Returning creationism to classes is debated

The less educated you are the more likely you can't understand evolution, how carbon dating worked and the more you might want creationism. Texas and the deep south, the places with the highest illiteracy are the main places where this is an issue.

Its an embarrassment to our state that we even are talking about this.

Yeah god created the universe in 7 days and the earth according to the bible study is about 6000 years old- what ignorance!

Since this keeps not being pointed out by any media I thought I'd mention that a scientific theory is a WELL substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world. It's is NOT an opinion or a hunch.

You can't compare creationism or intelligent design to the scientific theory of evolution because there is no genuine scientific evidence to support them. That's not to say that God didn't (or did) have a hand in getting us here from wherever we started, just that without any meaningful evidence you can't include it in SCIENCE class.

That would be like bringing God into history class and saying that he was testing George Washington and the American Troops during their winter at Valley Forge and that once they were proved worthy he helped them go on to win the American Revolution. That may or may not be the case but we don't and we can't know that so all we can do is discuss actual facts.

I'm getting fed-up with random people insisting that we bring in THEIR religion into classrooms. How many of those people like Ms. Lee would want teachers to talk to their kids about ALL the different creationist theories out there? Do they want teachers teaching Islamic theories? Buddhist theories? How about teaching atheist theories? How would they like it if teachers went out of their way to explain why some people DON'T believe in God?

Religion should be left out of the classrooms entirely and you should teach your children about your religion and leave my kids along to learn whatever I choose to teach them about faith/God/religion.

I am not a religious person at all and do not want anyone's religion being force fed to my children, BUT that is not really what is being discussed in Austin. Brandi's leftist agenda is showing here and sh has twisted what is being discussed to fit her perception. What is being debated is whether to continue to require that both the strengths and weaknesses of the Theory of Evolution be taught to students to give them a solid basis for making their own decisions, NOT forcing religion on students. How is it different for scientists/teachers to say that only their view is right than it is for religious folks to say only their view is right? I believe in giving as much information as possible and letting the individual decide.

As I understand it Intelligent Design is not religious in nature, but has been labled as such to make it easier to denounce. But given the holes in evolution and Darwins theories, it seems obvious that there is something else at work here.

Steve -El Paso-Rockport wrote:

The less educated you are the more likely you can't understand evolution, how carbon dating worked and the more you might want creationism. Texas and the deep south, the places with the highest illiteracy are the main places where this is an issue.
Its an embarrassment to our state that we even are talking about this.
Yeah god created the universe in 7 days and the earth according to the bible study is about 6000 years old- what ignorance!

What is an embarrassment is that a tenured professor can playgerize others work and get away with is, but anothered tenured professor gets fired for questioning darwin, is there no critical thinking anymore

Chief22 - Ignorance is not bliss. Introducing other theories - which they are not - is not critical thinking. Not Thinking brought up an excellent point: if Intelligent Design is introduced, then should not all other beliefs also get the same amount of attention? But certainly not in a science class.

Sorry - meant to cite "Not Blind" in the previous post.

chief22 wrote:

<quoted text>
What is an embarrassment is that a tenured professor can playgerize others work and get away with is, but anothered tenured professor gets fired for questioning darwin, is there no critical thinking anymore

Intentional plagiarism can and does get you kicked out of universities, and if you question something as fundamental to science as evolution, clearly you don't belong in college either.

And what does a person who takes their ideas about the origin of the universe straight from the Book of Genesis know about critical thinking?

Steve -El Paso-Rockport wrote:

Yeah god created the universe in 7 days and the earth according to the bible study is about 6000 years old- what ignorance!

How can you condemn a book that you never read? Do you disagree with Einsteins theory of relativity without understanding it as well?

If you had ever bothered to read the Bible you would understand that it states that the earth is at least hundreds of million years old.

The is proven as the Lord speaks of his creating dinosaurs.

The Bible states that there are three ages of the earth.
One has passed, we are in the second (about 12,000 years so far), and the third is yet to come.

You don't have to believe in the Bible, but no intelligent person should comment on something that they know nothing about.

Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>... but no intelligent person should comment on something that they know nothing about.

That's right Sandy - so, perhaps you should take your own advice

Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>How can you condemn a book that you never read? Do you disagree with Einsteins theory of relativity without understanding it as well?
If you had ever bothered to read the Bible you would understand that it states that the earth is at least hundreds of million years old.
The is proven as the Lord speaks of his creating dinosaurs.
The Bible states that there are three ages of the earth.
One has passed, we are in the second (about 12,000 years so far), and the third is yet to come.
You don't have to believe in the Bible, but no intelligent person should comment on something that they know nothing about.

Damn, I need to get some of whatever you are smoking! I've never read anything like that in the Bible... All I ever read was about incest, theft, massacres and genocide, fallen angels, and virgin births, but no "timeline" on the history of the world.

Let Reason Ring wrote:

<quoted text>
Damn, I need to get some of whatever you are smoking! I've never read anything like that in the Bible...

You have just proved my point.
Thank you.

Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>You have just proved my point.
Thank you.

Really? How so? Don't tell me you are one of those who bitter ones who "cling to their guns and religion" when the going gets tough - in this case, questioning your logic.

See how the evolution theary remains a theory only,

http://www.harunyahya.com/

Wake Up El Paso wrote:

I am not a religious person at all and do not want anyone's religion being force fed to my children, BUT that is not really what is being discussed in Austin. Brandi's leftist agenda is showing here and sh has twisted what is being discussed to fit her perception. What is being debated is whether to continue to require that both the strengths and weaknesses of the Theory of Evolution be taught to students to give them a solid basis for making their own decisions, NOT forcing religion on students. How is it different for scientists/teachers to say that only their view is right than it is for religious folks to say only their view is right? I believe in giving as much information as possible and letting the individual decide.

You're clearly not up to speed on what's going on throughout the country. That convenient "strengths and weaknesses" argument is being used over and over to open the door for "other" explanations, one of them being intelligent design. At best the weaknesses in evolution are situations where we have less evidence than we'd like, but where there is still much more evidence in favor of it than there is for any competing "theory"

Scientists don't have all the answers, but until intelligent design/creationists subject their "theories" to the same rigorous scientific study that serious theories get, they're never going to be anything more than cheap attempts to inject religion into the classroom.

chief22 wrote:

As I understand it Intelligent Design is not religious in nature, but has been labled as such to make it easier to denounce. But given the holes in evolution and Darwins theories, it seems obvious that there is something else at work here.

That's incorrect, there have already been legal cases where it was found that the people who started the "intelligent design" movement effectively took what they'd written for creationism and just changed the names (sometimes even leaving evidence of that in the original word processor files) and similarly creationism has already been found to be an attempt to get around the separation of church and state in order to teach religion in classrooms.

What holes are you referring to in evolution or Darwin's theories? Last time I read up on them the "holes" pointed to by ID/creationists were at best misinformation and misinterpretations of the work that real scientists have done. It's so bad that in multiple instances the same scientists they quote have gone on the record to flat out deny the ID interpretations and explain how they're misunderstanding their work.

So what happened to a 'well rounded education'? Excuse me, but I thought the meaning of a well rounded education meant an education in everything! Let the kids make up their minds for themselves! Just like animals in their early years they learn by trial and error. You can't keep God from anyone. He's eternal! Know what that means? He can do anything He wants, whenever He wants and how He wants. Why make up excuses for deliberately going against His will and disguise your anti religion with confusing reasons for not allowing 'creationism'. Blah, blah!

Let Reason Ring wrote:

<quoted text>
Really? How so? Don't tell me you are one of those who bitter ones who "cling to their guns and religion" when the going gets tough - in this case, questioning your logic.

Wow, I joined this discussion to politely state my point on the matter of people that have never read the Bible but still state that the Bible says things that it does not.
Such as Adam & Eve being the first people that the Lord created,or "what about dinosaurs", ect, and I got jumped on and insulted by people who have clearly never read the Bible. Because if they had, they would not have said such things.

All I was suggesting is that before someone tries to disprove or dispute something, they should first be educated enough on the topic to do so.

I guess there is no room for polite, intelligent discussion on these forums.... only insults.

It's very sad to see how people act so differently in an anonymous environment rather than how they would if speaking face to face with someone .

Akhter wrote:

See how the evolution theary remains a theory only,
http://www.harunyahya.com/

... and for anyone who'd like to know why actual scientists call it a theory (in science being a theory does not mean that it is "just" a theory)

http://www.aaas.org/news/press_room/evolution...

Secret wrote:

So what happened to a 'well rounded education'? Excuse me, but I thought the meaning of a well rounded education meant an education in everything! Let the kids make up their minds for themselves! Just like animals in their early years they learn by trial and error. You can't keep God from anyone. He's eternal! Know what that means? He can do anything He wants, whenever He wants and how He wants. Why make up excuses for deliberately going against His will and disguise your anti religion with confusing reasons for not allowing 'creationism'. Blah, blah!

So you'd be ok with having your kids taught about Islam? Atheism? Wicca? According to what you said they should learn by trial and error so do you really want to send your kids to a school where they'll be taught _everything_? I seriously doubt you'd be happy if your kid came home telling you how he'd found Allah and how he thought you were wrong about your spiritual belief.

Why don't we just leave God out of the schools and let parents teach their children whatever they think is best in that area?