New abortion law in Ohio today

I think Abortion is wrong because it is killing a helpless baby. and thats my option

Under Ohio law a woman can be driving to an abotion clinic to kill her baby. If on her way someone negligent causes a traffic crash and she loses the baby, the negligent person may be convicted of homicide.

Valerie wrote:

I think Abortion is wrong because it is killing a helpless baby. and thats my option

And you are right.

George Washington wrote:

Under Ohio law a woman can be driving to an abotion clinic to kill her baby. If on her way someone negligent causes a traffic crash and she loses the baby, the negligent person may be convicted of homicide.

See, the babies life does have value. I'll bet the abortionist would be mad that the girl is not going to give him the money.

<<I think Abortion is wrong because it is killing a helpless baby. and thats my option >>

so why don't you call 911 and report a baby murder in progress at PPH? Isn't it your moral duty to report any crime in progress that you have knowledge of? Killing a "baby" IS a crime in Ohio, right?

I should warn you that Ohio has very serious penalties for filing false police reports!

<<See, the babies life does have value.>>

Those fetal homicide laws only protect the woman's right to have an abortion done when she chooses to have one. She also has the right to choose to have a legal abortion performed at a licensed facility, not at the hands of a drunk driver while she sits in the front seat of her car..

Fetal homicide laws have nothing to do with the "value" of a fetus.

Fetal homicide laws protect womens' rights. That's why each and every fetal homicide law has a "legal abortion exception."

BobbysLaw666 wrote:

<<See, the babies life does have value.>>
Those fetal homicide laws only protect the woman's right to have an abortion done when she chooses to have one. She also has the right to choose to have a legal abortion performed at a licensed facility, not at the hands of a drunk driver while she sits in the front seat of her car..
Fetal homicide laws have nothing to do with the "value" of a fetus.
Fetal homicide laws protect womens' rights. That's why each and every fetal homicide law has a "legal abortion exception."

Get on one side of the fence or the other. It is either a life or not. What about the father's rights? He has NO say as to if a baby lives or dies yet can be ordered to pay support for 18 plus years.

rude dude wrote:

<quoted text>
Get on one side of the fence or the other. It is either a life or not. What about the father's rights? He has NO say as to if a baby lives or dies yet can be ordered to pay support for 18 plus years.

Men don't have the right to force women to gestate OR abort a pregnancy. Deal with it.

If you have problems with either abortion or paying child support, make sure you know a woman's views about pregnancy, birth and motherhood BEFORE you sleep with her. It really isn't that difficult, you know. But if you can't be bothered to do this because you're just too lazy, then don't go crying to everyone when the outcome isn't what YOU wanted.

Hi Ocean. Glad to "see" you again. Did you catch the Tequila Cookies recipe I posted on the Middle thread? It's a real winner. Note especially for whom it was intended; I hope every one of the trolls tries it, since if they are smashed and passed out, we won't be bothered by them for a few hours. Teehee.
I got a few days off work for the fall term-break, so I have a little time to reconnect with my "known associates" in cyberspace. Hope you have a great day!

rude dude wrote:

<quoted text>
Get on one side of the fence or the other. It is either a life or not. What about the father's rights? He has NO say as to if a baby lives or dies yet can be ordered to pay support for 18 plus years.

When he is gestating a fetus, it will be his right to decide whether or not to carry it to term. He doesn't have the right to force her to abort, either. Does that also get your panties in a wad? And of course he'll be expected to pay child support: there is a CHILD involved at that point, not a fetus. It's not about mom's or dad's convenience or beliefs when it comes to the financial support of a CHILD. Children cost money to raise, and it must be the responsibility of both parents to come up with it.

Besides which, whoever told you life was fair LIED TO YOU. Get over it already. You think we as women ASKED to be the gestators? Not on your life. It's a pretty crappy deal, really. I think we should have been created more like Emperor Penguins, who share equal responsibility for the developing egg. But that wasn't my call, so I guess I'll just have to GET OVER IT right?

Ocean56 wrote:

<quoted text>
Men don't have the right to force women to gestate OR abort a pregnancy. Deal with it.
If you have problems with either abortion or paying child support, make sure you know a woman's views about pregnancy, birth and motherhood BEFORE you sleep with her. It really isn't that difficult, you know. But if you can't be bothered to do this because you're just too lazy, then don't go crying to everyone when the outcome isn't what YOU wanted.

It is a double standard. As to find out how she feels about having a child many women have changed their minds. My whole point was that by most state laws the father must pay and is half responsible. If you are an ass-hat liberal that says woman's choice over her body I must ask if you agree the govt. should be allowed to make you take the flu shot? I was watching people with the same "our body our choice" signs opposing the mandatory H1N1 shots.

rude dude wrote:

<quoted text>
It is a double standard. As to find out how she feels about having a child many women have changed their minds. My whole point was that by most state laws the father must pay and is half responsible. If you are an ass-hat liberal that says woman's choice over her body I must ask if you agree the govt. should be allowed to make you take the flu shot? I was watching people with the same "our body our choice" signs opposing the mandatory H1N1 shots.

Who do YOU want to be responsible for a pregnancy (planned or unplanned) if not the mother and the father? The gov't? Just the mother? Friends, family, and the community?

I disagree that the taxpayer pick up the bill but in most cases they do anyway. My point is if the father has no say as to life or death he should not be held finacially. If you go to it is her body then what about charging crackheads with giving birth to crack babies. I also point out the flu shot debate it is your body your right to choose.
Bottom line it is only considered a life if the mother wants to call it a life, otherwise it is a fetus or mass of cells.

rude dude wrote:

I disagree that the taxpayer pick up the bill but in most cases they do anyway. My point is if the father has no say as to life or death he should not be held finacially. If you go to it is her body then what about charging crackheads with giving birth to crack babies. I also point out the flu shot debate it is your body your right to choose.
Bottom line it is only considered a life if the mother wants to call it a life, otherwise it is a fetus or mass of cells.

Any way one looks at it, a man cannot have a legal say over forcing a woman to gestate or abort against her will just because he doesn't want to be held financially responsible. It would actually create a double standard because the woman would lose her rights to personal privacy and bodily autonomy.

IOW, if you were granted the right to force your sex partner to gestate or abort according to YOUR wishes, then SHE would need to be granted similar rights in forcing you to get a vasectomy or not allowing you one against your wishes. jmo

Katie wrote:

<quoted text>
Any way one looks at it, a man cannot have a legal say over forcing a woman to gestate or abort against her will just because he doesn't want to be held financially responsible. It would actually create a double standard because the woman would lose her rights to personal privacy and bodily autonomy.
IOW, if you were granted the right to force your sex partner to gestate or abort according to YOUR wishes, then SHE would need to be granted similar rights in forcing you to get a vasectomy or not allowing you one against your wishes. jmo

Yet another excellent point.

rude dude wrote:

<quoted text>
It is a double standard. As to find out how she feels about having a child many women have changed their minds. My whole point was that by most state laws the father must pay and is half responsible. If you are an ass-hat liberal that says woman's choice over her body I must ask if you agree the govt. should be allowed to make you take the flu shot? I was watching people with the same "our body our choice" signs opposing the mandatory H1N1 shots.

Oh, stop your double standard WHINING. That's right, the WOMAN gets to decide whether she will abort or continue the pregnancy, not you. DEAL with it.

IMO your "the woman can change her mind" b.s. is nothing more than an excuse NOT to bother asking the question, or waiting a little longer before deciding to have sex with someone. If you can't be bothered to do what is necessary to avoid an unwanted pregnancy situation, too bad. The MAN'S sperm is what contributes to pregnancy, so you can decide to be more careful where you deposit it in future.

<<Get on one side of the fence or the other. It is either a life or not.>>

It IS a life... so what... but being a "life" has little bearing on this discussion...

Life is taken every day... do you watch out not to step on the roaches in your home? Do you make sure you don;t step on any ants in your yard?

Do you eat? Virtually everything you eat was once alive.. if you have a tumor, it has living human cells in it... would you leave it in and die because it is alive?

<<< What about the father's rights?>>

He doesn't have any when it comes to a woman's decision to abort or not... if he doesn't like that, he should simply zip up and go on his way. I don't see many men turning down a little on the side, especially if they think they won;t get caught.

Or, you could try to grow a uterus.

If a man becomes gravid and provides life support for his fetus, he has equal rights to abortion!

The fetus has to live off his body for the man to have a say.... When you get that uterus implant, you probably ought to get the vaginal operation too, otherwise, you will need a "C" section if you decide you want to birth your fetus. If you want an abortion, they may be able to do it through your urethra... ooooowwww!

Otherwise, they will have to do a laprascopic procedure to terminate your pregnancy, if that is your choice..

<<<He has NO say as to if a baby lives or dies>>

Once it is a baby he has the same say as anyone else has... It is illegal to kill babies.

If you know a "baby" is about to be killed, you have (at least) a moral duty to go to the authorities. Or you could somehow try to stop the crime yourself.

<<<yet can be ordered to pay support for 18 plus years.>>.

The right to child support is a statutory right of the child. Not the custodial parent's...... the child didn't ask to be born. Both parents are responsible for providing support to the child.

If you don't like paying support for your child, you can petition the court for sole physical custody of the child and sue the mother for her share of the support. It is usually a high hurdle to find the woman unfit as a parent.

You also have the right to terminate your parental rights to the child if you don't want to be involved in any way with your child.

That way, your ex's new loving spouse can adopt and pay to support the child. Then you are off the hook for support. You are also off the hook for visitation.

If you don't give up parental rights, you also have the right to reasonable visitation, if it is in the best interests of the child.

What else would you like to know about father's rights?

Here is a website by an attorney who sells "Father's rights" materials, but it looks like he only is in Louisiana: http://www.fathersrights.org/

Here's a popular father's rights book by a different lawyer: http://www.amazon.com/Fathers-Rights-2E-Inter...

ProChoiceBob666 wrote:

<<Get on one side of the fence or the other. It is either a life or not.>>
It IS a life... so what... but being a "life" has little bearing on this discussion...
Life is taken every day... do you watch out not to step on the roaches in your home? Do you make sure you don;t step on any ants in your yard?
Do you eat? Virtually everything you eat was once alive.. if you have a tumor, it has living human cells in it... would you leave it in and die because it is alive?
<<< What about the father's rights?>>
He doesn't have any when it comes to a woman's decision to abort or not... if he doesn't like that, he should simply zip up and go on his way. I don't see many men turning down a little on the side, especially if they think they won;t get caught.
Or, you could try to grow a uterus.
If a man becomes gravid and provides life support for his fetus, he has equal rights to abortion!
The fetus has to live off his body for the man to have a say.... When you get that uterus implant, you probably ought to get the vaginal operation too, otherwise, you will need a "C" section if you decide you want to birth your fetus. If you want an abortion, they may be able to do it through your urethra... ooooowwww!
Otherwise, they will have to do a laprascopic procedure to terminate your pregnancy, if that is your choice..
<<<He has NO say as to if a baby lives or dies>>
Once it is a baby he has the same say as anyone else has... It is illegal to kill babies.
If you know a "baby" is about to be killed, you have (at least) a moral duty to go to the authorities. Or you could somehow try to stop the crime yourself.
<<<yet can be ordered to pay support for 18 plus years.>>.
The right to child support is a statutory right of the child. Not the custodial parent's...... the child didn't ask to be born. Both parents are responsible for providing support to the child.
If you don't like paying support for your child, you can petition the court for sole physical custody of the child and sue the mother for her share of the support. It is usually a high hurdle to find the woman unfit as a parent.
You also have the right to terminate your parental rights to the child if you don't want to be involved in any way with your child.
That way, your ex's new loving spouse can adopt and pay to support the child. Then you are off the hook for support. You are also off the hook for visitation.
If you don't give up parental rights, you also have the right to reasonable visitation, if it is in the best interests of the child.
What else would you like to know about father's rights?
Here is a website by an attorney who sells "Father's rights" materials, but it looks like he only is in Louisiana: http://www.fathersrights.org/
Here's a popular father's rights book by a different lawyer: http://www.amazon.com/Fathers-Rights-2E-Inter...

Bobby. My hero. I knew this was you without seeing the author's name on the post. You rational, erudite, confident beast. Have the last tequila cookie. You earned it.

Katie wrote:

<quoted text>
Any way one looks at it, a man cannot have a legal say over forcing a woman to gestate or abort against her will just because he doesn't want to be held financially responsible. It would actually create a double standard because the woman would lose her rights to personal privacy and bodily autonomy.
IOW, if you were granted the right to force your sex partner to gestate or abort according to YOUR wishes, then SHE would need to be granted similar rights in forcing you to get a vasectomy or not allowing you one against your wishes. jmo

In all reality, in the context of a married couple, the women has quite a bit of say because she can in fact deny the man from getting a vasectomy. Can the man deny her from getting an abortion?

I guess the bottom line is that you better make sure you know what your partner's views might be, or wrap up your pole before you do the deed. Keep in mind, people have free will so those views could change as the hormones flow.

The rest of you stop being so judgemental! Worry about yourself, your family and making sure your lives are in order before you try and run the lives of others. Regardless of your view, people will do what they want. In the end, we all die and it will get sorted out then. If you believe in God, he'll take care of deciding who's right and wrong.