Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil Unions

Nov 30, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CBS2

The Illinois House has approved a measure to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples.

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#34453
Jul 6, 2012
 

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KiMare wrote:
Good question. Here are some responses and thoughts;
If you
believe denying marriage to a relationship
will prevent love
If you
demand any committed relationship
has to be called marriage
If you
claim rights and benefits can only be acquired
by a imposition on marriage
If you
equate the diversity of two genders
with the redundancy of same genders
If you
desecrate the sacred tradition of all major religions
and violate the historic practice of every single culture in history
If you
believe a fundamental change to the building block of society
will have absolutely no affect
If you
think a law can change
the reality of crucial distinctions in relationships
If you
pretend duplicating sexuality
is the same as blending masculinity and femininity
If you
condemn some children to parents of only one gender
and deliberately deny some children one natural parent
If you
ignore the design of sexual union
to manipulate a harmful act
If you
violate evolution's law of reproduction
to equate a genetic dead end
If you
risk the healthiest human relationship
to include one of the unhealthiest
If you
parallel the sole birthplace of every other relationship
with one that can reproduce none
If you
dilute all these things
down to just 'a committed relationship of two people'
Then, and only then, can you equate same-sex unions with marriage.
Thank you! So is it that they want their union to be called a marriage? If you called it what it is, a Civil Union, would it be a problem then?
What is your definition of unhealthy? I am confused on it causing a dead end. If the entire population were same sex relationships then ok I can see that being a possibility, however, this would never be the case. If anything we have too many people in the world as it is. I can't comment on the religious factor because that's determined on a personal belief and fortunately in AMerica we have separation of church and state. But to say that we would violate historic practice is false. If you research a time in history concerning the Romans you may be shocked to learn a few things.
Do you feel that a parentless child will be better off than one who has a loving parent to raise them? Or that a child raised by an adopted parent is worse off than one that has their natural parent?
Thanks for the discussion!

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#34454
Jul 6, 2012
 

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ned wrote:
Gay people are mentally ill because being on this planet demands that you go on via having your own children....they have none because the male wants the father to enter him from the rear and he equates that with love...it is not love...
I know plenty of people who do not want children and are not gay. Does this mean they are mentally ill? And how do you know what someone elses love is? Were you there to watch them? OMG you're gay! Ew! Gross! lol

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34455
Jul 6, 2012
 

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dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
bullshit belongs in the barnyard. nobody would ever let you work near children and you know it. give it a miss.
not only that, but children in a same sex family have two parents. wtf is your problem, anyway? do you just want to spread your bias and hatred to see how far it goes and how many people you can hurt?
Did you miss my last post to you?

Your character is showing again...

You do your father well, your vocation, that's another story, isn't it?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34456
Jul 6, 2012
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Your prejudice colors your experience.
I've worked over 40 years with abused and abandoned kids in foster homes and institutional settings as well as in family homes. I've seen kids with gay foster parents and gay adoptive parents who wanted to stay with their gay parents rather than return to abusive biological parents. The research also supports the conclusion that kids do best and want to be where they are appreciated and loved. Gender or sexual orientation of the parent is not the determining factor.
Meanwhile the irrational, scientifically unsupportable prejudice promoted by you and the hate troll of many names here, results in needless suffering and death.
You violate your vocation's ethics with that distorted BS. I'd love to report you. God help the children you've 'helped'...

Poor childcare happens in every setting. The bottom line? Children prefer and find the best setting most often is their biological mother and fathers.

Give me your 'study'. A actual one with research methods explained.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34457
Jul 6, 2012
 

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CUZ wrote:
<quoted text>
Mine are not missing a parent. They have two. And I find it hard to believe that ''every child in any situation missing a parent prefers their father and mother''. Really? Because there are some pretty horrid parents out there.
Who are you trying to convince?

Only one of you is their natural parent.

Every type of setting has it's failures, don't they? Is it fair to only point out one side? Maybe we could start a pissing contest on horror stories of children in gay and straight homes.

The astounding thing is that a real parent would actually question whether a child wants their real parents...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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Jul 6, 2012
 

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nfgc wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you! So is it that they want their union to be called a marriage? If you called it what it is, a Civil Union, would it be a problem then?
What is your definition of unhealthy? I am confused on it causing a dead end. If the entire population were same sex relationships then ok I can see that being a possibility, however, this would never be the case. If anything we have too many people in the world as it is. I can't comment on the religious factor because that's determined on a personal belief and fortunately in AMerica we have separation of church and state. But to say that we would violate historic practice is false. If you research a time in history concerning the Romans you may be shocked to learn a few things.
Do you feel that a parentless child will be better off than one who has a loving parent to raise them? Or that a child raised by an adopted parent is worse off than one that has their natural parent?
Thanks for the discussion!
I appreciate that you are interested in learning perspectives. That was my goal when I first came on topix.

1. You understand correctly, I do not agree in calling gay unions marriage. Marriage defines a unique, important and distinct relationship. Gays have every opportunity to pursue rights, just as other groups (minorities, handicapped and yes, married people) have.

2. Anal sex is inherently harmful, unhealthy and demeaning. From a gay friendly site;

"Anal sex has a number of health risks. Anal intercourse is the riskiest form of sexual activity for several reasons, including the following:"

http://www.webmd.com/sex/anal-sex-health-conc...

3. 96% of marriages result in children. Gay unions birth 0%. That is what I mean by a dead end. It is not a matter of population control, it is a matter of distinguishing relationships. You need to ask why gays do not want to establish their own identity on their own merits as every other minority has done.

4. I didn't reference a religious doctrine. I referred to a civilized sensitivity to culture and religions. Nor is it inaccurate to reference 'historic practice'. Marriage has been a part of every single culture in recorded human history. From start to finish of that culture. Gay 'marriage' has never been accepted in a single culture from start to finish. You referenced Roman culture. I am very familiar with it. Gay 'marriage' was never legal. In fact, when it did briefly arise, it was mocked by political peers. Additionally, why did gay 'marriage' not establish itself when it did happen and spread?

5. The simple facts are that on average, a child outside a biological family setting is worse off. I have a problem equating any situation with nature's design. A gay couple ALWAYS deprives a child of one gender and at least one parent. I have a severe problem with a gay couple DELIBERATELY birthing a child without both biological parents to raise them.

Thank you for your honest questions!

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#34459
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Legalize gay marriage, this IS supposed to be a free country. How is it free if people can't marry who they love? If you don't like gay marriage, then don't get married to the same sex. Simple enough!
All that said I am a straight mother of 3 and I believe in God.
Dick Face Durbin

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#34463
Jul 6, 2012
 

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How utterly creepy is this whole gay thing. Think about it man on man women on women just sends a chill up my spine.
GOPvsUSA

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#34464
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You may have some credibility if you could learn to construct a sentence.
Saiperus wrote:
Legalize gay marriage, this IS supposed to be a free country. How is it free if people can't marry who they love? If you don't like gay marriage, then don't get married to the same sex. Simple enough!
All that said I am a straight mother of 3 and I believe in God.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34465
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Saiperus wrote:
Legalize gay marriage, this IS supposed to be a free country. How is it free if people can't marry who they love? If you don't like gay marriage, then don't get married to the same sex. Simple enough!
All that said I am a straight mother of 3 and I believe in God.
Marriage defines a distinct relationship.

You described marriage in your identity;

In every culture, in all of human history, marriage has been the union of diverse genders who bear the fruit of humanity.

It is the design of evolution and God.

Redundant genders united are sterile. They may be gay unions, but they are not marriage.

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#34466
Jul 7, 2012
 

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nfgc wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you! So is it that they want their union to be called a marriage? If you called it what it is, a Civil Union, would it be a problem then?
What is your definition of unhealthy? I am confused on it causing a dead end. If the entire population were same sex relationships then ok I can see that being a possibility, however, this would never be the case. If anything we have too many people in the world as it is. I can't comment on the religious factor because that's determined on a personal belief and fortunately in AMerica we have separation of church and state. But to say that we would violate historic practice is false. If you research a time in history concerning the Romans you may be shocked to learn a few things.
Do you feel that a parentless child will be better off than one who has a loving parent to raise them? Or that a child raised by an adopted parent is worse off than one that has their natural parent?
Thanks for the discussion!
This list fails to provide any scientifically justifiable excuse or legitimate governmental interest sufficient for denial of equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution. It is based on prejudice alone.

It also ignores that ability for procreation has never been a requirement to get a marriage license.

And while gay people will never be the majority, even if everyone turned gay tomorrow, people would still have children. Gay people can and do reproduce, using all of the same wide variety of methods available to straight couples who need assistance. The turkey baster method is the most popular method of assisted reproduction at home, and requires no medical assistance. Some couples choose to use biological material from one partner combined with the biological material from a relative of the other partner, so that the child is related to both partners. Some women choose to use the fertilized egg from one, implanted in the other so that one parent is the biological mother while the other parent is the birth mother.

For many couples, being biologically related is not important, and they simply adopt.

Adopted children can do just as well and are often treated better than biological children.

30 years of research shows children of gay couples can do just as well as those from straight couples, and the determining factor is the relationship between the parents and child, not the gender of the parents.

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#34467
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"Same sex marrriage in early Christian
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual.

Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.

Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.

Same-sex unions in pre-modern Europe list in great detail some same gender ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek 13th century rite, "Order for Solemn Same-Sex Union", invoked St. Serge and St. Bacchus, and called on God to "vouchsafe unto these, Thy servants [N and N], the grace to love one another and to abide without hate and not be the cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God, and all Thy saints". The ceremony concludes: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be concluded".

Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.

The Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books,“Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae”(Paris, 1667).

While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman times, homophobic writings didn’t appear in Western Europe until the late 14th century. Even then, church-consecrated same sex unions continued to take place.

At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, "taking communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together" according to a contemporary report. Another woman to woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century."

http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34470
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
This list fails to provide any scientifically justifiable excuse or legitimate governmental interest sufficient for denial of equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution. It is based on prejudice alone.
It also ignores that ability for procreation has never been a requirement to get a marriage license.
And while gay people will never be the majority, even if everyone turned gay tomorrow, people would still have children. Gay people can and do reproduce, using all of the same wide variety of methods available to straight couples who need assistance. The turkey baster method is the most popular method of assisted reproduction at home, and requires no medical assistance. Some couples choose to use biological material from one partner combined with the biological material from a relative of the other partner, so that the child is related to both partners. Some women choose to use the fertilized egg from one, implanted in the other so that one parent is the biological mother while the other parent is the birth mother.
For many couples, being biologically related is not important, and they simply adopt.
Adopted children can do just as well and are often treated better than biological children.
30 years of research shows children of gay couples can do just as well as those from straight couples, and the determining factor is the relationship between the parents and child, not the gender of the parents.
Pure gay twirl. Dripping with deceit. Diabolical distortion.

Again I ask why that is necessary for a just cause.

Please specify a single point on the "If You" list that is not simple fact.

Marriage has historically been the identity of a unique and foundational relationship in society. The law recognizes and supports that in numerous ways. Gays have every opportunity to pursue appropriate rights on their own merits without imposing a imposter relationship on marriage.

Who said procreation is a 'requirement' of marriage? It is simply a fact of marriage, a consequence of marriage and even a cause of marriage.

The only comparison gays have with a natural family is when nature has gone awry. Survival of the fittest in evolution has determined that a biological father and mother are the best. Humans have formalized and supported that dictate with marriage.

Your assertions about studies about gay families has been debunked for numerous reasons. You know that.

http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authored_new...

"Oxford, June 10, 2012 - Despite considerable research showing that children of same-sex parents fare just as well as children with heterosexual parents, two papers - a review of existing studies and a new study - published today in Elsevier’s Social Science Research, find insufficient data to draw any definitive conclusions.
The review by Dr. Loren Marks from Louisiana State University finds that much of the science that forms the basis for the highly regarded External link 2005 official brief on same-sex parenting by the American Psychological Association (APA) does not stand up to scrutiny. The new study by University of Texas sociologist and professor Mark Regnerus, provides compelling new evidence that numerous differences in social and emotional well-being do exist between young adults raised by women who have had a lesbian relationship and those who have grown up in a nuclear family."

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34471
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
"Same sex marrriage in early Christian
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual.
Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.
Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.
Same-sex unions in pre-modern Europe list in great detail some same gender ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek 13th century rite, "Order for Solemn Same-Sex Union", invoked St. Serge and St. Bacchus, and called on God to "vouchsafe unto these, Thy servants [N and N], the grace to love one another and to abide without hate and not be the cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God, and all Thy saints". The ceremony concludes: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be concluded".
Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.
Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.
The Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books,“Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae”(Paris, 1667).
While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman times, homophobic writings didn’t appear in Western Europe until the late 14th century. Even then, church-consecrated same sex unions continued to take place.
At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, "taking communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together" according to a contemporary report. Another woman to woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century."
http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files...
Boswell's assertions have long been debunked BY BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Each point you make can easily be researched on the internet and debunked. For instance, the 13th century rite you list;

Gay Roman soldiers Sergius and Bacchus:

http://www.ucc.ie/milmart/sergorig.html

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9411/articl...

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/bosrev-sha...

Overview;

http://www.catholicvoteaction.org/americanpap...
Concerned

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#34472
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Hell they allow a child molester run free in Jersey county for 30 years why not support the other laws

Since: Mar 07

The entire US of A

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#34474
Jul 7, 2012
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
........
Marriage has historically been the identity of a unique and foundational relationship in society. The law recognizes and supports that in numerous ways. Gays have every opportunity to pursue appropriate rights on their own merits without imposing a imposter relationship on marriage.
.........
Why in the world would you believe that a gay person's marriage is an "impostor relationship"? The only way that would be true is if the gay person married someone who is straight, forming a loveless marriage of convenience.

What is missing, in your opinion? And, since you are not gay yourself, and have never lived in the homes of gay married couples to obtain first hand information, how would you prove your hypothesis?

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#34475
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Concerned wrote:
Hell they allow a child molester run free in Jersey county for 30 years why not support the other laws
Are you REALLY trying to equate marriage with child molestation?

How is that logical?
Concerned

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#34476
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you REALLY trying to equate marriage with child molestation?
How is that logical?
I'm just saying if they allow child molesting why not gay marriages. Gay marriages is no where near child molesting. why are they dicking with gay marriages there are more important things going on to spend are tax dollar on such as jersey county Illinois let this man walk free

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34477
Jul 7, 2012
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
........
Marriage has historically been the identity of a unique and foundational relationship in society. The law recognizes and supports that in numerous ways. Gays have every opportunity to pursue appropriate rights on their own merits without imposing a imposter relationship on marriage.
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Why in the world would you believe that a gay person's marriage is an "impostor relationship"? The only way that would be true is if the gay person married someone who is straight, forming a loveless marriage of convenience.
What is missing, in your opinion? And, since you are not gay yourself, and have never lived in the homes of gay married couples to obtain first hand information, how would you prove your hypothesis?
The only way that would be true? Really. There are countless ways to have imposter relationships.

There have been historic cases (Spain) where SS couples pretended to be diverse couples to get married. That was deemed a 'imposter relationship' legally.

Marriage has always been the evolutionary reunion of male/female into the original genderless life form that is the only place human fruit originates.

Gay unions can do neither except by one partner pretending to be the opposite gender (dike or effeminate), and taking advantage of a broken heterosexual relationship's child. Hence, a 'imposter relationship'.

Not complicated at all, is it?

PS (I am a genetic chimera, a hermaphrodite lesbian trapped in a straight man's body).

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#34478
Jul 7, 2012
 

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Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you REALLY trying to equate marriage with child molestation?
How is that logical?
The post is equating GAY 'marriage' with pedophilia.

Both involve politically correct denial about gays at the expense of children and society.

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