Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

In the Gay Village in Toronto,at my last count,there were 14 gay male bars and 1 lesbian bar.Before that,the only womens bar was ;Tango.All of these straight guys kept getting kick out because they were going there hitting on women.Slacks doesn't allow single men in the only Lesbian bar in the city,because it's for women.By the way the only gay male strip joint in Toronto;Remingtons,has a no women allowed policy,as well as the gay leather bar The Black Eagle. Haven't you ever wondered why there's such a high rate of alcoholicism in the straight community?Could it be all of the straight bars scattered all over the place with their free admission to anyone?

Huge Jazz wrote:

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I like the robot line. Everyone's afraid of saying the emperor has no clothes.
There is normal and there is abnormal.

Well then what is normal and what is abnormal....how do you define it????

Huge Jazz wrote:

May I ask you a question Wayward.......why are you? I mean wayward and/or atheist? This subject, either the gay part or the church part, is obviously an interest of yours. Why?

I am interested in the story because, as I mentioned above, my parents attend the church mentioned in the headline. I am interested in the discussion because I am interested in equal rights. It's an important topic, but often it devolves into name-calling and petty bickering. I thought there was an opportunity to talk to some reasonable people on both sides of the issue here.

As far as why I am an atheist ... well, that's not really relevant to my points, and is off-topic. I know how these discussions end up as well. Let's just say that I have not seen any rational reason to be otherwise.

Short Left Index Finger wrote:

In the Gay Village in Toronto,at my last count,there were 14 gay male bars and 1 lesbian bar.Before that,the only womens bar was ;Tango.All of these straight guys kept getting kick out because they were going there hitting on women.Slacks doesn't allow single men in the only Lesbian bar in the city,because it's for women.By the way the only gay male strip joint in Toronto;Remingtons,has a no women allowed policy,as well as the gay leather bar The Black Eagle. Haven't you ever wondered why there's such a high rate of alcoholicism in the straight community?Could it be all of the straight bars scattered all over the place with their free admission to anyone?

I don't find your response relevent to my comment on gays being as sepratist as other groups of people. gays are no more, or less, special than anyone else. However it seems the gay community would like to be treated as more than that.

Wayward Son wrote:

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I am interested in the story because, as I mentioned above, my parents attend the church mentioned in the headline. I am interested in the discussion because I am interested in equal rights. It's an important topic, but often it devolves into name-calling and petty bickering. I thought there was an opportunity to talk to some reasonable people on both sides of the issue here.
As far as why I am an atheist ... well, that's not really relevant to my points, and is off-topic. I know how these discussions end up as well. Let's just say that I have not seen any rational reason to be otherwise.

No problem. Just an interesting choice of words. In sailing "Wayward" infers being off course as well as the possiblity to get back on course.

Father Hinkley wrote:

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Yes there is. Read the Catholic Conference of Bishops report on sexual abuse among the priesthood. The conclusion is overwhelming that the crisis is not a pedophilia crisis as such, but a homosexual crisis. Our seminaries are hotbeds of homosexuality, unfetterred concupiscience inflaming the lusts of men for boys in depraved deviance.
The ELCA is going in the same direction, embracing such deviance, and putting children at risk. We have 50 years of research completed in 2004 showing the connection between homosexuality and pedophilia in the church.
Where is your research to insist that there is no connection- and what gay activist group was it compiled by?

You're kidding, right?

K Bar wrote:

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Yes, there is! If a pedophile targets the same sex, THAT is homosexual! But not ALL homosexuals are pedophiles. Just as not all heteros' are pedophiles. Also, abuse is not limited to only children, race, creed, religion or lack thereof.

You do not know anything. Homosexuality is an orientation. The VAST majority of pedophiles identify as heterosexual. The sex of the victim is immaterial.

jcf817 wrote:

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You do not know anything. Homosexuality is an orientation. The VAST majority of pedophiles identify as heterosexual. The sex of the victim is immaterial.

If the VAST majority of pedophiles is hetero, what, pray tell, would the rest be made up from? The sex of a victim is VERY material. As I pointed out, it's not JUST children that are abused.
Your taking my post and putting a spin to it, changes nothing! Of course, if you want to keep living in denial, that's your decision.

Everyone must learn how to separate loving the person from hating their sin. I do not hate gays/lesbians, as we are to love all people. However, we are not to support what God has condemned. Therefore, we are to hate the sin of what gays and lesbians practice. Do I need to spell out for you what they practice? Stop mixing up "Love the person; hate the sin." Grow up and educate yourself...before it's too late. You have been warned.

Union County SD wrote:

Everyone must learn how to separate loving the person from hating their sin. I do not hate gays/lesbians, as we are to love all people. However, we are not to support what God has condemned. Therefore, we are to hate the sin of what gays and lesbians practice. Do I need to spell out for you what they practice? Stop mixing up "Love the person; hate the sin." Grow up and educate yourself...before it's too late. You have been warned.

Thanks so much for your warning. Let me get this right. God has condemned something I do. Is this the same god who, in the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah, said that Lot was the only "good" man in the whole city? This is a man who OFFERED UP HIS OWN DAUGHTERS to a crowd for them to have their way with them. What father would do such a horrible thing? And he is the example of a good man, or one who your god judges to be good? What parent would do this?

Or how about the founding father of your faith and the Jewish and Muslim faiths - Abraham. Here's a guy who almost slaughters his own son. I can see the headlines in the NY Post: Man Butchers Son -- GOD TOLD ME TO.

And you are going to hold up this as the paragon of morality? And call me evil and condemned? Read your stupid textbook. If you are going to follow that book, don't be calling anybody names.

K Bar wrote:

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If the VAST majority of pedophiles is hetero, what, pray tell, would the rest be made up from? The sex of a victim is VERY material. As I pointed out, it's not JUST children that are abused.
Your taking my post and putting a spin to it, changes nothing! Of course, if you want to keep living in denial, that's your decision.

No...you do not understand orientation.

If a male heterosexual pedophile preys on a child, how does the sex of the child make a difference?

Bart wrote:

No Christian can ever accept homosexual behavior as moral, because the Bible repeatedly condemns it.
ELCA leadership is indeed apostate.

Well the Bible accepts slavery so I guess no true Christian can be against slavery right?

I'm sure you can find some church to accept your views. Maybe Fred Phelps is recruiting.

Duped since birth wrote:

<quoted text>...And call me evil and condemned? Read your stupid textbook. If you are going to follow that book, don't be calling anybody names.

He didn't call gays evil or condemned. Looks like you have lots of anger you want to vent, and you aren't responding to the actual posts.

Sarah D wrote:

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Well the Bible accepts slavery so I guess no true Christian can be against slavery right?

Actually for centuries Christians used their textbook to justify slavery and to fight against abolition. It's only been in the past hundred years or so that is has gone out of fashion (and of course some of them had to come kicking and screaming). Nothing changes. Their textbook supports all kinds of abominations and they call it their blueprint for morality. Puh-Leese!

jcf817 wrote:

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No...you do not understand orientation.
If a male heterosexual pedophile preys on a child, how does the sex of the child make a difference?

Well... gee, there's 2 sexes. As a rule, gays stick with their own. As do heteros. Are you implying that gay people DON'T commit sex crimes? Surely you jest.

K Bar wrote:

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Well... gee, there's 2 sexes. As a rule, gays stick with their own. As do heteros. Are you implying that gay people DON'T commit sex crimes? Surely you jest.

But pedophilia, rape, etc. aren't about sex.

There are heterosexual men who abuse boys.
There are heterosexual women who abuse girls.
There are homosexual men who abuse girls.
There are homosexual women who abuse boys.

Pedophilia is not related to orientation.

Pedophilia and rape are NEVER about sex. It is about violence and control.

And this is way off topic in this blog.

"They Shall Receive Greater Damnation!" www.scribd.com

Roadagent wrote:

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Your an idiot, who do think Mosose is predmotnatly filled with--GAY MEN WHO RAPE BOYS
You can spin it, beg, demand, be come disenfranchised all you want, the facts speak for themselves.

I feel a little sheepish respond to a post that's impossible to understand, but I'll give it a shot.

Homosexuality is not a predictor of abuse. Period. Grow a brain, please.

luke warm wrote:

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Well then what is normal and what is abnormal....how do you define it????

I think, just in biological terms alone and without painting a vivid and unseemly picture, the mechanics of homosexuality is abnormal to the purpose of the sexual organs and other...orfaces.

With that in mind, and since this blog is concerning a religious denomination, it would seem there is a common understanding of a "Higher Power", namely God Almighty, Creater of all things. And so if the act is contrary to the Creator's original purpose and construction , that would also be, at least in my opinion, abnormal.

So, at least in my opinion, either physically or metaphysically, homosexuality is abnormal. This doesn't mean gays are all rapists or pediphiles or whatever. It means in order for them to....perform their...whatever, it is from an abnormality.

Go ahead and blast away. I understand the wrath that will come. But the bottom line biologically is that the penis is designed (by nature and/or God) for a vagina and not an anus.