Millions In Cuts Coming As Levy Fails | WBNS-10TV, Central Ohio...

So the teachers aren't taxpayers? They live in houses too. And I suppose that having a bachelors or masters degree does not qualify them for a little higher pay. Plus keeping up their education throughout their teaching career. For your days worked, yes there are 260 days but you failed to take away the holidays that many people get off like Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. Plus any vacation time. My point about the buses and gas, we all had to pay the 4 bucks a gallon but we had the choice not to drive as much. The schools didn't have that choice. Their miles driven stayed exactly the same. And most of my kids teachers work a lot more than 7.25 hours per day. Maybe people that don't think teacher work hard should try doing their job. Just like some people think that stay at home moms don't have it hard.

Roy, if you think that all a teacher does is open a book and read a story to kids, then I feel sorry for you.

roy wrote:

<quoted text>
It is the average person paying for those high saleries not all people have advanced degrees. Maybe all you high priced overpayed fools that think because you can afford to waste your money that all people can. I for one think 60 k a year is way to much for a person who does nothing mor than talk out of a book to kids. I wish i coulf get 60k a year for reading stories to kids. If you hear of an opening let me know you pompus loser.

I cannot force people to go to college, that is a choice that they have to make and anyone can make that choice. I juggled two jobs, a family and school and got a degree. It just takes some hard work and sacrifice.

They are always hiring for teachers so go back to school and earn it.

Reynoldsburg Res wrote:

It sounds like everyone is against teachers getting raises. Unfortunately we live in a world of competition where people with better skills go where the money is. Do we want unskilled teachers teaching our kids. Everyone I know would like there children to go to college. And with college costs also increasing, I would like my children to have a good education in hopes of getting some kind of scholarship. If the children do not have a good education in school, then it is going to be even harder in college.

I wouldn't say everyone is against teachers getting raises, but many of us are against teachers getting 6-8% each and every year when the average taxpayer's wages have been essentially flat for the past 5 years. Yes, teachers live in houses, pay taxes, and have to buy gasoline, but at least their salaries are guaranteed and have been increasing by leaps and bounds. When 85% of the new levy money goes to pay salaries and benefits and only 15% is used to preserve high-school busing, and sports, and music programs etc., I think people are just fed up with the districts holding us hostage by threatening cuts to the 15% that isn't S&B just to maintain the excessive compensation increases when in reality only 10% is "for the kids" and the rest is for the staff.

As far as kids getting a good education, I'd like to be able to send my kids to college, but every dollar I send to the district unnecessarily is one less dollar I have to put aside for my kids' education. I think 7% raises every year regardless of the economy is unreasonable and while I will support reasonable spending growth through my levy votes, I refuse to pay more taxes simply to fund that kind of excess in my district (which is not Reyn., BTW). The issue for most of us isn't the amount we are paying teachers, it's the rate at which those salaries have been increasing.

I agree with the 7% raise every year being to much regardless of the economy. Getting a raise of 3% plus getting raises for every year you stay with the school district is to much. Maybe the union should take a hard look at themselves. The unions had to make concessions for the car manufacturers.

JMC wrote:

<quoted text>
How much does the average worker with an advanced degree make? That is at least a more fair comparison of salary. Also, the teachers that I know work more than 7.25 hours per day.
Ther really aren't any apples to apples comparisons between schools and business but you can definately get closer than using an average community salary.

JMC: You either completely missed the point of my post or you are intentionally trying to divert attention from that point.

I was in no way comparing salaries to establish a worth or value for any group of people or occupations. I was illustrating that the peopole within the community have an average salary of $18.45/hr. Those same people are being asked/threatened to finance a pay and benefit increase to another group of people, teachers/administrators who have a salary of $47.29/hr.

That being said, if you would prefer a more "apples to apples" comparison of strictly professional/white collar salaries the Manhattan Institute For Policy Research did an excellent study on the subject of salaries for public school teachers a few years ago.

I strongly encourage everyone to check out the following link:
http://www.manhattan-nstitute.org/html/_nypos...

Reynoldsburg Res wrote:

If it doesn't cost that much to educate our children, then why is Reynoldsburg almost the lowest in Franklin County per pupil expenditure. Why are all of the other schools spending more than Reynoldsburg on their students. Reynoldsburg operating millage is the second lowest in Franklin County. But yet we maintain an excellent rating and one of the highest graduation rates in the county. Unfortunately, sometimes people don't understand the difference between operating levies and the bond levies for buildings. When you pay it, it all seems as one big bill. Operating expenses increase and eventually you have to ask for more money to cover those expenses.

The average millage paid for Frankin county school districts is 36.56. Reynoldburg's millage rate is 38.11. Additionally, Reynoldsburg pays a .5% school income tax.

If you think that Expenditures Per Pupil is a valid measurment for the kind of education you can expect consider this:

- your private schools will have lower expenditures per pupil than Reynoldsburg does. Who offers the better eduation?

- do you know which district has the highest expenditures per pupil in Franklin County? It is Columbus Public! Would you prefer your children to be educated there?

I made a mistake in the previous post - the average millage in Frankin County is 39.67 mills, not 36.56....

Reynoldsburg voter wrote:

<quoted text>
JMC: You either completely missed the point of my post or you are intentionally trying to divert attention from that point.
I was in no way comparing salaries to establish a worth or value for any group of people or occupations. I was illustrating that the peopole within the community have an average salary of $18.45/hr. Those same people are being asked/threatened to finance a pay and benefit increase to another group of people, teachers/administrators who have a salary of $47.29/hr.
That being said, if you would prefer a more "apples to apples" comparison of strictly professional/white collar salaries the Manhattan Institute For Policy Research did an excellent study on the subject of salaries for public school teachers a few years ago.
I strongly encourage everyone to check out the following link:
http://www.manhattan-nstitute.org/html/_nypos...

I may have read more into your comment than you intended but my point is that you cannot use a comparison between the public as a whole and select group of degreed individuals; The comparison is not fair. Using that logic, we wouldn't give teachers a raise until the public average catches up.

Figuring out out what the correct salary/benefit for Teachers should be based on what we think the position should be paid. Personally, I think that teachers are compensated fairly and it is time to reign in the large raises. We also need to look at the benefit packages and do a better job aligning them with the private sector.

Reynoldsburg voter wrote:

<quoted text>
...That being said, if you would prefer a more "apples to apples" comparison of strictly professional/white collar salaries the Manhattan Institute For Policy Research did an excellent study on the subject of salaries for public school teachers a few years ago.
I strongly encourage everyone to check out the following link:
http://www.manhattan-nstitute.org/html/_nypos...

Somehow your link got scrambled a bit. Try this one:

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypo...

Bruce J,

Just wanted to give you a shout out and thank you for finding the EducateHilliard and EducateWorthington sites. After corresponding a bit with people there, I purchased the EducateSouth-Western.org domain and am planning on getting something started.

I'll be spending my 3 hour plane flight tomorrow going through the last 7 years worth of financial reports from the district :)

Redistributor wrote:

There are a lot of section 8 housing and apartment rentals that HUD has quietly moved into this side of town. That's a lot of new students who's parent(s)are not required to pay school tax. I think when HUD decides that it's moral obligation is to place low income rental housing in middle working class neighborhoods, that they should also be required to pick up the tab for educating those children.

This is why when I vote NO, people think I'm against the children - WRONG! This is where most people have a problem with these levys. I do believe we need "well-paid" teachers, the best, most advanced learning tools, bussing, etc. I still do believe there is a lot of waste that doesn't fall into these 3 categories (so use the money you already have & cut some adms/salaries). But, OK - you'all have listed a lot of stats here (above) and you all can discuss/etc. The biggest issue of all is as this section 8, HUD, welfare, apartments with 4-8 kids, that very little to no taxes vote on these issues. Hard working young, senior citizens with no kids in school, property owners are being exhausted & paying the whole mother load! It's unconsitutinal - it's not gonna keep working for ya'll. Again, the "yes" & "no" voters need to get together (instead of debating the issue with each other, and go downtown, start aworking on getting it fixed. Strickland promised to do this but - OH WELL???????

I had a lot of mis-spelled & missing punctuation in my comment - sorry - I didn't proof read it. I still know I made my point.

A yes vote on a school levy issue is a vote of confidence in the current school funding system. If you are not happy with Ohio's system and think the sytsem needs to change VOTE NO.

Yes or No wrote:

<quoted text>
This is why when I vote NO, people think I'm against the children - WRONG! This is where most people have a problem with these levys. I do believe we need "well-paid" teachers, the best, most advanced learning tools, bussing, etc. I still do believe there is a lot of waste that doesn't fall into these 3 categories (so use the money you already have & cut some adms/salaries). But, OK - you'all have listed a lot of stats here (above) and you all can discuss/etc. The biggest issue of all is as this section 8, HUD, welfare, apartments with 4-8 kids, that very little to no taxes vote on these issues. Hard working young, senior citizens with no kids in school, property owners are being exhausted & paying the whole mother load! It's unconsitutinal - it's not gonna keep working for ya'll. Again, the "yes" & "no" voters need to get together (instead of debating the issue with each other, and go downtown, start aworking on getting it fixed. Strickland promised to do this but - OH WELL???????

I don't think that any reasonable person will disagree that the system is broken. One of the other main problems is the people at the extremes. Many of these people do not seem to care about fixing the problems, they just go vote and call the other side names. I see this as a larger problem than welfare, apartment dwellers, etc.

I think that we need to quit seeing it as a South-Western, Reynoldsburg, Worthington, etc. problem and start seeing it as an education problem. One district will not fix it (although a good model would be nice).

Know the facts wrote:

A yes vote on a school levy issue is a vote of confidence in the current school funding system. If you are not happy with Ohio's system and think the sytsem needs to change VOTE NO.

Voting NO hasn't seemed to fix anything in the districts that tried. Find or start a group geared towards fixing the problem and take some action.

JMC wrote:

Bruce J,
Just wanted to give you a shout out and thank you for finding the EducateHilliard and EducateWorthington sites. After corresponding a bit with people there, I purchased the EducateSouth-Western.org domain and am planning on getting something started.
I'll be spending my 3 hour plane flight tomorrow going through the last 7 years worth of financial reports from the district :)

JMC: Great news! Glad to hear you are willing to be part of movement to push for change. Good snag on the domain name, too. I've heard the various districts are trying to buy them up to try to stop this unified front. I recently heard from some good friends of mine that someone inquired about starting something in SWCSD. I just didn't connect the dots until reading this post. I'll give you a call soon and introduce myself.

Bruce J wrote:

Bond issues are another animal entirely. I know they are used for borrowing money to build schools, but do we pay that back those loans through property taxes or some other way?

BJ: These things are called bond issues because they authorize the school district to sell bonds to finance major asset purchases - primarily buildings. The transaction is essentially this: As a buyer of these bonds, you give the school district a hunk of cash, and the school district gives you a piece of paper - a bond - that promises that for the next number of years (often 20), they will send you a check every six months for a certain amount of interest, and at then end of those years, they will give you your money back.

The money to make the interest payments every six months comes from the additional property taxes authorized by the bond levy. An additional amount of money is also collected via property taxes to build up a fund (called a 'sinking fund') to redeem the bonds when they mature. In mortgage terms - this is the "interest" and "principle" on the loan.

When the bonds mature (e.g. at 20 years), the need to collect property taxes to pay current interest and build up the sinking fund ends, and so do the associated property taxes. That's when we get to 'burn the mortgage.'

This is a simplified explanation - the real process involved bond underwriters and some intermediate transactions. The school district also has some flexibility as to how the bond retirement is structured. But generally, you can think of a bond levy as a big community mortgage, where the whole community shares in making the payments.

For that reason, bond levies are different than operating levies in another respect: when new homes are built in the district, the burden of repaying the bonds is spread out over more homeowners, and the per-homeowner share of the burden actually goes down.

Likewise, if there is a significant reduction in the property base - e.g. if a manufacturing plant is demolished - the per-homeowner share might go up. The county auditor will collect whatever millage is necessary to make the interest/principle payments on the bond, even if there is only one home left standing.

However, new homes also bring new kids, and if the growth continues, more schools will be needed, and so will more bond levies to fund them.

Hope this helps.

JMC wrote:

<quoted text>
Voting NO hasn't seemed to fix anything in the districts that tried. Find or start a group geared towards fixing the problem and take some action.

I happen to agree that the way to effect change for the school funding system in Ohio is to vote no on levy issues. Not just in Reynoldsburg or Franklin County but all over the state. It is quite apparent the state will not listen to the average voter, houshold etc. When large numbers of school districts and teachers unions start complaining about the inability to continue operating "business as usual", that is when the state will take the issue seriously, that is when we will see school funding reform.

I agree 100% that groups must be created to inform citizens about the excesses and inequities that are norm within the current funding system. The key here will be synchrinization and organization. Although I feel the roots of this movement have indeed been set, the fruits of this movement will take time to bear out.

In the meantime, the best way to voice your displeasure with the current system is to vote no on levy's.

You don't think anything has come from "no vote" so far? Look how hard it has become for districts to pass levy's today and all of the publicity and attention that have been directed to the subject. How big was the "issue" in SWCS? How big is "the issue" in Reynoldsburg? What about Worthington and Westerville.

It is the "no votes" that are demanding change and drawing the spotlight to this issue.

Again, if you want to chage the current system, vote no. It is due to all of the citizens who were brave enough to vote no already that we are on the cusp of change today.

There will be another levy attempt for Reynoldsburg in May of 2010. It is critical this levy be voted down. Why? Because the current teachers contract for Reynoldsburg expires in May, a new contract for Reynoldsburg teachers will be negotiated in June and July for completion before the start of the 2010/2011 school year.

The issue that will have the largest impact on these negotiations? Whether the levy passes or fails.

It will be much easier for the union to demand that raises and benefits continue to skyrocket at current levels if the school board is flush with new money from a passed levy.

A no vote on the May levy will seriously damage the unions negotiating leverage and take them out of the catbird seat.

I firmly believe we are near the end of the current funding system. Whether we are truly at the end now or it is five years away remains to be seen however, the system truly is unsustainable at current levels.

More people are realizing this every day - because people have voted no.

A big problem with trying to use "NO" votes as leverage for change is that union negotiations and levy votes aren't linked very well. It is very often the case that the union negotiations come first, and then the school board comes to the people asking for more money - via a levy - to pay for the additional costs associated with the new union contract.

The consequence of letting things happen in this sequence is that if the levy doesn't pass, the unions contracts remain in force, and faced with the rising costs of the new union contract and no new revenue, the school board has no choice but to lay off the youngest teachers and take services away from the kids.

There have been school board who have negotiated two salary grids into the union contracts - one that has higher increases which would be put into effect if the levy passes, and one with smaller, or no increases if it doesn't.

It's an interesting idea which essentially gives the community direct participation in the negotiation process.

Voting "no" on a levy after the union contracts have been negotiated doesn't send a message to anyone - it just hurts the kids and the most vulnerable teachers (read the article in today's Dispatch about the glut of teachers).

If you want to send a message, start showing up at your school board meetings and tell the members exactly what you think. Or start a community group of like-minded people, like www.EducateHilliard.org or www.EducateWorthington.org

Better yet - run for the school board yourself.

Paul Lambert
Member elect
Hilliard School Board