You're an old time Riverdale/Dolton resident if you remember.....

I was first hired at the Casual Shop in the Almar Plaza in Dolton, IL in the summer of 1968. The Frisch Family was so good to me over the many years I worked there!!! I would work after school at T'Ridge (we were on triple shifts back then, so I was out of school at 2pm). I worked there all through high school and every summer and Thanksgiving and Christmas while I was going through college. I started at less than $1 an hour and over the years got up to $2.50. Those were the days, huh?

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Dolton Resident wrote:

<quoted text> First I would like to sya to you with your sneaky racist comments. I bought in Dolton in 1992 and my hubsands uncle and family bought back in the early 80's. when we moved to Dolton we never realized it would be a place like this. Just because {Black} ppl. moved in. It didn't make it not a nice play to live. Just like every other town , city different states there are major problems. so to make your little racist comment....all I have to say .If you all didn't move out ...you figure the rest!

When you speak of the candy store on Lincoln Ave near the elmementary school is that the correct name of the ower of the candy store or someone that only worked there. My dad had the shoe store up the street from there.

I too was a resident of Dolton, very fond memories, my dad owned the Dolton Shoe Clinic for 40 years. Remember Dr. Weiner the family doctor on Lincoln Ave even made home visits. How about the Dog & Suds, Panazzo Barber Shop and the wishing well, those 4th of July fireworks were the best by far along with the long parades.

Marcheline and the Bertrands lived at 13840 Wabash--its a newer home for that block, so may not be the original. I grew up with "Marcia" and lived nearby and was the same age. Her mother was a Gowens. They operated the Parkview Bowling alley and Palasades in Roseland.

Jon Voight and Marcheline did return to Riverdale for a funeral at St. Marys and donated the cross that is above the altar--1970's or so.

If the Bertrands lived in the brownstone, 3-story on the northeast corner of 138th and State, that was also the home of Betty Robinson around 1927--first American woman to win an Olympic Gold medal in track.

I'm on the Riverdale historical society (now defunct)and am a history buff of the area--not sure if these links will show, but I have a photoalbum and old home movies of the area:

http://www.youtube.com/tthscarl

http://community.webshots.com/user/carl3615

Joe falco wrote:

Does anyone remember the old house on the corner of 133rd and Indiana! North of Te Little Calumet, just over the bridge? It was an old pioneer house. The last record I found it belonged to Joe Panozzo. Itstood until about 1962. Was it torn down? Moved?
anyone remember anything?

Joe, that home was originally an inn/tavern, built around 1852--called the Pioneer House and Halfway House. I have pictures of it from the 1800's, though not posted (yet). I did a lot of work for the Riverdale library on pictures, and many are posted on their library site here--it may be in this mix, but it's not indexed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/riverdalelibrary...

The house burned down years ago, as I was told.

Donna wrote:

Does anyone remember the name of the Chinese Restaurant that was located near Jewel and Dorbern's Bakery back in the early 60's. It was not the Lung Wah's or whatever it was later.

Donna, that was the "Old China Chop Suey" restaurant/take out in the 1960's.

Carl

JustDucky wrote:

<quoted text>
Yep, it was Sidney something. He got married, and poof! he was gone. I remember hopping trains back their. How we managed to lice for that, don't know. We were a darng breed back then. Not only that, but hanging out underneath the overass.

Joe, I found pictures of the "Girard House" which was located near where you say in my collection. Check them out and--if the same place--let me know the exact location as you remember. Most say it was "around" 135th and Indiana and on the west side, but nothing is documented and is a guess. When it was built in 1841, house numbers didn't exist!

It's in my album here:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22031389...

Also someone asked about the drive-in restaurant on 138th and Halsted in the 1950's-60's. That was Lou-Arts--named after it's two owners. Around 1961 Art had another drive in on the NW corner of 144th and Indiana, called "Art's." It was previously the B&K rootbeer stand.

tthsCarl wrote:

<quoted text>
Joe, that home was originally an inn/tavern, built around 1852--called the Pioneer House and Halfway House. I have pictures of it from the 1800's, though not posted (yet). I did a lot of work for the Riverdale library on pictures, and many are posted on their library site here--it may be in this mix, but it's not indexed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/riverdalelibrary...
The house burned down years ago, as I was told.

Carl, thanks for sharing your photos and knowledge about Dolton and Riverdale, I've looked at your websites many times!(Witches Woods, 144th St., etc.) Do you know anything about a CCC Camp that might have been at Kickapoo Woods (just northwest of 144th Street & Halsted)? I saw what appears to have been an a "campsite" on the historic aerials website (1939). I may have found some info about that on a Conservation Corp. website, but it was referred to as "Harvey." As a kid, I remember seeing some old foundations back in the western part of the woods around there too. Thanks again Carl!

Dusty:

Well those pictures come from many people

I just know the CCC workers built many of the forest preserves--perhaps Kickapoo was one? Let me see if I can find the CCC camp in the 1940 Census that just came out last week--I know the CCC camps were suppossed to be registered, and their inhabitants. Presently, there's no way to search that census by name, just by the district. Not sure if they would give an exact location, but it would be within a few blocks. I'll give it a gander over the next few.

These camps may have moved around over the decade, too. You figure they had to be in the forest preserve areas, though.

http://www.stevemorse.org/census/unified.html

Above is the best place to start if searching the new 1940 census--it will help get you to the neck of the woods, anyways. The census bureau server is busy sometimes, so may be slow.

Carl, thanks so much for staying on this from a request months ago! I have a lot of info I can send you about the Oosterhaut Tavern, built possibly as early as 1839, by George Dolton, who hired Levi Oosterhaut who was managing the Sauganash Hotel in "downtown" Chicago. I have aerials that show the house was there until about 1962. I never could find out what happened to it. Sad to hear it burned. At one point I heard that it had been moved, but now I believe that was early on and from one of the property farther north to the empty lot on the NW corner of 134th & Indiana, across from the boat storage/marina on the Little Calumet. I have a 1941 aerial of ACME Steel that clearly shows it standing there. I have seen the first two shots, but not the third shot you have posted. Its really great to see. Its sad that these historic houses, like the Walker Tavern farther north in Roseland were neglected, torn down or demolished. I believe if they would have been downtown or on the north side they would have been preserved with a bronze marker out front. Oh well.What a rich historical area: Riverdale and Roseland, and the area around the Girard House known as Bowen's Woods or Wildwood. Carl, do you have a photo of the old train station around 127th (Illinois Central) or farther north at Colonel Bowen's home?
Thanks again!

tthsCarl wrote:

<quoted text>
Joe, I found pictures of the "Girard House" which was located near where you say in my collection. Check them out and--if the same place--let me know the exact location as you remember. Most say it was "around" 135th and Indiana and on the west side, but nothing is documented and is a guess. When it was built in 1841, house numbers didn't exist!
It's in my album here:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22031389...
Also someone asked about the drive-in restaurant on 138th and Halsted in the 1950's-60's. That was Lou-Arts--named after it's two owners. Around 1961 Art had another drive in on the NW corner of 144th and Indiana, called "Art's." It was previously the B&K rootbeer stand.

Yes, I'd really like to hear more about the "Girard House." I can be reached at riverdaleman AT yahoo DOT com

There's a listing in the 1904 Village Director of a saloon, owned by Mrs. Charles Fleishhauer, at 13358 Indiana.
IF the street numbers were the same as today (some aren't), that would put it on the west side of the street.
Have to wonder if it was the same building. But more than one saloon was in that area then.

I'll ask at the Dolton-Riverdale Oldtimers meeting--some may remember. They meet every first Tuesday of the month at 9AM at the Village Cafe on 142nd and Indiana--anyone is welcome and it's casual. It's amazing who's shown up there over time--Thomsens, Kochs, and on and on.

I was a member of the Riverdale Historical Society, which is now sadly gone. Our 90+ year-old honcho, Mary Thillman, passed last year and the great collection they had has been dispersed. I managed to obtain a number of the phone books from about 1904 to 1990--so I can do lookups for anyone who needs in Riverdale-Dolton and area.

I also have a newer history of Riverdale. It's a collection of letters that hop-and-scotch around called: "History of Riverdale Community, Chicago, 1830-1929. The letters are gleaned from other books, and it was done by Betty Jay.

About 10 years ago we were going to put bronze plaques on landmarks in Riverdale. I did some of the work for that, but funding ran out. The historical society was super active in the 1980's--I came in on the tail end.

One of our "finds" as kids was around 143rd and the Little Cal/Kickapoo Woods. On the riverbank, amidst the trees, was a foundation for a very small house and another smaller building. One of the Kellihers, who still live in Riverdale and really love the history, felt it may have been the home of one of the original few settlers. The other building may have been a water mill of some sort. Of course Kickapoo was created as a preserve, orginally there were next to no trees there or in the village--all prairie.

Hi Carl, I will prepare some notes for you, but it has a long, incredible history. Last owner I found was a Joseph Panozzo in 1940. I would love to see the third photo from the 1900's better. That guy looks like he could be a Fleischhauer. No way to enlarge on that other website. I will send a couple of photos I found in the State Archives. Its the same house, for sure. You can see, in some aerials from the 50's, the original homestead site, orchard, wheat fields and two-tracks of ruts. The building was moved from a 100 yards or so north to the corner when the area was platted, I think. I would love to do an archeological dig on the lot. One bit of info, shared by Paul Petraitus, a Roseland historian, is that Louis Sullivan spent his formative years in the woods nearby (maybe what eventually became Rippie's?) at a place called the Lotus Club. In a sketch book I have not seen, is a portrait of Mrs. Girard by the famous architect. Nice to know a revolutionary architect, who incorporated leaves and vines and organics into his designs was influenced by the wild woods around the Little Calumet.

tthsCarl wrote:

Yes, I'd really like to hear more about the "Girard House." I can be reached at riverdaleman AT yahoo DOT com
There's a listing in the 1904 Village Director of a saloon, owned by Mrs. Charles Fleishhauer, at 13358 Indiana.
IF the street numbers were the same as today (some aren't), that would put it on the west side of the street.
Have to wonder if it was the same building. But more than one saloon was in that area then.
I'll ask at the Dolton-Riverdale Oldtimers meeting--some may remember. They meet every first Tuesday of the month at 9AM at the Village Cafe on 142nd and Indiana--anyone is welcome and it's casual. It's amazing who's shown up there over time--Thomsens, Kochs, and on and on.
I was a member of the Riverdale Historical Society, which is now sadly gone. Our 90+ year-old honcho, Mary Thillman, passed last year and the great collection they had has been dispersed. I managed to obtain a number of the phone books from about 1904 to 1990--so I can do lookups for anyone who needs in Riverdale-Dolton and area.
I also have a newer history of Riverdale. It's a collection of letters that hop-and-scotch around called: "History of Riverdale Community, Chicago, 1830-1929. The letters are gleaned from other books, and it was done by Betty Jay.
About 10 years ago we were going to put bronze plaques on landmarks in Riverdale. I did some of the work for that, but funding ran out. The historical society was super active in the 1980's--I came in on the tail end.
One of our "finds" as kids was around 143rd and the Little Cal/Kickapoo Woods. On the riverbank, amidst the trees, was a foundation for a very small house and another smaller building. One of the Kellihers, who still live in Riverdale and really love the history, felt it may have been the home of one of the original few settlers. The other building may have been a water mill of some sort. Of course Kickapoo was created as a preserve, orginally there were next to no trees there or in the village--all prairie.

Joe Falco wrote:

Hi Carl, I will prepare some notes for you, but it has a long, incredible history. Last owner I found was a Joseph Panozzo in 1940. I would love to see the third photo from the 1900's better. That guy looks like he could be a Fleischhauer. No way to enlarge on that other website. I will send a couple of photos I found in the State Archives. Its the same house, for sure. You can see, in some aerials from the 50's, the original homestead site, orchard, wheat fields and two-tracks of ruts. The building was moved from a 100 yards or so north to the corner when the area was platted, I think. I would love to do an archeological dig on the lot. One bit of info, shared by Paul Petraitus, a Roseland historian, is that Louis Sullivan spent his formative years in the woods nearby (maybe what eventually became Rippie's?) at a place called the Lotus Club. In a sketch book I have not seen, is a portrait of Mrs. Girard by the famous architect. Nice to know a revolutionary architect, who incorporated leaves and vines and organics into his designs was influenced by the wild woods around the Little Calumet.
<quoted text>

Joe
I'll be glad to send you the pics of the house via email in larger format. If you email me, I can set you up as a "friend" on webshots and then you can sign in and see the pics larger.
I've met and discussed a few issues with Paul Petraitus--mostly about an underground railway home of the Ton family in that same area around the Girard House.
Panazzos were all over Riverdale and Roseland, so pinning that one down would be difficult. Joseph Panozzo is not in phone books for Riverdale around 1940, but may have not lived there, was on a party line, etc.
Interesting about Louis Sullivan--I learn something new every day!

Dusty wrote:

<quoted text>Carl, thanks for sharing your photos and knowledge about Dolton and Riverdale, I've looked at your websites many times!(Witches Woods, 144th St., etc.) Do you know anything about a CCC Camp that might have been at Kickapoo Woods (just northwest of 144th Street & Halsted)? I saw what appears to have been an a "campsite" on the historic aerials website (1939). I may have found some info about that on a Conservation Corp. website, but it was referred to as "Harvey." As a kid, I remember seeing some old foundations back in the western part of the woods around there too. Thanks again Carl!

Joe:

Re that CCC camp, the main camp was in Thornton in Sweet Woods. It later became a German POW camp in WWII, then a Boy and Girl Scout camp up until about the 1970's, when the quonset huts there were taken down.(One was moved to the Izaak Walton League in Homewood, IL).

The 1940 Census, unfortunately, lists the camp as having "no population." Now that makes me wonder if the camp might have moved to Kickapoo for some time. One website does list the camp as being in Thornton, but the nearest post office being in Harvey "1 mile south" of the camp. The Kickapoo area would be about a mile north of the post office--so that fits. I'll ask some old timers.

tthsCarl wrote:

<quoted text>
Joe
I'll be glad to send you the pics of the house via email in larger format. If you email me, I can set you up as a "friend" on webshots and then you can sign in and see the pics larger.
I've met and discussed a few issues with Paul Petraitus--mostly about an underground railway home of the Ton family in that same area around the Girard House.
Panazzos were all over Riverdale and Roseland, so pinning that one down would be difficult. Joseph Panozzo is not in phone books for Riverdale around 1940, but may have not lived there, was on a party line, etc.
Interesting about Louis Sullivan--I learn something new every day!

thx Carl, its JOEFALCO@gmail.com

tthsCarl wrote:

<quoted text>
Joe:
Re that CCC camp, the main camp was in Thornton in Sweet Woods. It later became a German POW camp in WWII, then a Boy and Girl Scout camp up until about the 1970's, when the quonset huts there were taken down.(One was moved to the Izaak Walton League in Homewood, IL).
The 1940 Census, unfortunately, lists the camp as having "no population." Now that makes me wonder if the camp might have moved to Kickapoo for some time. One website does list the camp as being in Thornton, but the nearest post office being in Harvey "1 mile south" of the camp. The Kickapoo area would be about a mile north of the post office--so that fits. I'll ask some old timers.

Sorry about the slow reply Carl. Thanks for looking into the possibility of there being a CCC Campsite at Kickapoo. If you look at the 1939 "Historic Aerial" photo, you'll see a possible campsite located on the northeast section of Kickapoo.
I remember a gravel road that was also located on the north end of the park that ran east and west (like a continuation of 144th St) across Halsted St.(It was blocked off years ago. Looking at the 1939 aerial view, it looks like it could have been a long driveway that led to some out buildings in the northwest corner of Kickapoo. Maybe there was a farm and house there? I'm also assuming that they could have been building a drainage ditch to alleviate or reduce a swampy area to the north.
I think we also came across that (settlement) spot near 143rd and the Calumet River a couple years ago. We couldn't find a small foundation but did find what may have been an old cellar hole with a bunch of bricks in it. I remember seeing an old foundation somewhere back there in the mid 80's while riding a bike on the trail back there. Could not find it in more recent times.

I lived in dolton from 1958 when I was Born till 1978

remember all live 14741 ellis

tthsCarl wrote:

<quoted text>
Joe:
Re that CCC camp, the main camp was in Thornton in Sweet Woods. It later became a German POW camp in WWII, then a Boy and Girl Scout camp up until about the 1970's, when the quonset huts there were taken down.(One was moved to the Izaak Walton League in Homewood, IL).
The 1940 Census, unfortunately, lists the camp as having "no population." Now that makes me wonder if the camp might have moved to Kickapoo for some time. One website does list the camp as being in Thornton, but the nearest post office being in Harvey "1 mile south" of the camp. The Kickapoo area would be about a mile north of the post office--so that fits. I'll ask some old timers.

Carl, I just took a look at Kickapoo again on the Historic Aerials Website. It looks like there might have been out buildings all along the northern fringes of Kickapoo Woods in the past. It really got "wooded" over the years too. It would be safe to assume that was farmland before it was turned into a forest preserve. Before the Dolton-Riverdale area was developed, the first roads would have followed along rivers and old Indian trails. I can't help but think that there would be some Indian artifacts in Kickapoo, but never heard of anyone coming up with any there.