Insanity

Imagine that I tell you the following story:

-I was in my room one night.
-Suddenly, my room became exceedingly bright.
-Next thing I know there is an angel in my room.
-He tells me an amazing story.
-He says that there is a set of ancient golden plates buried in the side of a hill in New York.
-On them are the books of a lost race of Jewish people who inhabited North America.
-These plates bear inscriptions in the foreign language of these people.
-Eventually the angel leads me to the plates and lets me take them home.
-Even though the plates are in a foreign language, the angel helps me to decipher and translate them.
-Then the plates are taken up into heaven, never to be seen again.
-I have the book that I translated from the plates. It tells of amazing things -- an entire civilization of Jewish people living here in the United States 2,000 years ago.
And the resurrected Jesus came and visited these people!
-I also showed the golden plates to a number of real people who are my eye witnesses, and I have their signed attestations that they did, in fact, see and touch the plates before the plates were taken up into heaven.

Now, what would you say to me about this story? Even though I do have a book, in English, that tells the story of this lost Jewish civilization, and even though I do have the signed attestations, what do you think? This story sounds nutty, doesn't it?
You would ask some obvious questions. For example, at the very simplest level, you might ask, "Where are the ruins and artifacts from this Jewish civilization in America?" The book transcribed from the plates talks about millions of Jewish people doing all kinds of things in America. They have horses and oxen and chariots and armor and large cities. What happened to all of this? I answer simply: it is all out there, but we have not found it yet. "Not one city? Not one chariot wheel? Not one helmet?" you ask. No, we haven't found a single bit of evidence, but it is out there somewhere. You ask me dozens of questions like this, and I have answers for them all.

Most people would assume that I am delusional if I told them this story. They would assume that there were no plates and no angel, and that I had written the book myself. Most people would ignore the attestations -- having people attest to it means nothing, really. I could have paid the attesters off, or I could have fabricated them. Most people would reject my story without question.

What's interesting is that there are millions of people who actually do believe this story of the angel and the plates and the book and the Jewish people living in North America 2,000 years ago. Those millions of people are members of the Mormon Church, headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah. The person who told this incredible story was a man named Joseph Smith, and he lived in the United States in the early 1800s. He told his story, and recorded what he "translated from the plates", in the Book of Mormon.

If you meet a Mormon and ask them about this story, they can spend hours talking to you about it. They can answer every question you have. Yet the 5.99 billion of us who are not Mormons can see with total clarity that the Mormons are delusional. It is as simple as that. You and I both know with 100% certainty that the Mormon story is no different from the story of Santa. And we are correct in our assessment. The invalidating evidence is voluminous.

Imagine that I tell you this story:

A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business.
A very bright flash of light appeared.
A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times.
Then the man asked, "What should I read?"
The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging [zygote]. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before."
The man ran home to his wife.
While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel.
At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams.
Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. Sometimes it was in dreams, sometimes during the day as "revelations in his heart," sometimes preceded by a painful ringing in his ears (and then the verses would flow from Gabriel right out of the man), and sometimes Gabriel would appear in the flesh and speak. Scribes wrote down everything the man said.
Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth.
The man proved that he had actually been to Jerusalem on the winged horse by accurately answering questions about buildings and landmarks there.
The man continued receiving the revelations from Gabriel for 23 years, and then they stopped. All of the revelations were recorded by the scribes in a book which we still have today.
[Source: "Understanding Islam" by Yahiya Emerick, Alpha press, 2002]
What do you make of this story? If you have never heard the story before, you may find it to be nonsensical in the same way that you feel about the stories of the golden plates and Santa. You would especially feel that way once you read the book that was supposedly transcribed from Gabriel, because much of it is opaque. The dreams, the horse, the angel, the ascension, and the appearances of the angel in the flesh -- you would dismiss them all because it is all imaginary.
But you need to be careful. This story is the foundation of the Muslim religion, practiced by more than a billion people around the world. The man is named Mohammed, and the book is the Koran (also spelled Qur'an or Qur'aan). This is the sacred story of the Koran's creation and the revelation of Allah to mankind.

Despite the fact that a billion Muslims profess some level of belief in this story, people outside the Muslim faith consider the story to be imaginary. No one believes this story because this story is a fairy tale. They consider the Koran to be a book written by a man and nothing more. A winged horse that flew to heaven? That is imaginary -- as imaginary as flying reindeer.

If you are a Christian, please take a moment right now to look back at the Mormon and Muslim stories. Why is it so easy for you to look at these stories and see that they are imaginary fairy tales? How do you know, with complete certainty, that Mormons and Muslims are delusional? You know these things for the same reason you know that Santa is imaginary. There is no evidence for any of it. The stories involve magical things like angels and winged horses, hallucinations, dreams. Horses cannot fly -- we all know that. And even if they could, where would the horse fly to? The vacuum of space? Or is the horse somehow "dematerialized" and then "rematerialized" in heaven? If so, those processes are made up too. Every bit of it is imaginary. We all know that.

An unbiased observer can see how imaginary these three stories are. In addition, Muslims can see that Mormons are delusional, Mormons can see that Muslims are delusional, and Christians can see that both Mormons and Muslims are delusional.

Now let me tell you one final story:

God inseminated a virgin named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world.
Mary and her fiancé, Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to the Son of God.
God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby.
In a dream God told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then God stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel in an attempt to kill Jesus.
As a man, God's son claimed that he was God incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said.
This man performed many miracles. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God.
But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion.
His body was placed in a tomb.
But three days later, the tomb was empty.
And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places.
Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the father almighty, never to be seen again.
Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc.
This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die.
The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story.
This, of course, is the story of Jesus. Do you believe this story? If you are a Christian, you probably do. I could ask you questions for hours and you will have answers for every one of them, in just the same way that I had answers for all of the Santa questions that my friend asked me in Example 1. You cannot understand how anyone could question any of it, because it is so obvious to you.
Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, the Christian story is completely imaginary.

TheGreatRevealer wrote:

Imagine that I tell you the following story:
-I was in my room one night.
-Suddenly, my room became exceedingly bright.
-Next thing I know there is an angel in my room.
-He tells me an amazing story.
-He says that there is a set of ancient golden plates buried in the side of a hill in New York.
-On them are the books of a lost race of Jewish people who inhabited North America.
-These plates bear inscriptions in the foreign language of these people.
-Eventually the angel leads me to the plates and lets me take them home.
-Even though the plates are in a foreign language, the angel helps me to decipher and translate them.
-Then the plates are taken up into heaven, never to be seen again.
-I have the book that I translated from the plates. It tells of amazing things -- an entire civilization of Jewish people living here in the United States 2,000 years ago.
And the resurrected Jesus came and visited these people!
-I also showed the golden plates to a number of real people who are my eye witnesses, and I have their signed attestations that they did, in fact, see and touch the plates before the plates were taken up into heaven.
Now, what would you say to me about this story? Even though I do have a book, in English, that tells the story of this lost Jewish civilization, and even though I do have the signed attestations, what do you think? This story sounds nutty, doesn't it?
You would ask some obvious questions. For example, at the very simplest level, you might ask, "Where are the ruins and artifacts from this Jewish civilization in America?" The book transcribed from the plates talks about millions of Jewish people doing all kinds of things in America. They have horses and oxen and chariots and armor and large cities. What happened to all of this? I answer simply: it is all out there, but we have not found it yet. "Not one city? Not one chariot wheel? Not one helmet?" you ask. No, we haven't found a single bit of evidence, but it is out there somewhere. You ask me dozens of questions like this, and I have answers for them all.
Most people would assume that I am delusional if I told them this story. They would assume that there were no plates and no angel, and that I had written the book myself. Most people would ignore the attestations -- having people attest to it means nothing, really. I could have paid the attesters off, or I could have fabricated them. Most people would reject my story without question.
What's interesting is that there are millions of people who actually do believe this story of the angel and the plates and the book and the Jewish people living in North America 2,000 years ago. Those millions of people are members of the Mormon Church, headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah. The person who told this incredible story was a man named Joseph Smith, and he lived in the United States in the early 1800s. He told his story, and recorded what he "translated from the plates", in the Book of Mormon.
If you meet a Mormon and ask them about this story, they can spend hours talking to you about it. They can answer every question you have. Yet the 5.99 billion of us who are not Mormons can see with total clarity that the Mormons are delusional. It is as simple as that. You and I both know with 100% certainty that the Mormon story is no different from the story of Santa. And we are correct in our assessment. The invalidating evidence is voluminous.

Ahhh, you named an entire thread after your "condition". Sweet. Get help you idiot. hahahahaha

TheGreatRevealer wrote:

Imagine that I tell you this story:
A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business.
A very bright flash of light appeared.
A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times.
Then the man asked, "What should I read?"
The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging [zygote]. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before."
The man ran home to his wife.
While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel.
At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams.
Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. Sometimes it was in dreams, sometimes during the day as "revelations in his heart," sometimes preceded by a painful ringing in his ears (and then the verses would flow from Gabriel right out of the man), and sometimes Gabriel would appear in the flesh and speak. Scribes wrote down everything the man said.
Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth.
The man proved that he had actually been to Jerusalem on the winged horse by accurately answering questions about buildings and landmarks there.
The man continued receiving the revelations from Gabriel for 23 years, and then they stopped. All of the revelations were recorded by the scribes in a book which we still have today.
[Source: "Understanding Islam" by Yahiya Emerick, Alpha press, 2002]
What do you make of this story? If you have never heard the story before, you may find it to be nonsensical in the same way that you feel about the stories of the golden plates and Santa. You would especially feel that way once you read the book that was supposedly transcribed from Gabriel, because much of it is opaque. The dreams, the horse, the angel, the ascension, and the appearances of the angel in the flesh -- you would dismiss them all because it is all imaginary.
But you need to be careful. This story is the foundation of the Muslim religion, practiced by more than a billion people around the world. The man is named Mohammed, and the book is the Koran (also spelled Qur'an or Qur'aan). This is the sacred story of the Koran's creation and the revelation of Allah to mankind.

hahahaha Nobody reads your insane dribble except your daisy chain groupies. hahahaha

Imagine this was a local message board and we could all go to church if we wanted to hear that.

Or stay out of it if we don't.

Kari wrote:

Imagine this was a local message board and we could all go to church if we wanted to hear that.

Who are you talking to?

And this is a local message board where anyone can post what they want to post (as long as it is not libel or slanderous).

Please explain.

It would be nice if the Douglasville forum was a place where people discussed local stuff... and it seems that doesn't happen much. There are tons of other places to argue religion and it's all over this message board. Just don't understand. Personally, I'm not a believer. I'm definitely not jumping on you for your views. Just wish I could come here and read local stuff. Just local stuff. x:o/ But that's just my opinion.... carry on then.

TheGreatRevealer wrote:

<quoted text>
Who are you talking to?
And this is a local message board where anyone can post what they want to post (as long as it is not libel or slanderous).
Please explain.

not saying it's real, but you and the other "great" sure do spend an aweful-lot lot of time and research in a subject you obviously don't believe in. Think of all the time you could have spent in the garden or taking a walk with your kids in nature or fishing. HUGE waste of YOUR time and energy. Sad. But boy you sure showed 'them' how smart you are.

Religious issues are local as well as global. There is a lot of brainwashing and manipulation happening that is holding us back as a species. So, I fight from the local level and anyone that is interested can read up further on their own and decide whether or not this fight is for them.

Like I've said a hundred times. I don't read the posts that don't interest me. I don't click on them, I just browse over them. I expect that those who choose do not agree with my views will do the same.

I kinda expected that response.... but getting a believer to stop believing is gonna work out about as well as getting a non believer to believe. Let's you and I go knock on random doors and let people know how ridiculous it is to believe in such obvious nonsense. That's not really fair... cause I get pissed off when folks do that to me. People are too scared to think for themselves. How about organizing a group for local atheists? That'd be relevant to religion and the area. We don't just have to be people on a message board... if it really bothers you, do more?

Kari

Local and religion from a mystical perspective.

Brandy HART and Harry SPARKS= investigation into transportation

Kari wrote:

I kinda expected that response.... but getting a believer to stop believing is gonna work out about as well as getting a non believer to believe. Let's you and I go knock on random doors and let people know how ridiculous it is to believe in such obvious nonsense. That's not really fair... cause I get pissed off when folks do that to me. People are too scared to think for themselves. How about organizing a group for local atheists? That'd be relevant to religion and the area. We don't just have to be people on a message board... if it really bothers you, do more?

I like your style!

I'd volunteer my time!

TheGreatRevealer wrote:

Religious issues are local as well as global. There is a lot of brainwashing and manipulation happening that is holding us back as a species. So, I fight from the local level and anyone that is interested can read up further on their own and decide whether or not this fight is for them.
Like I've said a hundred times. I don't read the posts that don't interest me. I don't click on them, I just browse over them. I expect that those who choose do not agree with my views will do the same.

The village idiot keeps raving on. hahahahaha

Kari wrote:

I kinda expected that response.... but getting a believer to stop believing is gonna work out about as well as getting a non believer to believe. Let's you and I go knock on random doors and let people know how ridiculous it is to believe in such obvious nonsense. That's not really fair... cause I get pissed off when folks do that to me. People are too scared to think for themselves. How about organizing a group for local atheists? That'd be relevant to religion and the area. We don't just have to be people on a message board... if it really bothers you, do more?

hahahaha Another village idiot. Welcome to Deceiver's daisy chain. Open just a little wide. hahaha He's gonna love you. You agree with him. hahahaha

TheGreatRevealer wrote:

<quoted text>
I like your style!

hahaha A new bag to hum. You idiots do love your chain. hahaha

Kari wrote:

I'd volunteer my time!

Good. He's waiting for you. Rave on with the village idiot. You are the only dumbazz who reads his barf. hahahaha Bend over and smile. He already loves you. hahaha