Coal Comes Back to Walden's Ridge

Property values are gonna drop, health care costs will go up, pollution will go up, crime will go up, cost of housing will go up.

9miletn wrote:

Property values are gonna drop, health care costs will go up, pollution will go up, crime will go up, cost of housing will go up.

sounds just like NOW!!! it is all happening without the mines being here. it actually can't make things much worse than they are now!!

funny wrote:

<quoted text>sounds just like NOW!!! it is all happening without the mines being here. it actually can't make things much worse than they are now!!

Oh yes it can, look at coal towns around the country. It's a sadness this area don't need.

Don't get me wrong I'm not opposed to the mine. I just think its being rushed.

I just uploaded this at http://daytonherald.net/coal-mining-in-rhea-c... . Since the Herald-News is so selective on what they are told to tell us, I decided to tell what I think about it. Just my opinion uploaded to one of my websites, one which I have decide to revive and increase hits to a target of 5,000 per month. It isn't like i haven't done it before. I am also going to publish my little "ramble" about coal mining here which is lengthy and will probably take two or more posts to get it all here. Then again, that is what this "Topix" gig is all about, right?

PART 1 ---

Notice how we all are just now essentially "hearing" about this coal mining venture? I bet a whole bunch of people never knew coal mining was even being discussed until recently. Why is that?

My short answer to "why" is that is this—the Herald-News. The Herald-News has continued to lower the standard for journalism for years. In days gone by, the newspaper slowly went from non-existent, to bad, to decent, to pretty good—swapped hands then during the last 20 plus years, or so, has went from being pretty good, to lacking, to not caring, to puffing stories, to the current generalized not caring about informing the public, but a primary focus on the NUMBERS. In other words, Rhea County citizens get to find out whatever "select people" want us to know.

This coal mining idea isn‘t new at al. Notwithstanding “county level” discussions, coal mining has been discussed even at the Dayton City level for a couple years now. While going through a series of audio recordings that I have recorded while attending city council meetings, or from an agent acting for me sitting silent in the crowd wired with nothing more than a audio recorder, coal has been discussed at least since early 2010. However, I really don't remember ever reading about any of these discussions in the Herald-News. Do you?

No matter how many of these jobs of "crawling 1,000 feet underground to dig coal" and the potential to earn good salaries, and a casting aside of the horrible coal mining of days gone, those days always had that "company store-community". Sure the mine would pay the miners BUT the miners basically had to spend their pay at the "company store". As usual, only select persons made any real money from a coal mine. The people that worked the mines were akin to ants and the jobs they do. The queen gets the royal treatment, not the workers. Even on a bug level, we each have a place. But certainly, times have changed and perhaps mentalities have changed. The jury is still out on that one. Just look at how our county is run...different people get elected but do things basically the same way. Like marking time in a timeless march never making it anywhere at all. Hard to envision going forward when the only one’s going forward are the ones that are “juiced in” to the system isn’t it?

My concern, other than numerous other factors excluding the "more jobs" rationale (the county officials will NOT be digging coal, someone will, but Ronnie Raper will not) fails in comparison to all this "safety first" jargon we always hear about. Further, rightly so, local mountain residents are worried that secondary roads will never be able to handle the extra weight of these trucks adding to the already logging and quarry trucks that currently use those roads. But the problems run much deeper than secondary, narrow roads.

PART 3
Therefore, 75 trucks that weigh a little less than 80,000 pounds each (weight of truck, dump trailer and load of coal) will be coming OFF the mountain for 10 hours per day. It is then to be assumed that if 75 trucks come OFF the mountain then most certainly 75 trucks will have to go back UP the mountain. In other words, a handful of trucks will be going up and down the mountain all day long, or at least for 10 hours on each given day. Rhea County can easily expect to see large coal carrying semi-trucks (even a dump truck, either way weight is weight) either coming DOWN or going UP the mountain for a minimum of 10 hours. In order for 75 loads to be hauled in a 10 hour work day that means that a minimum of 7.5 loads (round up to 8 loads for simplicity) must be hauled per hour. That means that every hour we have trucks, some loaded and some not loaded going up and down the mountain at a minimum of 8 times per hour. That means every 15 minutes you will have TWO loaded trucks going DOWN the mountain or unloaded trucks going back UP the mountain. Either way, if 75 loads are coming down the mountain then it just makes sense that 75 empty loads go back up it. Therefore, this 75 loads per day coming DOWN to the Tennessee River MUST go back up that mountain so essentially we have actually 75 trips down the mountain, therefore, 75 trips going back up for a total of 150 trips up and down the mountain ever 10 hour work day. So if we add 75 trucks UP and 75 trucks DOWN we can actually take my simple calculations and times it by TWO. Imagine every hour of every 10 hour day 16 trips per hour, up and down, up and down, up and down the mountain all day long. So in a way, we can easily project a rather conservative minimum of TWO trips every 15 minutes to a more realistic FOUR trips per 15 minutes. In other words, you have a truck either going UP or DOWN the mountain every few minutes for 10 hours every work day. Does that make YOU feel safe? Now, where are the runaway ramps? Has there been even a remote thought of building a runaway ramp for not only these trucks, but all other trucks that will come down that mountain? Do our officials think of public safety, or not. Either way, expect to see 75 loaded 80,000 pound potential disasters coming DOWN that mountain with 75 more empty disasters going UP the mountain only to get loaded back up and come back DOWN, a potential disaster.

I am no road expert and never give a road much thought until I start hitting holes, bumps, ruts, wrinkles and a host of other pavement damages. I am not going to address my opinion of “road damage” and “impact assessments”. I do however want to address a safety concern. I live near the base of Dayton Mountain where Highway 30 is a mere feet away from my home. There is a school at the base of the mountain on Delaware as well. Even now we here those “jake brakes”and smell those hot brakes of loaded trucks. I shutter at the thought if one of those maxed out in gross weight trucks losing their brakes and flying off the mountain. What if one truck loses its' brakes and crashes into the railroad overpass near the intersection of Highway 30 and Railroad St.? What then?

PART 4
As if these potential 80,000 disasters aren’t enough to worry about, what about the secondary roads on Dayton Mountain that will be extremely much more traveled by trucks hauling coal? This is merely a short synopsis of things that will be and things that “could be”. Either way, your officials will not be digging coal, will not be driving those trucks, will not have to worry about the fear factors UNLESS one of them, or someone dear to them happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time WHEN or IF one of those massive trucks loses their brakes. Too bad we always hear this old catch phrase of “well, if it only saves one life, it’s worth it” when it comes to public officials rambling off an excuse to spend public funds. I am amazed at how for over two years our officials knew this all was in the works, your Herald-News newspaper knew it was in the works but not a single person stepped up to tell us, the actual people placed in dire straights. I suppose as always, these “talks” were done out of public view, away from dissenting opinionated persons such as myself. No public discussions, no talks of safety, no runaway ramps, no anything. Just a rich company moving in knowing that this rural, jobless, broke county that they know is run by people who by abundance demonstrate classic ignorance when it comes to “local governing”, and sweep in with a few dollars, a promise of good things to come and they get a free reign. It is mind boggling.

So in conclusion, I guess losing a few lives, wiping out a few bridges and a fear factor multiplied by 150 per day in just traversing up and down the mountain now is a small price to pay in order to bring in a few good jobs (if crawling down a 1,000 ft. hole is a good job) to our local economy. I for one am very glad that I do not live on that mountain. I feel a sense of sorrow for those that do live up there and for those that must travel it everyday.

Roy Denton wrote:

PART 3
Therefore, 75 trucks that weigh a little less than 80,000 pounds each (weight of truck, dump trailer and load of coal) will be coming OFF the mountain for 10 hours per day. It is then to be assumed that if 75 trucks come OFF the mountain then most certainly 75 trucks will have to go back UP the mountain. In other words, a handful of trucks will be going up and down the mountain all day long, or at least for 10 hours on each given day. Rhea County can easily expect to see large coal carrying semi-trucks (even a dump truck, either way weight is weight) either coming DOWN or going UP the mountain for a minimum of 10 hours. In order for 75 loads to be hauled in a 10 hour work day that means that a minimum of 7.5 loads (round up to 8 loads for simplicity) must be hauled per hour. That means that every hour we have trucks, some loaded and some not loaded going up and down the mountain at a minimum of 8 times per hour. That means every 15 minutes you will have TWO loaded trucks going DOWN the mountain or unloaded trucks going back UP the mountain. Either way, if 75 loads are coming down the mountain then it just makes sense that 75 empty loads go back up it. Therefore, this 75 loads per day coming DOWN to the Tennessee River MUST go back up that mountain so essentially we have actually 75 trips down the mountain, therefore, 75 trips going back up for a total of 150 trips up and down the mountain ever 10 hour work day. So if we add 75 trucks UP and 75 trucks DOWN we can actually take my simple calculations and times it by TWO. Imagine every hour of every 10 hour day 16 trips per hour, up and down, up and down, up and down the mountain all day long. So in a way, we can easily project a rather conservative minimum of TWO trips every 15 minutes to a more realistic FOUR trips per 15 minutes. In other words, you have a truck either going UP or DOWN the mountain every few minutes for 10 hours every work day. Does that make YOU feel safe? Now, where are the runaway ramps? Has there been even a remote thought of building a runaway ramp for not only these trucks, but all other trucks that will come down that mountain? Do our officials think of public safety, or not. Either way, expect to see 75 loaded 80,000 pound potential disasters coming DOWN that mountain with 75 more empty disasters going UP the mountain only to get loaded back up and come back DOWN, a potential disaster.
I am no road expert and never give a road much thought until I start hitting holes, bumps, ruts, wrinkles and a host of other pavement damages. I am not going to address my opinion of “road damage” and “impact assessments”. I do however want to address a safety concern. I live near the base of Dayton Mountain where Highway 30 is a mere feet away from my home. There is a school at the base of the mountain on Delaware as well. Even now we here those “jake brakes”and smell those hot brakes of loaded trucks. I shutter at the thought if one of those maxed out in gross weight trucks losing their brakes and flying off the mountain. What if one truck loses its' brakes and crashes into the railroad overpass near the intersection of Highway 30 and Railroad St.? What then?

then stop using electricity!!!! if you are so interested in our future..stop using electricty!!!!

funny wrote:

<quoted text>then stop using electricity!!!! if you are so interested in our future..stop using electricty!!!!

Why should we stop using electricity? The coal that will come from this and surrounding areas is not the quality that's needed to generate power. If you had taken the time to educate yourself just a little about this subject you would know that this coal will be shipped to China and India to produce coke for making steel.

This coal mine will actually produce some jobs that pay enough to live on around here. I have to drive to Chattanooga to make 23 bucks an hour. Its too far to drive and waste gas. I gotta support a family on this and feed kids and pay for a house and all kinds of stuff. Mom cant work because she has to take care of baby. We need this mine bad! We could boost our economy around here with the help of these jobs. Maybe Dayton could get a good resturant or two. Think of all the other support jobs this mine will produce. Truck drivers, Fabrication shops, machine shops, railroad jobs, equip. operator jobs. All good wages if they dont try to pull the Dayton 9 dollars an hour temp service gig.

Thank god for coal wrote:

This coal mine will actually produce some jobs that pay enough to live on around here. I have to drive to Chattanooga to make 23 bucks an hour. Its too far to drive and waste gas. I gotta support a family on this and feed kids and pay for a house and all kinds of stuff. Mom cant work because she has to take care of baby. We need this mine bad! We could boost our economy around here with the help of these jobs. Maybe Dayton could get a good resturant or two. Think of all the other support jobs this mine will produce. Truck drivers, Fabrication shops, machine shops, railroad jobs, equip. operator jobs. All good wages if they dont try to pull the Dayton 9 dollars an hour temp service gig.

In short answer to a comment above, what good does it do me to stop using electricity? I thought TVA was a nuclear plant that provided MY electricity. Perhaps I missed something. As for more jobs for the economy, most certainly it will be high wage jobs. They must pay a high wage to get a man to crawl into a potential 1,000 foot deep grave. But I do understand how "economics" sure seems to govern...you know that "old almighty dollar". As my rather long article states, my issue was a SAFETY issue. Good dialog is a GOOD thing whether you like or hate this messenger shouldn't be the point of discussion. Nor should a general dislike or disagreement with this messenger sway dialog because those that do so will swagger out there by themselves. Count me out. But like I said, what about safety? What about 75 loads of coal going up and down the mountain? What about a school bus sitting at the red light at Hy 30 and Delaware and a 80,000 pound tractor trailer has lost it's brakes? I truly would like to hear if these trucks and their maintenance requirements should be remotely addressed. Too bad these "elected leaders" that I know for fact read this either here or elsewhere refuse to step up and address something as themselves. Sure seems being a man and standing for something has been eroded down to an obscurity.

In the words of Councilman Bobby Doss himself said, "everybody around here gets their information off Topix, everybody knows that...".

I can easily upload the audio.

If the mines are started on the mountain the best business to be in will be,
1.wrecker services
2.more ambulance services
3.more doctors offices
4 bigger earthquake proof hospital
5. triple the size of tommy snyder's highway repair crew and the state maintenance crews as well.

most electricity comes from a coal fired plant. 56% to be exact..only 22% comes from nuclear! ours might come from tva but most of our country is from a coal fired plant.

9miletn wrote:

<quoted text>
Why should we stop using electricity? The coal that will come from this and surrounding areas is not the quality that's needed to generate power. If you had taken the time to educate yourself just a little about this subject you would know that this coal will be shipped to China and India to produce coke for making steel.

coal is coal! what kind of coal does it take to make electricity? a special blend? you must be working for the government to know exactly where this coal is going! did you make the deal with them or your boss?

funny wrote:

<quoted text>coal is coal! what kind of coal does it take to make electricity? a special blend? you must be working for the government to know exactly where this coal is going! did you make the deal with them or your boss?

I worked at TVA Kingston coal fired power plant and yes, there are different grades of coal,some are rejected by TVA,if it has a high sulphur content.They take a sample from each truck load of coal as it crosses the weigh scale and test it,if it doesn't meet their specs. the coal is rejected and goes back to the company.

the way it is wrote:

<quoted text>
I worked at TVA Kingston coal fired power plant and yes, there are different grades of coal,some are rejected by TVA,if it has a high sulphur content.They take a sample from each truck load of coal as it crosses the weigh scale and test it,if it doesn't meet their specs. the coal is rejected and goes back to the company.

so..what we are saying then is the coal here is not quality coal? how would anyone know that without testing it? just wondering..it seems that everyone on here knows except me.

funny wrote:

<quoted text>so..what we are saying then is the coal here is not quality coal? how would anyone know that without testing it? just wondering..it seems that everyone on here knows except me.

It stated in the news article that this coal was of poor quality for producing energy. It also stated that the Waldenses Ridge coal would be exported to China and India. And the testing on the coal has been ongoing for years. We are just now hearing about all of this.

I just feel things are now being rushed on the communities that will be involved in this.

why would they pay up to $50,000 dollars a year on the average job for poor quality coal? all of these jobs that would be created...all of this money for useless coal!!!!! it just dont make sense. why even open the mines if it isnt worth the risk? right!

funny wrote:

<quoted text>so..what we are saying then is the coal here is not quality coal? how would anyone know that without testing it? just wondering..it seems that everyone on here knows except me.

But it has been tested, they did this when they core drilled ,found it was low grade coal but they will still profit from it by shipping to china and India,labor force works for almost nothing, they ship the finished product back to U.S.A. and we pay out the ying yang for it.

funny wrote:

why would they pay up to $50,000 dollars a year on the average job for poor quality coal? all of these jobs that would be created...all of this money for useless coal!!!!! it just dont make sense. why even open the mines if it isnt worth the risk? right!

Listen for a while before you make expansive statements! Believe me you don't know what you are talking about. This coal is not the "grade" our plants would be alllowed to use due to massive government regulation, however other places around the world will pay BIG BUCKS for it.

Yes. There is a difference in coal, however, "coal" and "coke" in general use of that coal and any monies made from it, are not the substantive issues. Safety is the issue. Isn't it?

Isn't that what THEY always tell us, "safety first...

Here is a very good article published in the Chattanooga Times Free Press. The Herald-News people should just pack up and go home, geeez. Here is the link: http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/apr/08/ne...

As per this newspaper article, there appears to be a community meeting about all this. Anyone that remotely supports or opposes this "coal mining" venture can go speak up and say something! Wow, imagine that. Go in mass and peacefully express your concerns. Hey, maybe coal mines and all are a good thing, who knows.

If it was a Topix meeting it would look more like a KKK convention with all these "anonymous" bulldogs we have here with bags over their heads lol.

In any event, I may or may not go to the meeting. Who knows. I guess in a way I feel that no matter what is said at any meeting, too much money has already been poured into this coal mining business venture, too many deals have been struck, and no amount of backwoods Appalachia mountain folk are gonna stop us...no wait, this isn't Virginia...

See, the lesson that should be learned is, We Rhea Countians are NOT dumb. We are not awkward and backwoodsie.(well, not all of us anyways) We are consistently misinformed, uninformed and spoon fed information by a bought and paid for news media. People of select groups feed off of that. They feed off our complacency. They control it all yet somehow "we" are the bosses. Hard to figure that one out when a "servant" governs his "master".

I remember one post some time back that responded "it's their world, we just live in it". That comment ranks high on the head scratching scale of reality, to me :)

Here is the meeting info.

What the meeting is: A public hearing on the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System permit now under consideration by the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation will be held at 6 p.m. April 26. At 6:30 p.m. a hearing will be held on permits sought from the U.S. Office of Surface Mining.

Where: Rhea County Courthouse in Dayton, Tenn.

Who: Officials with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fish and Wildlife and the Environmental Protection Agency also will attend.

Source: Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation; U.S. Office of Surface Mining