In modern Christianity, who is out of step on gays?

"James Lawson is out of step with modern Christianity."

That is only being consistent with Jesus being "out of step" with the Jewish political and religous leaders in His time.He commanded that we practice a law based on Love that is inscribed in our hearts and not on tablets of stone or books etc. His teachings were explicated in the Beatitudes as found in Mathew and Luke Regretably, present day Christianity relies on misinterperted or misread books or old texts i.e. Scriptutures which are our present day "tablets of stone." We must think and act for and out of justice with and through our hearts and not through "OUR" books which ARE NOT OF GOD!

Another thinly disguised attack on religion when Pitts says,"Ours is still an era wherein war, hatred and intolerance often wear a clerical collar." I don't know what, if any, church Pitts attends, but I have NEVER heard a Catholic priest do anything except preach AGAINST war, hatred and intolerance.
Maybe Mr. Pitts attends Mr. Obama's church.

Mr Pitts, when you and Rev Lawson state "Ours is still an era wherein war, hatred and intolerance often wear a clerical collar. As Lawson puts it, "Much of Christianity in the United States has been more influenced by violence and sexism and racism and greed than by the teachings of Jesus."" I can agree with that sentiment, as long as you include Rev. Al Sharpton, who's call for violence has lead to deaths, Louis Farakhan, and Rev Wright.

Terrance wrote:

God's Word is the ultimate compass and will never change:
Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"
Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to Lot and said to him,'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said,'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'"

Of course, everything else in the Bible is flexible, optional, or just in there for filler.

who cares

LOL!!! Talk about intolerance! You have demonized all Christians who are against the homosexual lifestyle as being racist bigots. I have known many marchers for civil rights (myself included) who happen to find the gay lifestyle a tragic thing. Color is not a choice, sexual lifestyle is. Period. Too much evidence exists AGAINST biological causes and FOR psychological causes for me to ever believe it's a choice. Sorry. In your infinite tolerance, I hope you will at least grant me the right to believe the preponderance of research evidence.

I'm with a couple of the repliers. The churches that are really 'out of step' are the ones who want to compromise God's word and twist it to suit society's pressures. The real believers will never "catch up" becaue they will never compromise. They know that God's truth never changes, reguardless of what society wants. No one is saying that gays should be hated or harrased or anything like that, reguardless of what the Phelps crowd says. It is true that Jesus preached love for all, and God doesn't hate anyone. But he does hate the sins people do, and even if it seems they're getting away with it now, they will eventually answer for them. Also no one is saying that people control who they're attracted to; it's the behavior that's viewed as a choice. Some choose to act on it and others recognize the wrong of it and don't. There may well be a genetic component to it; that's not proven yet. But there are lots of 'natural' things that we can't control but that we don't embrace and try to normalize, because we know they're bad. Ultimately though Terrance is right; God's word is the real truth and does not change, even though the world is corrupt and sinful.

Leonard, Thank you for some common sense. I cried as I read your commentary as it is so hurtful that supposed Christians who are supposed to be taught to love only have hate in their heart.

Terrance, You quote Levicus. You believe it or you don't. If you believe what he says about homosexuals, then you must believe what he says about slavery as well. Good. Then it is perfectly OK for me to make you my slave. I can't abuse you but you must do my work with no recompensation. Would you find that unfair? But if Levicus says it's OK, then it must be OK.

Oh Brother, If sexuality is a choice then there must have been a time when you were attracted to both guys and girls equally. What? You say you have never wanted to be with a guy? So there was no choice for you then. I knew when I had my earliest memories (4-5 years old) that when I grew up I would not want to be with girls and that I would like guys. Had no clue of the actual details but knew that I would not marry a girl. The whole "choice" belief is something that the Catholic church dreamed up to further their agenda.

"Homosexual Lifestyle" is another invention of the Catholic Church. Why don't we talk about the "Heterosexual lifestyle".
Screw every girl I can until I get married. Cheat on my wife and get divorced.(So much for the sanctity of marriage and that death til we part stuff.) Repeat several times. Complain that Gays would ruin the "Sanctity of Marriage" that is now a heterosexual merry go round.

Isaac wrote:

<quoted text>
God's repeated commands against homosexual acts are not "hurtful." They are the loving advice and command of a loving Father trying to save His children, both in this life and in the life to come:
Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"
Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to Lot and said to him,'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said,'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'"

Why? They never explain it.

Issac, you don't think putting someone to death is hurtful?

I have to ask, what is the standard of truth? There's more proof homosexuality is caused by genetics than the idea that a god wrote the bible. I could write down, "You have it wrong, it DOES say 'Adam and Steve'- God" and it would have just as much validity as anything in the bible. You forget there's more to the "official" bible than what's in the Jewish testament and v2.

As for the claim that god loves everyone:

Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

If "god's word" is a moral compass, then it's a compass that spins around and never gives proper direction.

Don'cha just love this biblical cherry-picking? They get all excited over three lines in the Book of Leviticus, which in actuality is a laundry list of so-called abominations like eating shellfish and wearing clothes made from two separate fabrics. But are people who dine at Red Lobster and wear poly-cotton blends ever the subject of such righteous indignation? Ha! That'll be the day.

What's funny--in a sad way--is that you can bring up any other part of the Bible and hear how it's "open to interpretation" or "a faulty translation." Apparently only the anti-gay stuff is set in stone.(Never mind that the word homosexual didn't even exist in biblical times.) Hypocrites.

Incidentally, oh brother, what is this "preponderance of research evidence" you write of that supposedly proves that homosexuality is a choice?(If you're going to quote an organization that has the word Family in the title, I suggest you find a slightly less biased source.) And you can give the "intolerant" bit a rest. As the saying goes, which I'll politically correct a bit, the psychiatric hospitals are full of guests calling everybody else mentally ill.

Most civil rights activists disagree with your position:

"A landmark summit of Black clergy took place in Atlanta on January 20-21 to strategize about fighting against anti-gay discrimination in African American churches. More than 200 ministers and gay rights activists took part in this first Black Church Summit, which was called by the National Black Justice Coalition. The summit was held at the First Iconium Baptist Church in Atlanta, and keynote speeches were given by Rev. Al Sharpton and Bishop Yvette Flunder of the City of Refugees Church in San Francisco."

You further display your ignorance by claiming that sexual orientation is a choice. There is NO scientific evidence which supports this position. The "preponderance of evidence" overwhelmingly supports the position that sexual orientation is either all or significantly influenced by biological factors.

And finally, there is nothing "tragic" about my life, thank you. Personally, I find your ignorance and prejudice to be tragic.

oh brother wrote:

LOL!!! Talk about intolerance! You have demonized all Christians who are against the homosexual lifestyle as being racist bigots. I have known many marchers for civil rights (myself included) who happen to find the gay lifestyle a tragic thing. Color is not a choice, sexual lifestyle is. Period. Too much evidence exists AGAINST biological causes and FOR psychological causes for me to ever believe it's a choice. Sorry. In your infinite tolerance, I hope you will at least grant me the right to believe the preponderance of research evidence.

oh brother wrote:

Christians who are against the homosexual lifestyle as being racist bigots.

Well the key in that sentence that unlocks the ignorance and arrogance is "being against". Notice there isn't anything that says "understands"?

Bigots refuse to "understand" they are bigots because they are "against" without knowledge.

Unfortunately, bad concepts of God lead people to hurtful feelings about He who loves us. But bad concepts of God also tell us something about the people that have these concepts.

Homosexuality has never been an accepted practice of the Jewish people nor has it ever been accepted by Christians. There is a right purpose for the sexual act. It's not like Christians accept fornication between men and women, either! That's Modern, Leonard, but the teachings haven't changed.

There is no such thing as "Modern Christianity". Again, someone is playing political games here. Christianity is that which has been practiced and witnessed to by the apostles and the holy catholic and apostolic church that is guided by the Holy Spirit. It alone hasn't changed. It is the eastern orthodox church and it isn't political.

Jesus Christ was not a political enterprise. He refused to make himself an earthly political man. He strived for perfect obedience to God. That's how He saves man, creating a path that allows us to be more like God, if we choose.

MLM has it right.

Experience something new. Don't let soteriologically obsessed western christians tell you that they know who is saved and who is not. The eastern orthodox know where the church is -- but they don't know where it isn't. Thus, they don't make pronouncements on people's salvation. They just reveal the fullness of the truth about God to realize how much more we can be like Him. Find the true church and its teachings will show love, not pronouncing of hate. Remember, RIGHT LIVING leads to right thinking, not the other way around.

moquif wrote:

Issac, you don't think putting someone to death is hurtful?
I have to ask, what is the standard of truth? There's more proof homosexuality is caused by genetics than the idea that a god wrote the bible. I could write down, "You have it wrong, it DOES say 'Adam and Steve'- God" and it would have just as much validity as anything in the bible. You forget there's more to the "official" bible than what's in the Jewish testament and v2.
As for the claim that god loves everyone:
Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.
Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
If "god's word" is a moral compass, then it's a compass that spins around and never gives proper direction.

http://www.cwfa.org/printerfriendly.asp...

Moquif!

"Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired," Concludes Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project
By A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D, MBA, MPH

April 4, 2007 - Dr. Francis S. Collins, one of the world's leading scientists who works at the cutting edge of DNA, concluded that "there is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits. For virtually none of them is heredity ever close to predictive."

There's no "race" gene either. So what?

Lisa wrote:

There's no "race" gene either. So what?

There's only the 'reductionist' or the 'relativist' gene.
Maybe, just maybe, there's no 'gene' either, Lisa.
There's only the force of logic,!?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/health/13ca...

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