Deer kill planned for Valley Forge Park

Stop this insanity. We are supposed to be civilized people - not barbarians. Since when is it okay just to kill what we think is troublesome? Sterilization should be our first choice. People would gladly donate for the cost. Please let me know when interested groups are going to gather to protest. I want to participate. It is inhumane actions like this that makes all of us barbarians. The deer were here long before the "yuppies" who decided to take up their land with development of million dollar houses. They have a right to live!

Did you just move to Pennsylvania?

To Irene W.
You do not know what you are talking about.
Get your facts before you complain.
The deer have taken over the park and hundreds more deer are in the area then several years ago.
There is not enough food for all of them.
It is very dangerous to drive thru the area to work every day.
Closed off bow hunting is much safer than with guns.

So how does that mean we don't have a moral obligation to deal with the problem humanely rather than simply massacring it out of existence? What exactly does one have to "know" in order to agree to wholesale slaughter?

curious wrote:

To Irene W.
You do not know what you are talking about.
Get your facts before you complain.
The deer have taken over the park and hundreds more deer are in the area then several years ago.
There is not enough food for all of them.
It is very dangerous to drive thru the area to work every day.
Closed off bow hunting is much safer than with guns.

The fact is that the deer were here first. This issue should have been addressed and can be addressed even today by sterilization techniques. You chose to live in their home. We have a moral obligation to care for the innocents of this world - not to invade their home and arbitrarily kill them because we think they are in our way. No one gave us the right to kill anything that's bothersome. Our moral obligation is to care for these magnificant creatures - NOT destroy them for our own convenience. Shame on you!

Some people are just not getting it. These are our creatures. We have a moral obligation to care for them and to nurture their species. Man unfortunately has reduced everything to an us against them mentality and man's answer is to just obliterate anything that becomes an inconvenience to their pleasure or social goals. Life is a precious commodity and man, supposedly being the higher intelligence, has an obligation to cherish and protect all forms of life. Shame on those who put their own comfort and pleasure first!

Sam wrote:

Did you just move to Pennsylvania?

I've lived in Pennsylvania all of my life.

I get the point, but these deer are dangerous. My boss' brother was KILLED by a deer that ran into traffic near Phoenixville a few years ago, and three of my coworkers in the past three years have gotten into a deer-related car accidents going home on Charlestown Rd. You are basically taking your life in your hands when you travel on country roads in the fall/winter around this area. Sorry, but my 3-year-old's life is a lot more valuable to me than the lives of deer that overrun the area.

Kelly wrote:

I get the point, but these deer are dangerous. My boss' brother was KILLED by a deer that ran into traffic near Phoenixville a few years ago, and three of my coworkers in the past three years have gotten into a deer-related car accidents going home on Charlestown Rd. You are basically taking your life in your hands when you travel on country roads in the fall/winter around this area. Sorry, but my 3-year-old's life is a lot more valuable to me than the lives of deer that overrun the area.

That's precisely the point. The people who are driving need to be careful and aware of the safety of their own lives and the lives of their children. They are not being responsible human beings. They know that the deer have a tendency to gather by the roadways, but they don't slow down, they don't use their high beams, they don't look along the side to see if the deer are there. They just tear down the road. It is so sad that your boss' brother got killed, but humans need to take responsibility for their own actions. There is no excuse to irresponsibly drive through the deer areas with no thought to their safety or those of the people in their cars. They have no one to blame but themselves. I'm certain that you would be extremely cautious driving down the road with your little one in the car. You are not the target of my comments. It's the irresponsible humans who upset me.

If you love them, invite them to your home. we all live here, people come first, then animals.

forgive me, but do you not eat meat? in fact most of us eat meat in celebration. God made it that way. Pets are a different matter.

John wrote:

If you love them, invite them to your home. we all live here, people come first, then animals.
forgive me, but do you not eat meat? in fact most of us eat meat in celebration. God made it that way. Pets are a different matter.

The only part of your statement that I have difficulty with is when you say that "people come first". That is precisely my point. Peope are a higher intelligence which means that we are responsible to protect the wildlife that God has given to all of us. They don't have the intelligence to protect themselves from unmerciless slaughter by "intelligent" humans. They rely on us, albeit unknowingly, to protect them and their offspring. Since we are the higher intelligence, we have an obligation to preserve their safety and maintain their habitats so that they can live and survive without fear of becoming victim's of man's dark side, the dark side of arrogant superiority with no regard or sense of obligation to protect those who are less intelligent than we are. If there were no other means to preserve these magnificent, peaceful creature, man might have an excuse for random slaughter, but we are intelligent enough to have developed remedies that ensure safety for them and us. Our arrogance, however, prevents us from using it for peaceful means. We'd rather just kill anything that's in our way. That's the crime in which we all share who do nothing but stand by and let it happen.

Irene, are you really a deer masquerading as a human being? I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but like "curious" has said, there is not enough food for them. If they keep multiplying in numbers the way they have been, eventually they will start starving to death anyways. Besides, the "barbarians" that are going to "massacre" the deer are going to donate the venison to homeless shelters...do you object to feeding the homeless? Maybe if you focus on the good that can come out of this, you will feel much better about the situation.

The reason for the culling of the herd is that the woodlands in Valley Forge park are unable to regenerate themselves. The least little bit of new growth immediately gets eaten by the overly large deer population.

I know, we could give them all birth control. That'll be effective in what, 5 years, when the older deer start to die off. I don't think so.

Oh wait, lets just fence off certain areas, then the deer won't eat it. Hmmm, anyone hear of the budget shortage that is effecting the National Park Service?

How about we just 'move' the deer to somewhere else? Again to costly.

Let's just shoot them. Sounds terrible! Wait, the cost will be negligible. Shelters will get a decent quantity of free, super lean meat. Man, there has to be a down side to this... Oh, that's it, the animal rights people won't like it. Guess what? Too bad. This has to happen. It's cheap and the park needs action now. Besides, what are you going do to with the deer. Pretend they don't exist and everything will be OK? Just let this hunt happen and the herd and the park will be much better for it.

You animal rights folks realize that there is an organized deer season in PA every year right? It's purpose is two fold, to manage the herd and give sportsmen a chance to hunt some big game.

Personally I'd love to see the park import some coyotes and wolves. Darn, then people would complain when their little lap dogs go missing. Back to having to shoot them.

Now what I'm waiting for is the cage match between the tree huggers and the animal rights activists.

Kill em all

Danno wrote:

The reason for the culling of the herd is that the woodlands in Valley Forge park are unable to regenerate themselves. The least little bit of new growth immediately gets eaten by the overly large deer population.
I know, we could give them all birth control. That'll be effective in what, 5 years, when the older deer start to die off. I don't think so.
Oh wait, lets just fence off certain areas, then the deer won't eat it. Hmmm, anyone hear of the budget shortage that is effecting the National Park Service?
How about we just 'move' the deer to somewhere else? Again to costly.
Let's just shoot them. Sounds terrible! Wait, the cost will be negligible. Shelters will get a decent quantity of free, super lean meat. Man, there has to be a down side to this... Oh, that's it, the animal rights people won't like it. Guess what? Too bad. This has to happen. It's cheap and the park needs action now. Besides, what are you going do to with the deer. Pretend they don't exist and everything will be OK? Just let this hunt happen and the herd and the park will be much better for it.
You animal rights folks realize that there is an organized deer season in PA every year right? It's purpose is two fold, to manage the herd and give sportsmen a chance to hunt some big game.
Personally I'd love to see the park import some coyotes and wolves. Darn, then people would complain when their little lap dogs go missing. Back to having to shoot them.
Now what I'm waiting for is the cage match between the tree huggers and the animal rights activists.

And what I'm waiting for is to round up all of the hunters who love so much to kill, put them all in a pen where they can't escape, and let humans of the same mentality just open fire on them and see how it feels. That's what we do when we open fire on defenseless animals who have nowhere else to go because of our taking over their homes. Hunting should be illegal. Deer killing should be illegal also. No need to bring in coyote and wolves. The woman who supposedly lost babies to coyotes should never have been mothers in the first place. The animals protect their babies more than those so-called "mothers". Wolves don't eat humans for the sake of eating humans. They only attack humans who threaten them. As far as I am concerned, humans are the ones at fault in all of these situations and we certainl could use a lot less of them. Don't ever try to rationalize murder of innocent animals to me. It is not rational and never a good thing.

Jeff wrote:

Kill em all

Obviously you're a hunter who gets a thrill from killing innocents. It would be far better if someone had the same feeling towards the likes of you than the innocent animals who hurt no one.

Irene Wisniewski wrote:

<quoted text>
It is so sad that your boss' brother got killed, but humans need to take responsibility for their own actions. There is no excuse to irresponsibly drive through the deer areas with no thought to their safety or those of the people in their cars. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Wow--are you kidding me?! "No one to blame but themselves"? How utterly insensitive of you. You have no idea what you're talking about, lady, and the fact that you believe that all deer-related accidents are the fault of the drivers makes me question anything else that you say. How do you circumvent an accident when traveling at the SPEED LIMIT on the turnpike and a deer runs into traffic? Should everyone on the PA Tpke travel 15 mph? My boss' brother was a young man with children...a safe driver...whose only offense was to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. And now his four kids will grow up without a father--would you say to them, "Sorry! But you have no one to blame but your father"? These animals are deadly, whether you want to believe it or not.

Kelly wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow--are you kidding me?! "No one to blame but themselves"? How utterly insensitive of you. You have no idea what you're talking about, lady, and the fact that you believe that all deer-related accidents are the fault of the drivers makes me question anything else that you say. How do you circumvent an accident when traveling at the SPEED LIMIT on the turnpike and a deer runs into traffic? Should everyone on the PA Tpke travel 15 mph? My boss' brother was a young man with children...a safe driver...whose only offense was to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. And now his four kids will grow up without a father--would you say to them, "Sorry! But you have no one to blame but your father"? These animals are deadly, whether you want to believe it or not.

If traveling at 15 mph on the turnpike is what it takes, then so be it. Why do humans refuse to accept responsibility for their own carelessness? We are the only species who have a free will and yet we are precisely the ones who destroy the earth and its inhabitants with reckless abandon and try to rationalize it by saying that it was an "accident". It's not the animals who are deadly. It's the humans who are deadly. Animals don't deliberately kill humans. Humans, however, deliberately kill animals for sport and some kind of warped personal satisfaction. It is very sad for your boss' brother's family, but the children need to understand the lesson to be learned from even a moment's lack of caution when behind the wheel. I'm certain that it was not their father's intention to hurt the deer or even be involved in an accident with it, but the consequences of not driving defensively can be devastating and the rest of us should learn from the mistakes of others, even children can learn from the mistakes of their parents.

Wow Irene, you are crazy! Do you get mad when you see the "circle of life" take place in the wild? Humans kill deer and other animals for food...other animals kill other animals for food...sometimes animals kill humans for food...and so on. I'm having a hard time figuring out what you expect us (humans) to do. Have you ever stepped on an ant or killed any other living creature? I hope not, because that would make you a hypocrite! Also, do you drive 15 miles an hour on the turnpike?

Irene, what other activities or groups do you follow? For example, Green Peace, etc?