Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,618

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86073 Aug 22, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>According to the bible, all atheists have never done one good thing in their lives. So if you disagree, the bible is not one hundred percent true.
Psalm 14:1
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.
14 The fool says in his heart,“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.
yes, but are you kidding seems smarter and nicer than the bible. lots of Christians do, once you find out their humane views. I do not see how they can make much improvement in Christian doctrine without actually repudiating the essential parts of it, but I wish them good luck in trying to improve it (meaning by implication that I hope they repudiate many of the worst parts of it, however essential to the fundamentals of the religion). same with other religions.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86074 Aug 22, 2012
Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you tell me if any of these sects of religion are acceptable to God as true christianity. If they any teach satanic doctrines,which ones?
1. Jehovah Witnesses
2. Seventh Day Advantist
3. Mormon (LDS)
4. Catholic
5. Pentecostal
Wings of a Dove is about to have to repudiate all denominations and cults as such, and go through the world individual by individual, if he is to find any who follow a decent view of wwjd.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86075 Aug 22, 2012
curious wrote:
<quoted text>You made a point within my point. Letting the other side take control of what goes on in schools. What happen to the good old days? If parents taught their kids respect. Children should be taught respect, to respect teachers and adults, people in general. Its all about I I I I .....and WANT WANT WANT.... Without regards to others... Its not about wanting more. in the least. It's about FAIRNESS TO ALL!!!!
respect for persons, and for other living creatures. not respect for Authority as such. sometimes people want more because they did not get what they really needed as children - they need love and belonging and security and happiness. that was not necessarily what they got in the good old days. it would be a matter of family by family,. even parent by parent, whether they got the love and good example and good life they needed as children. a religion teaching hellfire is not part of love or a good life.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86076 Aug 22, 2012
Are You Kidding wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally know hundreds of Christians who are not like that at all. In addition, I have done nothing to you. I have not tried to force anything on you. To categorize every Christian together and to make that comment to me when you don't even know me indicates your level of bias and hatred.
I just found the comment of sp in which he was so nasty to you. as part of generalizing against all Christians. my guess is that he might have been raised in a fundy repressive religion, and had a hard time getting free, and so is hostile to Christianity based on a bad experience.
as one raised agnostic and atheist and unafraid of the social elites (religious and academic) in my community, I am a socalled friendly agnostic/atheist. I can understand the harsh ones to some extent, but do not approve, and I let them know. Some of them turn against me for disapproving of their obscenity, for example. Others back down and admit they do not mean to attack all Christians. Most tolerate me and yet do not apologize or change their ways! Those are the ones I call chide-able - meaning I can chide them for their language and generalizations, and yet they are not hostile to me, and still continue a conversation. I think you might try to protest calmly to those types, and see if any of them recognize you are not a rightwing fundie extremist - as I am assume you are not.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86077 Aug 22, 2012
Concerned citizen wrote:
A thought....did it ever occur to any of you that not everyone believes the same thing you do. Nor should they be forced to. What if lived in an area where everyone was not christians. Say a large city where there are more religions. Would you think it were fair if others tried to push their religion into schools and onto your child. No way, you'd be after their heads. The issue here is that school is no place for religion of any kind. if you want your child to hear about religion on schools, then send them to a chrisitan school. their are grants and scholarships available. but don't tell me i have to force my child to undertake the teachings of a religion that i do not agree with. i wouldn't do it to your children and I believe it is your Bible that says you should treat others how you would like to be treated.
This is a very fine reply to the extemist Christians who want to force their views on children. You set the sort of example I want to see for how a person should stand up for the principle of religious freedom, and for non-Establishment of religion, strongly but without hostility. You ask others to put themselves in the shoes of other persons - which is a rare thing on topix. thank you for a fine comment. I strongly support a coalition of persons who respect the first amendment, and it should include anyone who understands as a matter of principle, and a matter of practice - whether agnostic, believer in another religion, or Christian.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86078 Aug 22, 2012
spooky wrote:
I think having some over bearing grown man rolling around on the floor claiming to be speaking in tongues and scaring the heck out of kids with the promise of buring in a make believe hell for eternity if they don't behave is child abuse. Shame on you!
I agree with you. next time hit the reply button so we can see whose comment you were replying to. and please come back. we need straight shooters who do not overgeneralize, but concentrate on the really bad attitudes and practices of the the really bad persons who claim to follow some religion or other.
the hellfire preaching types - and the Armageddon threatening types - are among the worst.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86079 Aug 22, 2012
The Specialist wrote:
<quoted text>If most law-maker's would actually read the Bible, they would think twice before enforcing religious laws onto our children. The very concept sickens me.
how much do you know about lawmakers? the new ones elected by the tea party and the rightwing Christian fundies are busy passing laws to take away the right to vote for old people, minorities, and college students who do not have photo id's with expiration dates. in 31 states a rapist has parental rights. the guy who came up with the theory that a woman who is really legitimately raped has some sort of biological mechanism that will keep her from getting pregnant - that guy was a surrogate spokesman for Romney in 2007.
if you want decent lawmakers, you need to take back the gOP from the nut-cases, and stop the big money rightwing corporate types from funding commercials with attacks on anyone to the left of Attila the Hun. Bob Dole would get trashed by this crowd!
Are You Kidding

Chicago, IL

#86080 Aug 22, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> I just found the comment of sp in which he was so nasty to you. as part of generalizing against all Christians. my guess is that he might have been raised in a fundy repressive religion, and had a hard time getting free, and so is hostile to Christianity based on a bad experience.
as one raised agnostic and atheist and unafraid of the social elites (religious and academic) in my community, I am a socalled friendly agnostic/atheist. I can understand the harsh ones to some extent, but do not approve, and I let them know. Some of them turn against me for disapproving of their obscenity, for example. Others back down and admit they do not mean to attack all Christians. Most tolerate me and yet do not apologize or change their ways! Those are the ones I call chide-able - meaning I can chide them for their language and generalizations, and yet they are not hostile to me, and still continue a conversation. I think you might try to protest calmly to those types, and see if any of them recognize you are not a rightwing fundie extremist - as I am assume you are not.
Thank you for your post and I appreciate your input. I guess it takes time to get a clear picture of where everyone is coming from. My interest is discussion and debate. Not harassment and name calling.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86081 Aug 22, 2012
somebody wrote:
NO! no no no no! If you teach the bible you're teaching against science and tolerance! Do you want your children to know it's okay to own slaves or having two wives isn't adultery?
not to know, but to believe - is why they want to teach that stuff. reinforcement for the beliefs of the fundies, by making everyone else's children learn the same nonsense they teach their own children. the two wives stuff is not so bad - if it were patrick dempsey or someone else gorgeous. there is lots worse. the problem with the polygamy theory and practice is that it is usually carried out as an oppression of women, and not as a favor to them. and monogamy can be a form of oppression too, if there is no divorce allowed, or if marital rape is permitted.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86082 Aug 22, 2012
sad wrote:
One huge con! You can have love and be kind to others without this imaginary guy up in the sky. Funny how christians believe they hold the market on morals and humanity and the rest of us are "evil doers".
many true believing christians do believe that. I think maybe fewer than one thinks. the fundies dominate topix, and a moderate christian would get torn apart for showing tolerance for other views here. and to be candid, some moderate christians are too busy being halfway nice people, and halfway superstitious people, to have time for chats on internet. lots of prayer meetings, and lots of dogooder activities. one tolerates it in a small town like mine, if there is enough doing good. it is disconcerting to get prayed for if one is sick however! my Christian friends like me, and think they are helping. I am secretly amused, and grateful that they care about me, without being too clear about how silly I think they are in thinking they can petition God on Wednesdays and Sundays, and then accept HIS WILL when things do not go so well.(I am not very sick - bad knees mostly. I regard exercise as a better alternative than prayer.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#86083 Aug 22, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I do get bored with it. That is why I left this tread for a while. I am up for some more nuanced debate if you wish to play.
But to answer your question, yes, I do wish for them to leave superstition behind for their sake, but also for societies sake. I feel religious extremism is hurting our society. I have multiple motives. Sometimes I just wish to test my own beliefs. I find discussing them makes one self examine his own ideals. If I cannot answer a question, maybe there is reason. Sometimes I am just not educated, but on occasion, I do find my own beliefs are flawed.
This happens usually in political discussions. I cannot recall any in a religious debate.
So if I am just uneducated on a topic, I study it more to be on point in a debate. So it is a great learning motivator.
Debating is fun for me. So for many years, I have studied just to be able to debate knowledgeably.
My favorite subject I have had to research so far is evolutionary psychology. Fascinating stuff.
I do feel some religious persons will convert. I have converted or at least contributed to converting quite a few people I know. Sometimes it is a simple as planting a seed of doubt. A year or two later I see them and they say they are now agnostic or atheist and give me credit.
I have seen none of these people regret loosing faith one bit.
I find it is almost a religious experience loosing faith and discovering the reality of our world.
I think one has the same enlightening, euphoric emotional experience.
I feel in my own conversion, a renewed lease on life. I can see clearly now the religion is gone.
thank you for your interesting reply. I am trying to catch up with lots of people and pages, but your comments are encouraging - about getting people to start doubting. I assume you were raised religious, but do not know whether it was with a rightwing version. I think you would have a better idea of what can help people see through their indoctrination - because of what you seem to have gone through.

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#86084 Aug 22, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> respect for persons, and for other living creatures. not respect for Authority as such. sometimes people want more because they did not get what they really needed as children - they need love and belonging and security and happiness. that was not necessarily what they got in the good old days. it would be a matter of family by family,. even parent by parent, whether they got the love and good example and good life they needed as children. a religion teaching hellfire is not part of love or a good life.
You sound like a Satanist
Believer

Jamestown, KY

#86085 Aug 22, 2012
wronged wrote:
How wonderful that must be for him to know he would see them all again someday. One question though how do you know for sure that once saved always saved? Does the bible not say repent? If you were always saved why would you have a need to do that? Just wanted your outlook on that. I hope and pray everyone including my children make it to heaven. But I cant get anyone there but me, myself and I , can only try and steer them in that direction hoping we all make it.
Amen.
Are You Kidding

Chicago, IL

#86086 Aug 22, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> respect for persons, and for other living creatures. not respect for Authority as such. sometimes people want more because they did not get what they really needed as children - they need love and belonging and security and happiness. that was not necessarily what they got in the good old days. it would be a matter of family by family,. even parent by parent, whether they got the love and good example and good life they needed as children. a religion teaching hellfire is not part of love or a good life.
I was born in the late 50's and my father was a minister. I grew up in a very loving, secure family. Memories of my childhood always bring me smiles. I was in church every time the doors were open and my father taught love and forgiveness. I never felt intimidated or scared.

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#86087 Aug 22, 2012
Is the GOP the party of anti-science?

Rep. Todd Akin made news this weekend by announcing that pregnancy from "legitimate rape" is rare. He further argued that physicians had told him that women who were traumatized in such a way had biological things happen in their bodies to "shut down" the "whole thing" so that fertilization won't occur

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/opinion/carroll...

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#86088 Aug 22, 2012
Spaceship earth wrote:
Is the GOP the party of anti-science?
Rep. Todd Akin made news this weekend by announcing that pregnancy from "legitimate rape" is rare. He further argued that physicians had told him that women who were traumatized in such a way had biological things happen in their bodies to "shut down" the "whole thing" so that fertilization won't occur
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/opinion/carroll...
Such appalling ignorance from an elected member of our government.
ANY woman who votes for this a$$hole should have her head examined.
(And honestly, any MAN also.)

And look.... http://www.examiner.com/article/kirk-cameron-...

Kirk "look how wonderfully god made bananas peel" Cameron is DEFENDING the idiot.

The fundies may be right. If the end isn't near, it should be.

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#86089 Aug 22, 2012
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Such appalling ignorance from an elected member of our government.
ANY woman who votes for this a$$hole should have her head examined.
(And honestly, any MAN also.)
And look.... http://www.examiner.com/article/kirk-cameron-...
Kirk "look how wonderfully god made bananas peel" Cameron is DEFENDING the idiot.
The fundies may be right. If the end isn't near, it should be.
The GOP theocracy will ban birth control if they can. Back to the O.T. where women are second class citizens. Ryan and Romney will lie and spin this issue to get elected.

It will not stop there. Gop will say b.s. to get the seniors and hispanics to vote for them.

Romney even admitted he will say whatever he has to be expediently successful politically.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/...

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Manchester, KY

#86090 Aug 22, 2012
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Such appalling ignorance from an elected member of our government.
ANY woman who votes for this a$$hole should have her head examined.
(And honestly, any MAN also.)
And look.... http://www.examiner.com/article/kirk-cameron-...
Kirk "look how wonderfully god made bananas peel" Cameron is DEFENDING the idiot.
The fundies may be right. If the end isn't near, it should be.
It is a ignorant idea but it's a long held one... Akins is far from the first to think so... Many well noted scientist of the past thought it also...

As far as Legitimate Rape... I don't actually see the issue... If a girl has sex and then later claims she was raped (I know of many cases) then her claims of rape are not Legitimate... After hearing what he stated several times that is what he said... Now in a Legitimate Rape (as opposed to claim of rape that was in fact consensual) he is far from a Scientist and as I said there have been several scientific writings making that point...

From the "The Week"

How long has this no-pregnancy-in-rape theory been around?
"The idea that rape victims cannot get pregnant has long roots," says Vanessa Heggie at Britain's The Guardian. Think 13th century. One of the earliest British legal texts — Fleta, from about 1290 — has this familiar-sounding clause: "If, however, the woman should have conceived at the time alleged in the appeal, it abates, for without a woman's consent she could not conceive." Samuel Farr's Elements of Medical Jurisprudence, a treatise from 1785 (second edition 1814), elaborates: "For without an excitation of lust, or the enjoyment of pleasure in the venereal act, no conception can probably take place. So that if an absolute rape were to be perpetrated, it is not likely she would become pregnant."

What's the medical underpinning of this theory?
From medieval times until the 19th century, doctors and laypeople alike widely believed that women only conceived if they had an orgasm, since the presumed female "seed" — needed to complement the male sperm to achieve pregnancy — was thought be secreted only during sexual climax. "By logical extension, then," says Heggie, "if a woman became pregnant, she must have experienced orgasm, and therefore could not have been the victim of an 'absolute rape'."

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#86091 Aug 22, 2012
Tom Head, Texas Judge: Obama Reelection Could Lead To 'Civil War,' I'm Ready To 'Take Up Arms'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/tom-...

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#86092 Aug 22, 2012
Republican Rep. Mike Coffman saying about President Barack Obama that "in his heart, he's not an American,"

Congressman Mike Coffman sounds like a prisoner of war reeling off his name, rank and serial number in an interview with 9News about his comments on President Obama only Coffman’s answer to every question is,“I stand by my statement that I misspoke, and I apologize.”

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2012/05/2...

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