Group hailed for anti-casino efforts in Gettysburg

Whoop-dee-doo. Who cares about these bunch of self-important do-gooder busybodies??

They fought the casino, but what did they protect or preserve? There is still that same hotel that has been there for almost 40 years.

Deja vu wrote:

They fought the casino, but what did they protect or preserve? There is still that same hotel that has been there for almost 40 years.

yes but nothing recent has been disturb. Forty years ago preservation wasn't formost on people's minds. Now, however we've been enlightened to preserving our past.

Dubey Amsterdam wrote:

<quoted text>yes but nothing recent has been disturb. Forty years ago preservation wasn't formost on people's minds. Now, however we've been enlightened to preserving our past.

Well, Dubey, I don't know what you've been smokin' but there has been more than 6000 acres preserved within the boundaries of the GNMP. And I can remember as a child participating in the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. You do the math. The "past" has been adequately preserved. The livelihoods of the residents of Gettysburg have not.

Dubey Amsterdam wrote:

<quoted text>yes but nothing recent has been disturb. Forty years ago preservation wasn't formost on people's minds. Now, however we've been enlightened to preserving our past.

Dubey, may I ask where you are located? Have you ever been to Gettysburg? First, the proposed casino was going into an existing building with no new excavation. The foot print of that building was not going to change but it was going to be completely renovated. New life was going to be given to a building that is now as I understand it, only open for special events and private parties.

A building I might add that can’t be seen from any point on the Gettysburg National Military Park, or from any of the existing tour routs.

Nothing recently disturbed? Well maybe not in the last week. But lets just look at new construction since the talk of the first casino in 2006. One new hotel on land that would have been directly adjacent to that casino. Two new hotels and a theater across the street from that proposal. A new medical center also in that vicinity. A new sports complex at the Gettysburg College. AndThose are just the things I can think of since the first attempt.

Preserving our past? As stated 6,000 acres of land preserved within the Gettysburg National Military Park.

I assume you believe that preservation of the past should be done at all cost, including the no respect or regard for those who are attempting to live in the vicinity.

How important was it to preserve this building that is basically vacant and has no historical significance to the American Civil War, or the Battle of Gettysburg?

all well and good for the chick who is in charge with her full-time government bennie job, completely intact with va vacation package. But what about the residents of Gettysburg, who pay taxes and just barely are surviving on a daily basis??

Pink Eye, Now ThatsEntertainmen, Niles, and Fire Marshal Bill. This would be a good thread to post your casino discussions. This thread is about the casino.

And for Now ThatsEntertainmen, Niles, and Fire Marshal Bill, it looks like this is the location to attack the NCG group.

I agree Deja vu. Personally though, I don't like the word "attack". I would prefer the term discuss or debate.

Now, I would agree with you, but it is difficult to debate with some of those opposing the casino. If they are on one of their own forms they just delete any statement that questions or opposes their point of view.

Some have come to forms that supported the casino, but there as on these public forms, as soon as they present their point, and disagreement is brought up, or a good point opposing their opinion, and everyone does not bow down and admit that they are so correct and anyone who supports the casino is nothing but worthless trash, they immediately resort to personal attacks and name calling and then leave.

I have had debate with some of the opposite opinion in person and have found most of them to be reasonable people. We may not agree, but non of those I have talked with in person have called me names or insulted my intelligence.

Fire Marshal Bill wrote:

Now, I would agree with you, but it is difficult to debate with some of those opposing the casino. If they are on one of their own forms they just delete any statement that questions or opposes their point of view.
Some have come to forms that supported the casino, but there as on these public forms, as soon as they present their point, and disagreement is brought up, or a good point opposing their opinion, and everyone does not bow down and admit that they are so correct and anyone who supports the casino is nothing but worthless trash, they immediately resort to personal attacks and name calling and then leave.
I have had debate with some of the opposite opinion in person and have found most of them to be reasonable people. We may not agree, but non of those I have talked with in person have called me names or insulted my intelligence.

It certainly would appear that Pink Eye is a prime example of that type of behavior. And it also appears that she is more deeply entrenched in the NCG cause than she once admitted. So, I imagine that we will more than likely continue to have conversations among ourselves.

NowThatsEntertainment wrote:

<quoted text>
It certainly would appear that Pink Eye is a prime example of that type of behavior. And it also appears that she is more deeply entrenched in the NCG cause than she once admitted. So, I imagine that we will more than likely continue to have conversations among ourselves.

The interesting thing is that most who will hold a civil debate, and do have some good points will make every effort to let you know that they have nothing to do with NCG, and many will indicate that they possibly dislike their tactics more than those who supported the project.

I have had many who opposed the casino tell me that they also agreed with some of my points but just plain didn't want the casino.

Pink Eye your post # 623 from the other thread, you do have a way of making friends don’t you? Do you greet everyone you meet on the street by immediately attempting to offend them?
Did anyone ever say Gettysburg is a hole, besides you that is.? Please show me where that was said. The fact that anyone in any community wants to see things improve does not mean they are completely dissatisfied with everything as it is. If they had that feeling I am sure they would leave if they have any ambition at all. And there have been people leave Gettysburg and Adams County because they were not happy with the job market, or opportunities for entertainment or recreation.

I believe in post 627 of that thread FMB gave you a site to check activities available in this area throughout the year. I tried to follow his reference and got nothing, but did do a quick search for the Gettysburg Convention and Visitors Bureau (www.gettysburg.tr avel) and on their Event Calendar I only saw one weekend between now and the end of April 2012 with nothing listed.
Pink Eye Post # 628, I am glad you had a good time at Jim Thorp, and there are things going on at various times of the year in almost every community in the country. Have you ever heard of Pippenfest in Fairfield, or Colorfest in Thurmont, or Colonial Days in East Berlin? Those are small towns in our area that have events to draw people in.

And your comment about cheapening the area with a casino is your idea, and one not shared by everyone. You may be interested to know that this summer I spoke with tourist and re-enactors some of which said that they would have visited the casino if there was one. Apparently you were not familiar with the plans for the casino. Were you aware that it was in a location that it would not be seen from anyplace on the Gettysburg National Military Park? Were you aware that it could not be seen from any of the current tour routes? Were you aware that the building housing the casino can’t even be seen from the Emmitsburg Road except some times of the year when there are no leaves on the trees, and even then someone must know just where to look. Are you aware that it was to go into a building that is basically vacant , and is only open for special events and private parties? So to have a facelift given to that building would possibly have been an improvement to the community.

Pink Eye, your post # 629 yes tourism is down, yes casino visitors could be classed as tourist. Now, that would be two tourist attractions in the area. I would imagine if you were to go to Williamsburg Virginia and remove either Bush Gardens or Colonial Williamsburg you would find the attendance at the other falling also. There are some but very few people who plan their vacation based on only one draw.

From what I have read in the reports of other casinos in Pennsylvania they are all doing pretty good. I have also seen reports from local Chamber of Commerce’s in those communities with casinos indicating that the casinos have not taken anything from the local community businesses, and many indicate that things have improved.

You attack the “high paying jobs” do you have any idea what the tourist related jobs in the area pay? Most are minimum wage jobs that are only for six to eight months a year. So even if those jobs are minimum wage they will be 12 month a year jobs. I feel sure that if they can’t get people to fill the jobs at the wages they are offering they will have to raise what they offer or go out of business.

in Post 624, I will agree from my experiences and observations that tourism is down. This is the first year in many that I have seen empty parking spaces downtown in the summer, but then again the various road construction problems may have been a contribution.

I also agree that the young folks in the do not as a rule have the interest in history that they have in the past, but then again maybe not. Why should I drive to Gettysburg when I can purchase any number of DVDs and get a virtual tour and I can go on line and view all of the monuments and get as much information as any guide (and I don’t mean to belittle the guides, but they only have so much time and can only cover a certain amount of information in that time). And I can do this when it works into my schedule. I can sit in Vermont in the middle of a snow storm and turn on my computer and go to the internet and view any portion of Gettysburg in on a nice summer day.

On the other hand for some this internet and printed information will draw them because some will want to see in person what they have read about.

I do agree with you that we need more to draw tourist and things to keep them here for a longer period of time. You don’t mention it, but even in families there are different interest. My interest has pretty much been history for as long as I can remember, but my wife does not share that interest and until a few years ago neither did my children. So when we would take vacations we would look for a location that would offer something for everyone. Perhaps there is a family out there where the children are interested in history but the parents aren’t? If the children are old enough maybe the parents will drop them off in town to visit the museums and take the tours, while mom and dad visit the casino. Or maybe there is a husband and wife where one is interested in history and the other isn’t?

I believe someone else mentioned that not everyone is a die hard historian, and on extremely hot days or in rainy weather or cold weather they may want something else to do, and a casino may be an option for them.

In your post # 630, you mention that Pennsylvania casinos and New Jersey casinos are run differently. I believe you were referring to the legislation that controls them. I’m not sure of just how New Jersey is regulated, but in Pennsylvania the slots are taxed at 58% from the gross. The regulations also require that a certain amount of that be ear marked for the local and county governments depending on the class of government, and a certain amount targeted for education. I’m not sure if New Jersey does that or not.

Now before someone jumps on that statement, I realize that the money isn’t just given over to the municipalities, they have to request it from a fund and relate the expense to a casino related issue. But a good writer can relate most anything to the casino with some experience I am sure.

I agree with the job and salaries. As I recall Mason Dixon said they would pay a wage comparable to similar jobs in the area. That sounds pretty fare to me. Do I work at the casino for X number of dollars an hour or do the same job for someone else for the same amount of pay. It is the choice of the worker where they will work and what they will work for. There is also talk, of low level or demeaning jobs at the casino. Do these jobs not exist at other locations in the community? Does nobody clean the toilets or take out the trash at McDonalds or the Lincoln Dinner?

Here is an example of the discussion going on in another thread called "Bike Week Parade Cancelled" I agree with Deja Vu that the topic is more appropriate here. If you are so inclined go to this thread and start about post 600 for some interesting discussion. Let's keep the Bike Week Parade topic on topic.

Pink Eye wrote:
<quoted text>YO??? Is that your little attempt at being smooth? LOL good one. OK, I have to ask the question prior to Jim Thorpe being named Jim Thorpe, that struggling little town along the Lehigh River, exactly what made it so famous? And by your posting your saying that Jim Thorpe is more famous then Gettysburg? And you think I'm stupid? If that's the case you must be wearing adult diapers and drinking your coffee from a sippy cup. It was originally called Mauch Chunk but changed its name to Jim Thorpe because the athelete would be buried there, blah blah blah. But, you know all that, I hope. So, I am assuming you've heard of Lehigh Coal and Navigation, only because you're from PA. Why don't you fly on out to Washington state and ask someone on the street if they've heard of Jim Thorpe PA the town or the athlete, and what it and him are famous for, see what you get. Then, ask if they've heard of Gettysburg PA and what its famous for, and see what you get.
So, here is my point about me caring if some local wants a casino job. Its LOW PAYING, it won't pay the rent, give a QUALITY way of life etc. Wouldn't you rather have some business/industry come in that offered higher end better paying jobs?
Yo! lol. Just mimicking the style of one NCG's very own members. He's a big poster on their sites.
What in the world about my post would make you say, "And by your posting your saying that Jim Thorpe is more famous then Gettysburg?". I said nothing of the sort. Please ratchet up your understanding a bit. You draw some whacky conclusions. I simply said it was a famous town before all of the events that they use now to draw tourists.
People accross the country certainly know who Jim Thorpe is.
You don't get it about the pay do you? How do you know the jobs are low paying? Do you have a list of a casinos payroll? If you do then I'm sure you'll see some high paying jobs in there. Sure there are menial ones that PAY THE PREVAILING WAGE FOR THE JOB. What is wrong with that? What business is it of yours if someone wants that job? That is their business, not mine or yours. Are you the dictator of what jobs people should take now?
I'd rather have the casino AND other businesses. Pretty short sighted of someone to reject the casino because they think other businesses are better.

Here is an example of the discussion going on in another thread called "Bike Week Parade Cancelled" I agree with Deja Vu that the topic is more appropriate here. If you are so inclined go to this thread and start about post 600 for some interesting discussion. Let's keep the Bike Week Parade topic on topic.
Pink Eye wrote:
<quoted text>YO??? Is that your little attempt at being smooth? LOL good one. OK, I have to ask the question prior to Jim Thorpe being named Jim Thorpe, that struggling little town along the Lehigh River, exactly what made it so famous? And by your posting your saying that Jim Thorpe is more famous then Gettysburg? And you think I'm stupid? If that's the case you must be wearing adult diapers and drinking your coffee from a sippy cup. It was originally called Mauch Chunk but changed its name to Jim Thorpe because the athelete would be buried there, blah blah blah. But, you know all that, I hope. So, I am assuming you've heard of Lehigh Coal and Navigation, only because you're from PA. Why don't you fly on out to Washington state and ask someone on the street if they've heard of Jim Thorpe PA the town or the athlete, and what it and him are famous for, see what you get. Then, ask if they've heard of Gettysburg PA and what its famous for, and see what you get.
So, here is my point about me caring if some local wants a casino job. Its LOW PAYING, it won't pay the rent, give a QUALITY way of life etc. Wouldn't you rather have some business/industry come in that offered higher end better paying jobs?
Yo! lol. Just mimicking the style of one NCG's very own members. He's a big poster on their sites.
Nile responded
What in the world about my post would make you say, "And by your posting your saying that Jim Thorpe is more famous then Gettysburg?". I said nothing of the sort. Please ratchet up your understanding a bit. You draw some whacky conclusions. I simply said it was a famous town before all of the events that they use now to draw tourists.
People accross the country certainly know who Jim Thorpe is.
You don't get it about the pay do you? How do you know the jobs are low paying? Do you have a list of a casinos payroll? If you do then I'm sure you'll see some high paying jobs in there. Sure there are menial ones that PAY THE PREVAILING WAGE FOR THE JOB. What is wrong with that? What business is it of yours if someone wants that job? That is their business, not mine or yours. Are you the dictator of what jobs people should take now?
I'd rather have the casino AND other businesses. Pretty short sighted of someone to reject the casino because they think other businesses are better.
Post edited for poster clarity in response.

Fire Marshal Bill, and Nile, may I ask just how you have come to the conclusion that tourism is down? There is no “gate fee” to get onto the battlefield, so there is no accurate number for the amount of people who tour the battlefield.

Now the Apple Harvest does have a gate fee and they can tell you how many people paid admission, but there is no such thing for the National Park.

I use one example of the Colorfest in Thurmont this year. I have spoken with people who worked at two different stands. One tells me that their sales were up almost 50% over last year, while the other tells me their sales were down 20%. Now was attendance up or down, or did the people attending just have different taste and interest this year?

Fire Marshal Bill in your post # 627 I don’t know what happened to your link I am assuming (and we know what happens when one assumes) that you were referring to the tourist and convention bureau, that was the only calendar of events I could find besides that of the National Park but if I was wrong please correct me.

I do agree that we have many events in the community, including not Adams County Pennsylvania, but our neighboring counties that would POSSIBLY contribute to the success of a casino in the area. This year the weather wasn’t all that bad for Apple Harvest, but they did have some rain. I can just imagine someone visiting and now wanting to walk around in the mud, stopping at the casino for a while instead of going straight home. I can also see someone visiting the casino and seeing some advertisement about the Apple Harvest and going there for a while to see what is going on and maybe putting those weekends on their schedule for next years visit.

I can’t 100% agree with you that having a casino locally will encourage people to spend longer than one day when attending these local events, but if only one or two spend some extra time what the heck. And maybe, just maybe they will tell friends and we will get that couple where one will visit the local festival while the other visits the casino.

I can also see someone visiting the casino and discovering the other things we have to offer.

But tell me, do you actually think that having a casino in the area will attract new businesses, or other attractions?

Pink Eye posted in #631 on Bike Week Parade cancelled:
So, here is my point about me caring if some local wants a casino job. Its LOW PAYING, it won't pay the rent, give a QUALITY way of life etc. Wouldn't you rather have some business/industry come in that offered higher end better paying jobs?

So here's my point about this post:
A quality standard of life should not be based on what YOU think is appropriate. And if you can find a high end business or industry that will provide these high paying family sustaining jobs on all levels by all means bring it on.

Deja vu wrote:

Fire Marshal Bill, and Nile, may I ask just how you have come to the conclusion that tourism is down? There is no “gate fee” to get onto the battlefield, so there is no accurate number for the amount of people who tour the battlefield.
Now the Apple Harvest does have a gate fee and they can tell you how many people paid admission, but there is no such thing for the National Park.
I use one example of the Colorfest in Thurmont this year. I have spoken with people who worked at two different stands. One tells me that their sales were up almost 50% over last year, while the other tells me their sales were down 20%. Now was attendance up or down, or did the people attending just have different taste and interest this year?
Fire Marshal Bill in your post # 627 I don’t know what happened to your link I am assuming (and we know what happens when one assumes) that you were referring to the tourist and convention bureau, that was the only calendar of events I could find besides that of the National Park but if I was wrong please correct me.
I do agree that we have many events in the community, including not Adams County Pennsylvania, but our neighboring counties that would POSSIBLY contribute to the success of a casino in the area. This year the weather wasn’t all that bad for Apple Harvest, but they did have some rain. I can just imagine someone visiting and now wanting to walk around in the mud, stopping at the casino for a while instead of going straight home. I can also see someone visiting the casino and seeing some advertisement about the Apple Harvest and going there for a while to see what is going on and maybe putting those weekends on their schedule for next years visit.
I can’t 100% agree with you that having a casino locally will encourage people to spend longer than one day when attending these local events, but if only one or two spend some extra time what the heck. And maybe, just maybe they will tell friends and we will get that couple where one will visit the local festival while the other visits the casino.
I can also see someone visiting the casino and discovering the other things we have to offer.
But tell me, do you actually think that having a casino in the area will attract new businesses, or other attractions?

Hello Deja

I base it on two things.

1. The National Park Service website. They show a decline. No organization goes out of their way to show a decline. The fact that they show one speaks volumes.
2. Personal observation. I am a long time Adams county resident. Things are not as bustling. Also, the amount f vacant store fronts during "busy" season was really something to behold.

Nile wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello Deja
I base it on two things.
1. The National Park Service website. They show a decline. No organization goes out of their way to show a decline. The fact that they show one speaks volumes.
2. Personal observation. I am a long time Adams county resident. Things are not as bustling. Also, the amount f vacant store fronts during "busy" season was really something to behold.

I can agree with and understand the vacant store fronts and I also see them. But I know some of those are as a result of poor business planning. People visit Gettysburg in the summer and see the streets full of people and think they will do well in business. But they don't know the reality that those streets are only full part of the year, and very little visitation during the winter. They are not prepared for those lean months.

I also have to say I question how the park service gets their numbers, and I understand that in the past few years they have changed the way they calculate the visitation.

Again, with no gate fee, how can they be sure?

Deja vu wrote:

<quoted text>
I can agree with and understand the vacant store fronts and I also see them. But I know some of those are as a result of poor business planning. People visit Gettysburg in the summer and see the streets full of people and think they will do well in business. But they don't know the reality that those streets are only full part of the year, and very little visitation during the winter. They are not prepared for those lean months.
I also have to say I question how the park service gets their numbers, and I understand that in the past few years they have changed the way they calculate the visitation.
Again, with no gate fee, how can they be sure?

I would just say that the store fronts were vacant DURING the busy season. Imagine what the off season will bring. Likely more vacancies not less.

By the way this past weekend was a big weekend for the college thus the high number of people about town. Homecoming as well as family day or something.

As far as how the park service takes their numbers. I can not attest to how they do it but I can tell you this. It behooves them to show a growing park visitation as opposed to a shrinking one. What parks would you think would get more federal support? If it was not really dropping it would not be shown as dropping.