Erie School District's to close 3 elementary schools as a way to save money
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If we want to compare apples to apples after a student attends Erie schools how much will they make? that would be the comparison to a company, Tax that will not be a easy copy and paste because most of the people that I know that make good money have left Erie. I would disagree that what most executives do to companies is more damaging then what a tenure employee does. Think about all the platinum parachutes Executives have and when they are finished with one company they go to the next. I work with Executives most of them have been with several companies and move on by robbing the companies and employees. Tax look up how many people where robbed out of pensions at Enron.
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apples to apples
.......... One way or another, government employees must be weaned from their exorbitant defined-benefit pension plans. Those plans should be closed completely to new employees and frozen for current employees. Already-vested benefits cannot be touched, but all retirement benefits going forward ought to be accrued within a defined-contribution plan requiring employee contributions. Without depriving employees of any benefits they have earned to date, governments have to be able to amend the terms on which future benefits are earned. Tens of millions of Americans working in the private sector—including many belonging to labor unions—know from first-hand experience that the terms and conditions of future employment can be changed. That is how real life works, and a government job should not confer immunity from real life. |
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I would disagree that what most executives do to companies is more damaging then what a tenure employee does.
.......... Government unions should be illegal. They are a conflict of interest, and they’re probably the closest thing to a legalized mafia we have here in the US. It’s extremely difficult to get rid of a bad government worker; and once they have acquired any kind of seniority (5 years or so), it’s almost impossible. So once they’re on the public payroll, they remain a millstone around the taxpayer’s neck as long as they live. And these ‘freely negotiated contracts’ are often put in place by people who have made inside deals—sort of a ‘you-scratch-my-back-I’ll-scra tch-yours’ arrangement. The suckers paying the tax bill usually have no clue what’s going on. ‘Public servant’? I’ve known a few good ones, but the term is rapidly becoming an oxymoron. A ‘public servant’ worthy of the name is efficient and conscientious about both their job performance and the tax dollars they are spending. The quality of their work speaks for itself. They don’t view their position as a vehicle for oppression or revenge against businesses or other members of the public. Someone like that doesn’t need to hide behind a government union. I think it’s the bad apples (and the mediocre) that benefit the most from the protection of government unions. And that’s what is bankrupting so many city governments. http://online.worldmag.com/2010/12/15/tyranny ... |
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1 If teaching is such a comfortable job, why don’t you do it? 5 years ago, there was a shortage, and I am sure if you want to spend the time you can get your certification and masters, in Math or Science you can easily get a job. You are from California you can get a job as an ESL teacher. If you are so concerned about teachers take a gander at this article and the turn over rate http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/03/... It is not a easy job. |
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Since: Jun 11
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********** Settle down there Ted...and please limit those letter bombs this time around, OK? Why don't you run for public office and see if you can get some of your solutions implemented? I'm sure that you would have a ton of people support you! Please answer these questions... 1. What person in their right mind would take a public school teaching position which would start them off at a whopping $18-$20K? 2. What "perks" do teachers have? 3. No tenure, huh? You are working your present job for the past 20 years and one day your boss tells you that you are fired. You haven't done anything wrong, but he just wants to bring in someone new so that he won't have to pay them as much as he pays you. How would you react to that scenario? Let's see if you can give us three straight answers. |
Answers 1) Any of the teachers that are in the private school because they aren't related to anyone in the district would take the job just for the benefits. 2) Perks; summer off, all weekwnds and holidays off, work day 8am -2:30. 3) No one in the private sector has tenure. |
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2 2. Incorrect:(Summers Off) most teachers work during the summer whether it be private or public I don’t know of any school teachers leaving at 2:30 unless given permission. On top of that most of the work has to be taken home to be graded. In addition to the parent teachers conferences, and other activates that force teachers to stay after class is over. 3. People that have tenure can be fired for incompetence how would that be any different then someone in the private school being fired for incompetence. Should teachers be fired for other reasons other then incompetence and illegal activity? |
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You are incorrect on all 3 points. 1)Teachers in private schools would transfer just for the benefits as I stated. The nepotism was added to explain why they are not in the public schools to begin with.2) Teachers DO indeed get the summer off. What they choose to do with that time is up to them and not part of the job.3) You cannot fire a teacher for incompetence period. With or without tenure. Please list any public school teachers that were dismissed for incompetence and post how many years it took to get them fired. Few teachers are forced to stay later than the students or attend mor than a few mandatory parent teacher conferences as it is NOT in their contract. Either you are an ESD teacher trying to make excuses or you are completely incompetent |
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3 These are just a sample of how we are expected to perceive the reasons why people become teachers. Nothing could be further from the truth. Public school teachers enter and remain in this "profession" simply because they want the schedule,they want the benefits,they want the protection, they want to retire early. All good reasons for sure so let's cut through all the " caring for my students " crap ! Public school teachers are in it first and foremost for themselves and don't let any of them fool you. Talk to them one on one if they trust you well enough and you will get the real story. Why do I pick on the public school teachers and not the rest. Simple, public school teachers through their union membership have been brainwashed into actually believing they are always the smartest ones in whatever room or venue they find themselves in. The problem is that these self grandized masters of knowledge are only on this pseudo pedestal within their own tiny classroom walls full of children. Of course they're the smartest ones in the room given that narrow world in which they fester. Outside of their kiddie kingdom they are often exposed as people ill suited to engage in discussions, debates, and perspectives of the grownup world. They can't expand themselves because they don't engage with others who know more than they do. Unless of course you want to count their half hour lunch room converstaions with like minded sheltered fellow teachers who all remind themselves of their own importance. |
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Since: Jun 11
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1 Yiur reasoning is obtuse at best. That's like saying a person who works at Erie Insurance is dedicated to saving the lives of the people they insure. Do they like their pay? I bet they do. Do they like their hours? I bet they do! I bet they have holidays off and don't work weekends either!!! As for you assumption that teachers can't associate with the "outside" world, you are way off base. Are their some teachers in that position? I'm sure there are, but to make a rash, stereotypical statement like yours is ridiculous! So what you're saying is that a 3rd grade public school teacher is out of touch, but a 3rd grade parochial/private school teacher is in touch, correct? Sorry, but you sound foolish in your rant against public school teachers! Obviously, you have a problem. Did you attend public schools? Did/do your children?(Do you even have children?) |
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Since: Jun 11
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1. Most of the private school teacheres would not be able to handle the ilk in the public schools. Remember that their parochial/private school does not have to accept the riff-raff that the public schools do. They would probably use their insurance benefits on a good psychologist! 2. Listen to this Truth I'm about to type here: Schools are closed for about three months per year!!! Capice? Don't blame school teachers for some antiquated, agrarian habit of closing schools during the summer months! 3. Teachers in PA are fired for a variety of reasons. Check with the PSEA. As for teachers staying longer than students, I know of dozens of high school teachers who don't leave school for at least 45 minutes to an hour after the students have left. Plus, most schools require teachers to offer extra-help at least once a week for at least one-half hour. Do you stay longer than you are required to at your job? If you punch out at 5:00, do you stay around for another 15 minutes? A half hour? An hour? Hmmmmmm..... And I'll say it one more time, if our job is so easy and sooooo lucrative, why don't you get yourself up to Edinboro's Porrecco Center, Gannon University, Mercyhurst University (or the school of your choice) and enroll in some education/general education classes so you too can start on your path to being a millionaire??? |
You haven't refuted anything i stated. You're wrong on the number of teachers that would jump at your job for half pay including your 200 laid off teachers. 2)You admit you get summers off yet you get defensive about it. Why? 3)1/2 hour a week ??? How terrible.. Enjoy your pay freeze and unpaid vacation days that are about to come. |
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Here's the difference..... People who work at Erie Insurance don't make it a point professing that they " are dedicated to saving the lives of the people they insure " while many public school teachers use this mantra quite conveniently and often when having to explain themselves or justify demands for another raise to the tax paying public. Private and parochial teachers are not brainwashed by a union into such a bold and overinflated opinion of themselves. They are much humbler and realistic when it comes to their position in society. That's been my experience knowing members from both sides. |
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Since: Jun 11
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You claim I have refuted nothing, yet you quite selectively choose the points upon which you feel comfortable commenting. 1. If these private/parochial teachers are so willing to jump to a job that would pay $18-$20K,(a 20-something girl down the block from me works as an assistant manager at a fast food place and pulls in 21K + benefits!) why don't they come into the district and substitute? That's the best way to get into the district. 2. I have never mentioned a thing about having the summers off. Either you or someone of your kind belligerently mentioned that teachers have 3 months off. I simply stated that the schools are closed due to some antiquated custom, so how could we work? 3. I never said it was terrible to stay after school for whatever purpose. YOU put the whiny "terrible" spin on that idea, not me. Plus, you didn't/won't answer my question about staying after your quitting time at your job. Again, if it's such an easy, lucrative job, why don't you join in our millionaire club!!! Plus, I don't care about a pay freeze or a few unpaid days. It's not as big of a deal as you'd like to think it is! |
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Since: Jun 11
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So, it's not the pay, benefits, or the weekends/vacations that Erie Insurance employees share with ESD teachers, it's the "mantra" that is either used or not used. That is what separates the two factions, correct? Erie Insurance employees are allowed to enjoy their pay, benefits, and time away from work, but ESD teachers are low-life, union pigs for doing the same thing. Does that about sum up your position?(Please don't throw in the taxpayer BS because I never see anyone on this site whine and moan when their insurance rates go up or if they risk cancellation because of an accident.) Please show me where and when local teachers have used the "mantra" to which you refer. I have never been brainwashed by our union. I think you have created this opposing scenario of knowing both types of teachers just to justify your dislike for public school teachers. If one or more private/parochial teachers landed a hugely lucrative teaching position in the ESD, would they then also be brainwashed into believing they were superior and, in turn, possess overinflated opinions of themselves? Or is that role solely reserved for teachers who started their careers in the ESD? |
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1 Ok Teach let me try to explain this to you in a way that your classroom oriented mind can understand. No one is claiming that people should not enjoy the perks and benefits of their job. I do, we all do. Easy enough for you to understand so far Teach ? No one made the claim or used the words about ESD teachers being low life union pigs but you in your previous post. Interesting though that you said that. Are you believing it yourself ? And yes, the fact that pulic school teachers are paid by all of us through tax dollars does make it my and every tax payer's business concerning what teachers do and say. And of course no one likes it when insurance rates increase or the price of a gallon of gas goes up or the cost of groceries etc. etc. The difference, and I'll try to simplify it for you since you're limited in the adult world as a teacher, is that in these other entities where prices rise people don't employ the tired old tactic that "our main concern is for the welfare of the students". People aren't buying what you're selling anymore yet you hear and read about this over played mantra in situations where teachers are negotiating a new contract, letters to the editor, and whenever the news media interviews or does a story about a school or a teacher. People outside the insulated world of eduacation can see right through the phony act of placing "the children's" interest above the teachers. Still with me on this Teach ? As far as private and parochial teachers moving into a public school setting......yes I have known some teachers who have done so and depending on their age they certainly became a similar animal once the union mentality kicked in. And just what is that union mentality you may wonder ? Maybe you don't notice it because you are so entrenched. It's like minded individuals propping one another up by convincing each other just how smart and important they are. Being cooped up for so many years in a relatively small room full of children will do that to anybody I suppose. It's just that teachers are the only ones that fail to see how stifled they've become by not advancing through the experiences of learning from those who know more than they do. I hope that helps you to understand that there are answers and thoughts out there that don't always come from a textbook or from a bunch of under developed minds occupying a classroom. |
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TheTruth, I am a analyst for a Fortune 500 Company as mentioned before I worked for a charter school as a teacher, what do you do? other then troll the internet. Obviously until the critics actually become a teacher from the outside it is a easy job. As cited from other comments there are many reasons why it is not an easy job and further proof, is the turnaround rate. http://theadvocate.com/home/492228-79/story.h... <-- Tenure teachers fired for incompetence |
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These teachers are already working in the private schools for that wage with limited benefits and would jump at the chance to get benefits that the public schools offer even at the same wage. They don't substitute because the ESD pays a poverty wage to substitutes while paying a kings ransom to it's full time employees. They at least have a guaranteed paycheck at their private schools.As far as staying late at work, in the private sector you stay until the job is done period. Many salaried workers have to stay late and put in extra hours. As far as getting into the ESD, the best way is NEPOTISM and that is a FACT. I have commented on all the areas you feel comfortable commenting on. |
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1 Paul, Who said I wasn't a teacher? I seem to know an awful lot about teaching and the ESD and their crippling policies that favor the teachers. Or maybe I'm not. Why should we believe your analyst is anything more than part time counter help for a fortune 500 company? As aa busy analyst where do you find your time to troll this site? |
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In your Marxist, collectivist rant you try to draw a correllation, an apple-to-apple comparison, between your theft of citizen's money in the form of taxation vs one's personal decision to purchase a consumer product offered by a private company. You just don't get it, do you ? Your salary is not produced. Your salary, perks, and benefits come at the hands of government agents forcing our payment to you in the form of taxes. You don't like to read your "employers" reference to taxes. But you get your high salary, your exceptional perks and benefits such as medical, dental, and eyeglass insurances at the hands of a gun; the gun of government. If one doesn't like Erie Insurance one can buy elsewhere or not buy insurance at all. Try not paying ones property/SCHOOL taxes. If one is fortunate to pay off one's mortgage, one never is free of you and your fellow government goons forcing one to pay and pay and pay. Don't pay one's tribute and the Sheriff will be ordering you to GET OUT of HIS house ! Don't pay one's tribute to the FEDS and a tough guy with a 14 inch barreled shotgun will be shoving it in your face while he and his fellow IRS agents serve you will papers and/or a set of bracelets. You are certainly the enemy of freedom. You believe you and your ilk DESERVE our money. You believe we don't deserve to keep our money. You believe what is the citizen's is yours in mandatory taxation. Its one of the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto. You are the enemy of freedom and liberty. You are a thief....forcing payment and tribute at the barrel of a gun. So while you whine and snivel and challenge others to be .gov teachers; while you thump your chest about how tough you think you have it, the fact of the matter is I and others don't want to be teachers. We just don't want to be FORCED to pay the .gov's teachers living by mandatory confiscation of OUR money ! You asked me several questions earlier. You challenged me to respond to your questions by using name-calling of me and ridicule ala Saul Alinsky via his Rules for Radicals. Well, I've answered your questions numerous times over the course of this thread while you've ignored many of mine, one of which I'll challenge you to answer, AGAIN: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE TAKERS OUTNUMBER THE PROVIDERS ? |
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