Fall Freeze Takes Toll on Western Kansas Soybeans

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

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Never mind tofu. When I was a growing boy, I ate soybean meal that was for livestock feed. Not bad. Ranks right up there with cotton seed cake. Soybeans are a great crop. They do not take enormous amounts of nitrogen because they are a legume and have nitrogen fixing bacteria on their root nodules if they are inoculated with the bacteria spores.

Good for the earth, good for the body. There are good soy protein meat substitutes out there. Soysage and stuff. Thrown in a little Worcestershire and soy sauce and you hardly know the difference.

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

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Never mind tofu. When I was a growing boy, I ate soybean meal that was for livestock feed. Not bad. Ranks right up there with cotton seed cake. Soybeans are a great crop. They do not take enormous amounts of nitrogen because they are a legume and have nitrogen fixing bacteria on their root nodules if they are inoculated with the bacteria spores.

You probably ate the old toasted meal that was 41% protein. This new acid process 44%-47% meal is kind of nasty. We sold the 41% at the Co-op to the dairy farmers because it increased butterfat in the milk to get them a premium. I'm not sure you can still buy it anymore. There was only 1 place left at that time who toasted the meal.

earlpittsamurican wrote:

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You probably ate the old toasted meal that was 41% protein. This new acid process 44%-47% meal is kind of nasty. We sold the 41% at the Co-op to the dairy farmers because it increased butterfat in the milk to get them a premium. I'm not sure you can still buy it anymore. There was only 1 place left at that time who toasted the meal.

Well, I have not tried it for many years. But you are probably right. We fed it to our dairy cows. In the winter the cows sometimes got impacted... constipated. We fed them black strap molasses but if things got really bad, we "drenched" them with a wine bottle full of several tablespoons of ginger mixed in water. Yu had to be careful when you walked behind them for a day or two....

Marie wrote:

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Good for the earth, good for the body. There are good soy protein meat substitutes out there. Soysage and stuff. Thrown in a little Worcestershire and soy sauce and you hardly know the difference.

I have no problem eating vegetables. Our consumption of meat is pretty low. I feel that cows should be grass fattened and the feed grains used more for our consumption instead of marbling all that fat in the beef. That is the way it used to be done and we know that all that fat is not good for you anyhow. I have noticed in the past few years that chickens are carrying more fat. I tried grilling some a while back and it kept setting the grill on fire from all that fat. Friars are not anything like the ones we used to raise on the farm. It took about four months for them to grow big enough to eat. Now they do it in about six weeks. The taste is different and the texture is wrong. I would just as soon have a bowl of beans and a chunk of cornbread....

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I have not tried it for many years. But you are probably right. We fed it to our dairy cows. In the winter the cows sometimes got impacted... constipated. We fed them black strap molasses but if things got really bad, we "drenched" them with a wine bottle full of several tablespoons of ginger mixed in water. Yu had to be careful when you walked behind them for a day or two....

Wheat bran is what we used as a mild laxative for our cows. But too much in the mix, and look out!!

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

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I have no problem eating vegetables. Our consumption of meat is pretty low. I feel that cows should be grass fattened and the feed grains used more for our consumption instead of marbling all that fat in the beef. That is the way it used to be done and we know that all that fat is not good for you anyhow. I have noticed in the past few years that chickens are carrying more fat. I tried grilling some a while back and it kept setting the grill on fire from all that fat. Friars are not anything like the ones we used to raise on the farm. It took about four months for them to grow big enough to eat. Now they do it in about six weeks. The taste is different and the texture is wrong. I would just as soon have a bowl of beans and a chunk of cornbread....

The birds used for fryers now are a Cornish cross that will actually grow faster than his legs will keep with. High protein, high fat feeds will put one of those up to 5 pounds before you know it. But I still prefer a leghorn for a fryer. They are naturally a little leaner and still grow fairly fast. I didn't know what it was like to eat a marbled steak until I went to college. A grass fat Holstein steer was just a little tough, but with the right spices and a good pounding with a meat tenderizer, it was pretty good. But to grass fatten all our livestock, that would mean making major changes in what was raised and the varieties of grains. There's little in grain sorghum that humans can eat, it's too bitter. There isn't enough of the right soil in this part of the world to grow rice. Corn has been bred for livestock consumption and would need to have varieties changed for optimum human food. Soybeans already have a huge portion of the production that goes to human consumption. Americans are quite used to that marbled beef and changing to grass fat steers would send Americans to pork and chicken in hordes, essentially breaking the cattleman who spends a very large amount of money in the surrounding towns and cities. Nope, we're too far from the old days to ever be able to go back without dire consequences. If you want grass fat beef, there are a lot of organic producers itching to take your money.

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I have not tried it for many years. But you are probably right. We fed it to our dairy cows. In the winter the cows sometimes got impacted... constipated. We fed them black strap molasses but if things got really bad, we "drenched" them with a wine bottle full of several tablespoons of ginger mixed in water. Yu had to be careful when you walked behind them for a day or two....

You mean ginger like the spice? Powdered or the root? I didn't realize it had that effect. i'll have to keep that in mind.

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

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I have no problem eating vegetables. Our consumption of meat is pretty low. I feel that cows should be grass fattened and the feed grains used more for our consumption instead of marbling all that fat in the beef. That is the way it used to be done and we know that all that fat is not good for you anyhow. I have noticed in the past few years that chickens are carrying more fat. I tried grilling some a while back and it kept setting the grill on fire from all that fat. Friars are not anything like the ones we used to raise on the farm. It took about four months for them to grow big enough to eat. Now they do it in about six weeks. The taste is different and the texture is wrong. I would just as soon have a bowl of beans and a chunk of cornbread....

Beans and cornbread makes a whole protein. My mom was raised on 'em. There is a great bread I love, I call it Bible bread because they found the mixture of grains in the Bible. You can find it at health food stores - I like Ezekial and Genesis the best. It is made from sprouted grains, not normal flour (don't ask me how they do it). But those mixtures of grains make up perfect proteins. Lots of good fiber in it, too. I like to eat a slice at bedtime.

When I lived in the country, my landlord kept chickens. He bought a few younger hens from a bigger commercial chicken place (I don't know what to call it - a hennery?). He said that when he brought them home and put them down on the ground, they didn't know how to walk ! They caught on, or remembered after awhile I guess. But your little story there is helping me lose my appetite for them. I'd like to eat less meat than I do now, more fish. I sure do love eggs though.

earlpittsamurican wrote:

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The birds used for fryers now are a Cornish cross that will actually grow faster than his legs will keep with..

Maybe that is what my landlord brought home.

Marie wrote:

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You mean ginger like the spice? Powdered or the root? I didn't realize it had that effect. i'll have to keep that in mind.

Yep

earlpittsamurican wrote:

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The birds used for fryers now are a Cornish cross that will actually grow faster than his legs will keep with. High protein, high fat feeds will put one of those up to 5 pounds before you know it. But I still prefer a leghorn for a fryer. They are naturally a little leaner and still grow fairly fast. I didn't know what it was like to eat a marbled steak until I went to college. A grass fat Holstein steer was just a little tough, but with the right spices and a good pounding with a meat tenderizer, it was pretty good. But to grass fatten all our livestock, that would mean making major changes in what was raised and the varieties of grains. There's little in grain sorghum that humans can eat, it's too bitter. There isn't enough of the right soil in this part of the world to grow rice. Corn has been bred for livestock consumption and would need to have varieties changed for optimum human food. Soybeans already have a huge portion of the production that goes to human consumption. Americans are quite used to that marbled beef and changing to grass fat steers would send Americans to pork and chicken in hordes, essentially breaking the cattleman who spends a very large amount of money in the surrounding towns and cities. Nope, we're too far from the old days to ever be able to go back without dire consequences. If you want grass fat beef, there are a lot of organic producers itching to take your money.

I understand. However, it would make sense to slowly change for health and ecological reasons. We are seeing a lot of diseases from concentrating animals in feed-lot environments as well as problems with the disposing of wastes.

It may be economically valid to put fat on animals fast but it causes many problems. For one thing the animals are fed precious antibiotics as preventatives, not as cures. This is causing bacteria to become immune to them by natural selection. These are the same antibiotics that we use for human diseases and we see more and more "super bugs", as they are called, invading our hospitals etc. Second, growth hormones are getting into the food chain. We really have no idea how these chemicals affect people, especially children. Third, to grow the large quantities of feed grains, vast amounts of fossil fuel derived fertilizers are required, further driving up the price and polluting the earth. Fourth pesticides and herbicides are prodigiously required to raise the vast quantities of grains needed. We have little understanding of the long term effects on the environment or food chain. Then there are GM plants, and some animals, that are being introduced with little or no study of their long term effect on the gene pool.

What this amounts to, in my opinion, is that the driver of market economies does not include these types of problems, in the short term at the very least, and probably not the long term either since the profits are measured quarterly. We must have regulations and studies that help control the quality of life for us and our children. That is one reason that we need a viable government that answers to the people instead of the vested market interests.

I would add that our society is getting more and more obese as time goes on. We need to change our eating habits. It just makes sense to cut down on the fat we get from eating meat. We also need to find another form of entertainment other than going to an all you can eat buffet and loading our plates with fat and starch. I only eat there when there is a function that requires me to do so, which is not very often.

I know that it is hard to change eating habits. An example is milk. There are folks who say that they cannot stand to drink 2% milk and only drink whole milk. This is a very small change, after all whole milk is only a little over 3%! I personally have no trouble drinking skim milk.

With the increasing of adult onset diabetes, it make sense to watch what we eat.

But, by returning to the agriculture of 50 years ago, can we continue to be the world's chuckwagon? And for that matter, considering the lack of appreciation for the U.S. around the world, do we even want to? We've dragged Europe's butt out of slavery a couple times. Most of the humanitarian aid we send to the poor and starving ends up in the hands of power-crazed dictators. We pump more money into victims of natural disasters around the world than nearly any other country and they still scorn us. Maybe it's time to rethink our world position and start caring more for the Native Americans who are entering winter without coats and the Appalachian children who wonder whether they'll have a meal tonight.

earlpittsamurican wrote:

But, by returning to the agriculture of 50 years ago, can we continue to be the world's chuckwagon? And for that matter, considering the lack of appreciation for the U.S. around the world, do we even want to? We've dragged Europe's butt out of slavery a couple times. Most of the humanitarian aid we send to the poor and starving ends up in the hands of power-crazed dictators. We pump more money into victims of natural disasters around the world than nearly any other country and they still scorn us. Maybe it's time to rethink our world position and start caring more for the Native Americans who are entering winter without coats and the Appalachian children who wonder whether they'll have a meal tonight.

I don't think ditching all the advances that have been implemented in agriculture would be the answer. Just apply them more intelligently and weigh the consequences along with the profits.

Just because something makes money for some does not mean that it will be good for the many. This is a hard concept for many who believe the market will solve all our many problems. These are things that the government is needed for to make sure that the common good is the first consideration. It should not be for giving advantages to the vested interests of the corporations etc. While it is popular to dis the government, good government is the only means of solving these problems.

I do agree with helping the Native Americans and poor children of all races. We need to provide them with education and opportunities as well as clothes and food. Many are locked into a lifestyle and either do not have the money to break out of it or know how to do it.

earlpittsamurican wrote:

But, by returning to the agriculture of 50 years ago, can we continue to be the world's chuckwagon? And for that matter, considering the lack of appreciation for the U.S. around the world, do we even want to? We've dragged Europe's butt out of slavery a couple times. Most of the humanitarian aid we send to the poor and starving ends up in the hands of power-crazed dictators. We pump more money into victims of natural disasters around the world than nearly any other country and they still scorn us. Maybe it's time to rethink our world position and start caring more for the Native Americans who are entering winter without coats and the Appalachian children who wonder whether they'll have a meal tonight.

I agree. There is no reason any child or elder in the US should be living without food or shelter or heat, while we are throwing away money overseas. Why we haven't cleaned up our own back yard is beyond me.

Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:

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I don't think ditching all the advances that have been implemented in agriculture would be the answer. Just apply them more intelligently and weigh the consequences along with the profits.
Just because something makes money for some does not mean that it will be good for the many. This is a hard concept for many who believe the market will solve all our many problems. These are things that the government is needed for to make sure that the common good is the first consideration. It should not be for giving advantages to the vested interests of the corporations etc. While it is popular to dis the government, good government is the only means of solving these problems.
I do agree with helping the Native Americans and poor children of all races. We need to provide them with education and opportunities as well as clothes and food. Many are locked into a lifestyle and either do not have the money to break out of it or know how to do it.

That's one of the great things about American Agriculture. We can diversify and the few family farmers left can meet a lot of needs. Close to the cities, you'll see a lot of family farmers growing produce and making lots of money. Farther away, they are trying new products for this area like peanuts, cotton, and sunflowers. No one farmer is identical to another. I listen to Orion Samuelson every morning and he said that 95% of the farms in America are still family owned. Only 5% are owned by the likes of Cargill and Central Soya. They are quite large, but the lion's share of acreage is still in the hands of Joe Farmer. Ag is a very diverse industry already and will get more so in the future.

Old Timer wrote:

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This is perhaps the most interesting (to me anyway) conversation on the web. I hope you don't mind if I "butt" in.
I grew up on a farm in the north eastern part of Kansas. I'm 75 so it goes without saying that was quite awhile ago.
I remember my early years with a great deal of fondness. We had chickens, geese, ducks, and turkeys. In addition we milked cows, raised a few head of feeder cattle and pigs. Dad also had a small orchard with apple, peach and cherry trees and some grape vines.
This was all on 160 acres which at that time was considered a respectable acerage..today that's pretty small potatoes.
I recall that with the exception of salt, sugar, flour and a few other items; just about everything that we ate was a product of the farm.
It makes me sick to see what my children and grand children eat. Processed beef raised in unsanitary conditions, pork and chicken that is produced the same way and "franken" vegetables and grain make up 99.9% of their diet. Something has went very wrong with this country.
It is no wonder that children and adults are obese. Little or no exercise in addition to a diet laced with corn syrup made from genetically engineered grain is a formula for poor health.
Thanks for listening to an "old timer" complain. Please keep the conversation going, it's great.

I grew up on a 160 that sounds very much like yours. The only difference was we only had chickens. The other fowl weren't allowed on the farm unless they lit on the pond and it was duck season. No sheep either. I thought it was a treat to have a bologna sandwich on Saturday for lunch. Nearly everything we ate either came out of the deep freeze or a glass jar. I'm a firm beiever in genetic engineering in grain, however. There have been no ill effects found in G-E grain products yet.

Old Timer wrote:

<quoted text>
This is perhaps the most interesting (to me anyway) conversation on the web. I hope you don't mind if I "butt" in.
I grew up on a farm in the north eastern part of Kansas. I'm 75 so it goes without saying that was quite awhile ago.
I remember my early years with a great deal of fondness. We had chickens, geese, ducks, and turkeys. In addition we milked cows, raised a few head of feeder cattle and pigs. Dad also had a small orchard with apple, peach and cherry trees and some grape vines.
This was all on 160 acres which at that time was considered a respectable acerage..today that's pretty small potatoes.
I recall that with the exception of salt, sugar, flour and a few other items; just about everything that we ate was a product of the farm.
It makes me sick to see what my children and grand children eat. Processed beef raised in unsanitary conditions, pork and chicken that is produced the same way and "franken" vegetables and grain make up 99.9% of their diet. Something has went very wrong with this country.
It is no wonder that children and adults are obese. Little or no exercise in addition to a diet laced with corn syrup made from genetically engineered grain is a formula for poor health.
Thanks for listening to an "old timer" complain. Please keep the conversation going, it's great.

As one old-timer to another, it is good to have you post here. We represent a generation whose history is pretty well lost on the present generation. I guess that we are the last of the independent rural generation. Every family was a unit and had their own philosophies. As long as people were honest and took care of their own without infringing on others, they were accepted as they were. We did not need to be like everyone else and wear the latest fashions or listen to the same news clowns. We were truly our own selves. It wasn't all about money. It was about getting on with life. As long as you had your basic needs met there was no push to climb to the top on the backs of others. You simply harvested the crops, fed the livestock, fixed the fence or whatever else had to be done. When the work was done, you were able to enjoy your neighbors or simply relax and rest with a clean conscious. There were hardships but it was a good clean life.

Old Timer wrote:

<quoted text>
This is perhaps the most interesting (to me anyway) conversation on the web. I hope you don't mind if I "butt" in.
I grew up on a farm in the north eastern part of Kansas. I'm 75 so it goes without saying that was quite awhile ago.
I remember my early years with a great deal of fondness. We had chickens, geese, ducks, and turkeys. In addition we milked cows, raised a few head of feeder cattle and pigs. Dad also had a small orchard with apple, peach and cherry trees and some grape vines.
This was all on 160 acres which at that time was considered a respectable acerage..today that's pretty small potatoes.
I recall that with the exception of salt, sugar, flour and a few other items; just about everything that we ate was a product of the farm.
It makes me sick to see what my children and grand children eat. Processed beef raised in unsanitary conditions, pork and chicken that is produced the same way and "franken" vegetables and grain make up 99.9% of their diet. Something has went very wrong with this country.
It is no wonder that children and adults are obese. Little or no exercise in addition to a diet laced with corn syrup made from genetically engineered grain is a formula for poor health.
Thanks for listening to an "old timer" complain. Please keep the conversation going, it's great.

It would be intresting to me to hear your opinion as to just what is is that has ,"gone wrong" with the country. You have a perspective from your years that many do not have. My guess is that it may not be one thing but several and that these changes came along slowly leading to the point we are at now.

Geez. Every time someone's come in today to look at a car, it's been raining like a cow peein' on a flat rock. I am soaked. It reminds me of those times when the cows had to be milked or the steers fed regardless of the weather. There are times when I'm glad I'm not on the farm anymore. Not many, mind you, but today is one of them.