Haha

United States

#187 Mar 15, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
I was just thinking.. when you say a mens club do you mean like a strip club?
no no no married men would vist a strip club its just a place where only the traveller men go our women dont go to the dollar
Tim Pat Coogan

Hollywood, FL

#188 Mar 15, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
I was just thinking.. when you say a mens club do you mean like a strip club?
OH DEAR GOD NO!..LOL..No just not a lot of non-Travellers go there, and Traveller women don't go to the bar..I should say being that your Irish you'll be treated like a long lost sister..The boys will want to talk your ear off about the old country..I doubt they'll let you buy a drink..
lass

Pasadena, TX

#189 Mar 15, 2013
Haha wrote:
<quoted text> no no no married men would vist a strip club its just a place where only the traveller men go our women dont go to the dollar
Why? Do your women not drink? Im sorry to be so nosy but. Ive only recently heard of I. T.s. my grandmother never spoke of it. Are women allowed at all? I tried to google the bar and some of the reviews.came back it was a gay bar... im not.thinking that's true though.
lass

Pasadena, TX

#190 Mar 15, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
<quoted text>OH DEAR GOD NO!..LOL..No just not a lot of non-Travellers go there, and Traveller women don't go to the bar..I should say being that your Irish you'll be treated like a long lost sister..The boys will want to talk your ear off about the old country..I doubt they'll let you buy a drink..
well if thier women dont go to the bar wouldnt they treat.me as an outsider, or woth me being irish think i shouldnt be there?
Tim Pat Coogan

Hollywood, FL

#191 Mar 15, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? Do your women not drink? Im sorry to be so nosy but. Ive only recently heard of I. T.s. my grandmother never spoke of it. Are women allowed at all? I tried to google the bar and some of the reviews.came back it was a gay bar... im not.thinking that's true though.
All I can say is who ever did that either 1# Hates the I.T.s or 2# Reallyyyyy Realyyy hates gays!...lmao...It's just our tradition. Men , women and the drink..Things happen, we're bad enough on our own..lol
lass

Pasadena, TX

#192 Mar 15, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
<quoted text>All I can say is who ever did that either 1# Hates the I.T.s or 2# Reallyyyyy Realyyy hates gays!...lmao...It's just our tradition. Men , women and the drink..Things happen, we're bad enough on our own..lol
i have so much to learn
Tim Pat Coogan

Hollywood, FL

#193 Mar 15, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text> well if thier women dont go to the bar wouldnt they treat.me as an outsider, or woth me being irish think i shouldnt be there?
It may be a surprise to you Lass, but we are very proud to be Irish..When you walk through that door before you hear a sound you will think your in Ireland to look at the faces, and accents too for that matter..You'll be welcome as the flowers in may..
lass

Pasadena, TX

#194 Mar 15, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
<quoted text>It may be a surprise to you Lass, but we are very proud to be Irish..When you walk through that door before you hear a sound you will think your in Ireland to look at the faces, and accents too for that matter..You'll be welcome as the flowers in may..
That sounds lovely.. males new. Very excited tho want to go there.
lass

Pasadena, TX

#195 Mar 15, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
That sounds lovely.. males new. Very excited tho want to go there.
i meant makes me... not males new lol
lass

Pasadena, TX

#196 Mar 15, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
<quoted text>OH DEAR GOD NO!..LOL..No just not a lot of non-Travellers go there, and Traveller women don't go to the bar..I should say being that your Irish you'll be treated like a long lost sister..The boys will want to talk your ear off about the old country..I doubt they'll let you buy a drink..
May i ask what the difference. is between I.T's and the Irish? Or is there a difference
Tim Pat Coogan

Hollywood, FL

#197 Mar 15, 2013
Funny you should ask..A recent British University study of Travellers d.n.a. throughout the island found two things-First the Travellers are natives, home grown..Second that they seperated from the Irish Settled population some where between 1 to 2 thousand years ago..Or as one researcher put it "The Travellers are as different from the settled population, as the Icelanders are from the Danes..The same, but different?...
lass

Pasadena, TX

#198 Mar 15, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
Funny you should ask..A recent British University study of Travellers d.n.a. throughout the island found two things-First the Travellers are natives, home grown..Second that they seperated from the Irish Settled population some where between 1 to 2 thousand years ago..Or as one researcher put it "The Travellers are as different from the settled population, as the Icelanders are from the Danes..The same, but different?...
But what makes them travellers? Surely it isnt just from them moving around alot.. I mean my family and i moved a lot when i growing up bit we werent travellers
itzwitchy

Durham, NC

#199 Mar 16, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
But what makes them travellers? Surely it isnt just from them moving around alot.. I mean my family and i moved a lot when i growing up bit we werent travellers
I see nobody has been around to answer your question yet. It's hardly my place to speak on behalf of Tim, whose culture you were asking directly about but this subject just happens to be exactly in the fields I studied in college. I'll leave the more personal and cultural stories up to Tim or another IT but I can stumble through adding a bit of the historical background and genetics to what makes a Traveller, a Traveller and distinguishes them from the rest of the Irish population. I might easily blow up your brain with the little I can still remember from those college years but I will try to oversimplify as much as I can.
Two thousand years ago everyone in Ireland belonged to different-sized clans made up of families who only interacted and produced offspring with members of their own group. Some were the fully nomadic clans traveling the Irish roads including the original group of today's Travellers. Others were settled clans or much larger groups of many settled clans and they lived surrounded by huge stone walls and behind great fortresses. All the clans had the same chromosomal components that identified them as genetically 'Irish' settled or nomadic. The same holds true today. Anyone who qualifies as 'Irish' today has the same chromosomes as the Irish did 2000 years ago and that includes the Travellers.
A lot happens in 2000 years but I'll skip to the chase. While the much larger general Irish population has homogenized over time into relatively similar amounts of the same genetic ingredients that go into being Irish, both good and bad? It's the amounts of those same ingredients that is all out of whack with Travellers and what separates them from the general Irish population genetically today. While everyone else bed-hopped around for 2000 years during invasions, conquerings, maraudings, genocides and dispossessions? The Travellers didn't. They are probably the morphing of other nomadic people together with additions from other refugee clans or families but by and large the Travellers have mostly practiced close-cousin breeding over all this time deliberately to keep solitary, separate and defined from all others. This ends up distinguishing them genetically from the rest of the general Irish population busy swapping DNA with everyone else but ITs.
While all Irish carry a certain trait with a characteristic that could lead to blindness? It rarely occurs in the general population but shows up in the Traveller community at a far greater rate. Ditto for a preponderance for a specific kind of respiratory condition. If it were not for such early tough lives? the Travellers would stay the cream of the crop as far as being the best-looking among all Irish. They just have more of that 'born beautiful' gene' concentrated in their clan than anyone else does among all the rest of the Irish.
The hows and whys of the Travellers' heritage, culture and lifestyle as it has evolved into what it is today is a story I'd feel more comfortable leaving up to an IT if they choose since so many visit this forum. Mine is just rusty academia that happens to pertain to the topic at hand.
I hope I didn't put you in a coma.
Tim Pat Coogan

Miami, FL

#200 Mar 16, 2013
Yeah thanks for that Witchy..Couple small things that don't exactly fit into modern I.T. life, at least on this side of the pond anyway..I'm unfamiliar with any respiratory or blindness problem...There is one particular disease that largely affects one particular extended family but that's about it..Really close cousin marriages are quite rare now, but as you say nearly everyone is related in one way or another...I share a Great , Grandparent with my wife, that'd be fairly common among us.Would also explain the same names again & again or some variation thereof..
lass

Pasadena, TX

#201 Mar 16, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
Yeah thanks for that Witchy..Couple small things that don't exactly fit into modern I.T. life, at least on this side of the pond anyway..I'm unfamiliar with any respiratory or blindness problem...There is one particular disease that largely affects one particular extended family but that's about it..Really close cousin marriages are quite rare now, but as you say nearly everyone is related in one way or another...I share a Great , Grandparent with my wife, that'd be fairly common among us.Would also explain the same names again & again or some variation thereof..
So is it the last name that defines if your a traveller? Mine is Collins.
Tim Pat Coogan

Hollywood, FL

#202 Mar 16, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
So is it the last name that defines if your a traveller? Mine is Collins.
No, loads of Irish people have the surname Carroll for instance..The I.T.s are a separate Ethno/Cultural group..Just as a aside Charles Carroll was the only R.C. signer of The Declaration of Independence, and one the wealthiest men in colonial America..
itzwitchy

Durham, NC

#203 Mar 16, 2013
lass wrote:
<quoted text>
So is it the last name that defines if your a traveller? Mine is Collins.
Not at all. For example, Gorman is a typical Irish Traveller surname. That does not mean that all Gormans are Travellers or have Traveller descent. There are tons of Gormans all over Ireland (and the world!) whose origins never did have anything to do with the Travellers. Other typically IT surnames are: Costello, Carpenter, Carroll, Lewis, McNalley, Mack, Ohara, Riley, Sherlock, Roche, Sheedy, Joy, Joyce, Hartnett. These are the most predominant surnames but there are certainly many others particularly in Ireland and the UK. Every single one of those names is also commonly found in the general Irish population. The overall population of Ireland is just over 4.5 million people and the IT's account for maybe 30,000 of them. It's the extraordinarily high percentage of those surnames dominating the small IT population that make them notable as 'Traveller names'.

I could be completely wrong but Collins is not one of the names I remember as being IT but even if it is? It's probably no indication you have Traveller blood in your stock. You would have to dig into your own geneology to find out though...you never know!
itzwitchy

Durham, NC

#204 Mar 16, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
<quoted text>No, loads of Irish people have the surname Carroll for instance..The I.T.s are a separate Ethno/Cultural group..Just as a aside Charles Carroll was the only R.C. signer of The Declaration of Independence, and one the wealthiest men in colonial America..
LOL! You and I need to get out of each other's heads and quit reading the same subject matter too! Haha.
Tim Pat Coogan

Hollywood, FL

#205 Mar 16, 2013
Yeah..Did I mention the A.D.D. problem...lol
lass

Pasadena, TX

#206 Mar 16, 2013
Tim Pat Coogan wrote:
Yeah..Did I mention the A.D.D. problem...lol
Thanks.you guys have been very helpful.

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