Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Good point.
Critical thinking not only leads to the rejection of illogical ideology, but may also lead to dancing. I think he is more afraid of the latter, but thats just me.

Well, you can hide the rejection of illogical ideology...

I would like to take this opportunity
to thank my hard working fan club
(the ones that consistently judge my posts as spam, clueless, and nuts).

This too may lead to dancing someday, inshallah.

May you continue your important and good work in good health.

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
I wouldnt assume MUQ has read George Orwell, or that he appreciates the snow reference.

Perhaps he might better appreciate a reference to writing one's name in the sand.

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Perhaps he might better appreciate a reference to writing one's name in the sand.

This says it all

http://media.photobucket.com/image/head%20in%...

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
This says it all
http://media.photobucket.com/image/head%20in%...

As well as this...

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-...

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
As well as this...
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-...

LOL.

I hope if MUQ tries this he wears a hat.

Frijoles wrote:

1.

The sources at the end of the wiki article have an interesting feature. You click the words on and they go to the page of the source, usually. Its called a "link". Then its up to you to evalaute the source if you care.

I am assuming you then have the natural intellectual ability to evaluate the credibility of a source on your own and filter out the garbage from the real stuff. If you dont, I recommend an American High School education, or the equivalent.

Using the Koran as a source, especially for matters of science, is a non starter with us. Dont waste your time on that here if you crave intelligent discussion.

2.

But I already gave you the meaning of the word here. You have no excuse to play dumb on that. Dont tell me NOONE knows its meaning.

But I and others have told a few times already that sodomy is not restricted to gay people. Stop ignoring us. That strategy may work at home, but it doesn’t work here.

You were the one who criticized wiki, so I provided another avenue to approach the topic. Ands it is moot, because you refuse to acknowledge what the rest of the world knows, that sodomy is not restricted to gays.

"It is against nature to have men and women as exact equals and fight it out in the world as equals..."

You would fit in well with the American Republican party. Too bad you are Muslim. It just goes to show.....

Ans.

A. Wiki and my position:

I am not against Wiki and any other source of information. But I do not consider it beyond reproach and criticism.

I see that on Muslims related issues it follows the same pattern as Western Media does. It lacks the basic understanding of Islam and Islamic positions on major issues.

That is why on Islamic matters and Islamic positions Wiki is not a reliable source of info at all.

If you want to know about Islam, your sources are Islamic books and not Wiki articles. That is my objection on use of Wiki as “first source of info” as you people think.

B. Quran and science:

This has also been answered by me many times before and I want to repeat it once more for benefits of those who still do not understand it.

Quran is not the book of science per see, it did not come to teach us science and Math and Medicine and Engineering. Its subject is to teach human how to deal with their Creator and their human fellows on this earth so as to live their lives in correct manner and pass the test of their lives.

Since God is Creator of Universe, He uses that as a reference for human kind to reflect on His Majesty and Glory and Wisdom and Power and Mercy.

It is in this reference that we find so many Comments on natural phenomenon and various forces in work in nature.

If Humans were grateful, these Hints coming from the Creator would have been very much appreciated and would have solved and simplified their search for the answers they are looking for.

But in their ignorance and arrogance, they look down on these “Hints fromn the Top” and try to spin out their own far fetched theories (lIke that of Blind Theory of Evolution and There is No Creator etc) and try to “prove” it from nature.

The results are forknown, they have to fail ,because they are based on flase assumptions.

The proper approach is to make a bridge between the two and remove the prevalent hostility and ignorance between each other.

If there is mutual respect and tolearence of each other, scientists can learn much from Quran, because it might answer many of their dilemmas and Muslims can strengthen their faith by seeing the various hints in Quran as being proven by observation and experimentation.

I do not know when this would be applicable, but I feel the day will come soon, when scientists realize their mistakes and their arrogance has come down…. may be after a couple of more generations?

Allah Knows Best.

MUQ wrote:

<quoted text>
Ans.
A. Wiki and my position:
I am not against Wiki and any other source of information. But I do not consider it beyond reproach and criticism.
I see that on Muslims related issues it follows the same pattern as Western Media does. It lacks the basic understanding of Islam and Islamic positions on major issues.
That is why on Islamic matters and Islamic positions Wiki is not a reliable source of info at all.
If you want to know about Islam, your sources are Islamic books and not Wiki articles. That is my objection on use of Wiki as “first source of info” as you people think.
.

Straw argument. I have NEVER cited wiki on Islamic theology.

You create conflicts where conflicts do not exist.

And when I quote wiki, on OTHER issues, like I said before, reasonably intelligent people have the capacity to weight the credibility of the sources and the argument,

MUQ wrote:

<quoted text>
Ans.
B. Quran and science:
This has also been answered by me many times before and I want to repeat it once more for benefits of those who still do not understand it.
Quran is not the book of science per see, it did not come to teach us science and Math and Medicine and Engineering. Its subject is to teach human how to deal with their Creator and their human fellows on this earth so as to live their lives in correct manner and pass the test of their lives.
Since God is Creator of Universe, He uses that as a reference for human kind to reflect on His Majesty and Glory and Wisdom and Power and Mercy.
It is in this reference that we find so many Comments on natural phenomenon and various forces in work in nature.
If Humans were grateful, these Hints coming from the Creator would have been very much appreciated and would have solved and simplified their search for the answers they are looking for.
But in their ignorance and arrogance, they look down on these “Hints fromn the Top” and try to spin out their own far fetched theories (lIke that of Blind Theory of Evolution and There is No Creator etc) and try to “prove” it from nature.
The results are forknown, they have to fail ,because they are based on flase assumptions.
The proper approach is to make a bridge between the two and remove the prevalent hostility and ignorance between each other.
If there is mutual respect and tolearence of each other, scientists can learn much from Quran, because it might answer many of their dilemmas and Muslims can strengthen their faith by seeing the various hints in Quran as being proven by observation and experimentation.
I do not know when this would be applicable, but I feel the day will come soon, when scientists realize their mistakes and their arrogance has come down…. may be after a couple of more generations?
Allah Knows Best.

Interesting comment

Now please provide me your scientific reason why you believe women are not capable of all the intellectual endeavors that men are capable of.

And please provide me your scientific reason why homosexual behavior is not natural.

I look forward to a Quran free discussion.

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Straw argument. I have NEVER cited wiki on Islamic theology.
You create conflicts where conflicts do not exist.
And when I quote wiki, on OTHER issues, like I said before, reasonably intelligent people have the capacity to weight the credibility of the sources and the argument,

MUQ seems to forget that Wikipedia is an open source collaborative. If he feels something is factually incorrect, he can always edit an article and correct it. But, I guess it's easier to criticize than to actually put some effort into it.

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Straw argument. I have NEVER cited wiki on Islamic theology.
You create conflicts where conflicts do not exist.
And when I quote wiki, on OTHER issues, like I said before, reasonably intelligent people have the capacity to weight the credibility of the sources and the argument,

Of course, it doesn't help that to MUQ, Islam is beyond reproach and no criticism of it will be tolerated. Hence, his rejection of any neutral, nonIslamic sources in favor of only sanitized, one-sided Islamic sources.

FSM Knows Best

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
MUQ seems to forget that Wikipedia is an open source collaborative. If he feels something is factually incorrect, he can always edit an article and correct it. But, I guess it's easier to criticize than to actually put some effort into it.

Well, to me its a moot point.

I never use Wiki to comment on Islam, and rarely if ever do I comment on Islamic theology even without it.

There have been times I noted the violent nature of societies ruled by Islam, but I use stats and not theology to base my comments on.

MUQs war against WIKI is more related to his endeavor to promote Koran as the ONLY authority for anything. Of course, I am giving him the opportunity to proove me wrong (see previous post).

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course, it doesn't help that to MUQ, Islam is beyond reproach and no criticism of it will be tolerated. Hence, his rejection of any neutral, nonIslamic sources in favor of only sanitized, one-sided Islamic sources.
FSM Knows Best

Exactly.

Anything less leads to dancing.

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly.
Anything less leads to dancing.

And then, something like this happens...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/taliban-b...

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
And then, something like this happens...
http://abcnews.go.com/International/taliban-b...

Speaking of the Taliban, have you been watching the Republican convention? What do you think? Do you think they will win over any new voters?

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Speaking of the Taliban, have you been watching the Republican convention? What do you think? Do you think they will win over any new voters?

Not a big fan of the modern day Republican party. I'm fairly moderate in my views and am willing to listen to arguments from either side, assuming the arguments are sound and logical and based on facts. The Republican party seems to eschew facts in virtually everything they say and do. What really concerns me about the party is the pandering to religious fundamentalists and exaggerated appeals to nationalism/patriotism.

What ever happened to reason and rationality. I watch these buffoons on TV and I can't help but cringe.

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Not a big fan of the modern day Republican party. I'm fairly moderate in my views and am willing to listen to arguments from either side, assuming the arguments are sound and logical and based on facts. The Republican party seems to eschew facts in virtually everything they say and do. What really concerns me about the party is the pandering to religious fundamentalists and exaggerated appeals to nationalism/patriotism.
What ever happened to reason and rationality. I watch these buffoons on TV and I can't help but cringe.

rabbee: oh yeah! then you never been to, any company christmass party i've been to.

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Not a big fan of the modern day Republican party. I'm fairly moderate in my views and am willing to listen to arguments from either side, assuming the arguments are sound and logical and based on facts. The Republican party seems to eschew facts in virtually everything they say and do. What really concerns me about the party is the pandering to religious fundamentalists and exaggerated appeals to nationalism/patriotism.
What ever happened to reason and rationality. I watch these buffoons on TV and I can't help but cringe.

Is it a lot worse than in past years?

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Speaking of the Taliban, have you been watching the Republican convention? What do you think? Do you think they will win over any new voters?

rabbee: well what difference does it make, when the most devious liar is going to win? and no matter what liar wins, the voters are always to blame. such a good, devil's deal! huh? it's like trying to play solatare, truly missing half the deck.

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Is it a lot worse than in past years?

Probably swings like a pendulum. Certainly, the era of McCarthyism was no moderate period for that party. Republicans tend to get spooked more easily from perceived threats (imagined or otherwise). I'd say they're definitely further right, though, than at other points in the past. Reagan would be considered a tax-happy socialist by today's standards.