bible studies. Since my move, I've been unable to find anyone able to join me in that type of action. I miss it, terribly. There are so many issues facing our Christian churches today. I don't expect to solve any of them, but am striving to have a deeper understanding of what God originally intended and the pro's and con's that others use to disagree about those issues. If this is of interest to you, please let me know. An email address that you can use to contanct me privatly is B4IWakeFeedJake@yahoo.com. It's long, but easy to remember if you know that my beloved pet is named Jake! ;-)

Looking forward to hearing more from you,
Lisa

Lansing- MI wrote:

<quoted text>
While my initial reaction was to disagree with Kerri, I never came to the conclusion that she being hateful, or boisterous.

Women, like me, who want nothing to do with anything that could possibly force us to take a step back could/would become offended by her comments. Because of the spiritual growth that has occured in my life, I knew that I needed to do my own reading before I commented on Kerri's comments, unfortunately (for my ego) she is right!
Don't Shoot the messenger..........

AMEN Sister, and thank you for your honesty and leading the way, by example, by behaving in such a Godly manner. All should turn to our Bibles with an open heart and honest eyes to make our decisions. I've too often not done so, offered my "supposedly Godly opinion" only to learn to my shame that I was off base. Each time I do so, I pray that I've learned a little more about humility and the need to study and how unimportant my opinion is. Again, thank you for your example.
small town Lisa

Kerri wrote:

<quoted text>
If you read all of 1 Timothy 2&3 you will see that Paul is giving instructions on how the church should be set up.

I've read it many times, but thanks for the citation. Many scholars, however disagree that Paul is giving instructions for all churches. The consensus seems to be that he was giving advice for dealing with unruly members in one local church only.

However, I shall agree to disagree.

Lisa in Small Town Texas wrote:

Kerri,
Thank you so much for your exhortation and patience. I would have loved to be able to express my thoughts in the same pattern that you have.
The discussion has turned away from the actions in NY to some degree, and that is common in forums such as this. However, this ongoing commentary is very informational. I obviously agree with much of what you have expressed, and 100% in the manner in which you have expressed it.
I have a favor to ask of you... would you be interested in entering into an internet type study, such as you've done in this forum, with me on a one on one basis? If so, I'd be happy to supply my email address, and other appropriate information with you in a less public format.
I've recently moved from a medium sized community where I had a small circle of friends that were able to study, discuss, disagree from time to time but not be disagreeable about Bible studies. Since my move, I've been unable to find anyone able to join me in that type of action. I miss it, terribly. There are so many issues facing our Christian churches today. I don't expect to solve any of them, but am striving to have a deeper understanding of what God originally intended and the pro's and con's that others use to disagree about those issues. If this is of interest to you, please let me know. An email address that you can use to contanct me privatly is B4IWakeFeedJake@yahoo.com. It's long, but easy to remember if you know that my beloved pet is named Jake! ;-)
Looking forward to hearing more from you,
Lisa

Lisa, thank you for your kind words. I always enjoy talking about the Lord and how we can live for Him. On my webpage I have a forum that hasn't been used much, perhaps there we can open a discussion if that would work for you at least for now. If not let me know and maybe we can figure out something else. My webpage is http://www.thekerrikonnektion.bravehost.com

In Galations 3:26-29 we are told: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." If God makes no distinction between male and female in Christ why should we?
In Joel 2:28-29 we are told: "I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your old men will dream dreams,your young men will see visions.Even on my servants, both men and women,I will pour out my Spirit in those days."
If the Spirit is poured upon both male and female alike, if both are given the gift of prophesy who are we to restrict and therefore quench the Spirit?
Wasn't it women who first witnessed the ressurection? Did not Christ commision them to tell the good news to the others that he had risen?
Didn't Paul have two companionions in the ministry Priscilla and Aquilla? In Acts 18 we are told: "a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately."
I believe that michelle is right... we must read such passages in context. Christians who defend the right of women to speak and minister in the church do so on solid ground.

Dear Friend,

Thanks very much for reminding me that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination. I would like some further advice, however, regarding some other laws and how to best follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as suggested in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus (Ex 35:2) clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, and if so, how should I do that?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or are correctable defects in vision excluded from the aforementioned proscription.?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm on which he violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field. His wife likewise violates Leviticus by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (a cotton/polyester blend). Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?(Leviticus 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Leviticus 20:14)?

Thanks very much for your help, and thanks again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Tammy wrote:

Thanks very much for your help, and thanks again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

I love you Tammy.:)

Tammy wrote:

Dear Friend,
Thanks very much for reminding me that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination. I would like some further advice, however, regarding some other laws and how to best follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as suggested in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus (Ex 35:2) clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, and if so, how should I do that?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or are correctable defects in vision excluded from the aforementioned proscription.?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm on which he violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field. His wife likewise violates Leviticus by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (a cotton/polyester blend). Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?(Leviticus 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Leviticus 20:14)?
Thanks very much for your help, and thanks again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Perfectly put, just the way I feel though couldn't come up with as elouqent a way to express it. I feel that people that interpret the Bible, in particular the Old Testment, are very dangerous.

I meant take the Old Testament literally. That is why I think parables are ambigious on purpose, that we can take from them what we need at a given time in our lives. I have read the same parable at one point in my life and taken profound meaning, and years later taken a whole nother meaning, just as profound.