Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.
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27,561 - 27,580 of 46,358 Comments Last updated 3 hrs ago

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#29165 Apr 5, 2012
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Another lie from Obama. From townhall meeting 2009:
"I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter, because, frankly, we historically have had a employer-based system in this country, with private insurers, and for us to transition to a system like that, I believe would be too disruptive."
So again, does Obama show respect to the American people when he lies to us?
And who cares if the republicans supported a mandate. It was a horrible idea then and still is now. Hate to break it to you, but both parties use anything controversial to gain power. They especially use safety, health, and the environment to bring about a centralized world government.
When something is broken, we need to fix it. Do you have any good ideas on how we are going to do this for healthcare? A mandate is a wonderful idea because indirectly we pay for care for those unable to care for themselves today. We pay through higher hospital fees to cover emergency room for those unable to pay, increased insurance premiums to cover those higher prices, coverage for illegal aliens, etc. We are forced to make these payments to cover those unable to do so. That surely is illegal also. I suppose those who do not want to pay for those unable to help themselves would rather they just suffered and died.

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#29166 Apr 5, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
Try doing a little research instead of goofing off.
kristy

Palm Bay, FL

#29167 Apr 5, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
When something is broken, we need to fix it. Do you have any good ideas on how we are going to do this for healthcare? A mandate is a wonderful idea because indirectly we pay for care for those unable to care for themselves today. We pay through higher hospital fees to cover emergency room for those unable to pay, increased insurance premiums to cover those higher prices, coverage for illegal aliens, etc. We are forced to make these payments to cover those unable to do so. That surely is illegal also. I suppose those who do not want to pay for those unable to help themselves would rather they just suffered and died.
As Obama said when he was running for president, a mandate is not the way to the fix the problem. If that were true, homelessness could be fixed by mandating everyone buy a house. There are so many ways to actually fix our healthcare, but the progressives only have one idea, single payer. First you need to get back to the basics...health insurance. Health insurance should be for catastrophic health issues, not for the sniffles, coughs, etc. Just like we pay to put gas in our car, change the oil, tires etc, and then we use the car insurance for the big stuff. The insurance would be much more affordable and if we got rid of the middle man for the little stuff, doctors would actually lower prices because they would be competing for our business and their overhead costs would come down not having to deal with the insurance companies. And it also goes to what some were saying earlier...we have become a nation spiraling down. We have generations of people who no longer see the value of paying for their own health. As we nation, we have no problem paying 200-300 dollars a month for cell phones, internet, cable or 500 dollars for an iPad or hundreds of dollars for an iPhone, but when it comes to being responsible for our health, we want the government to take control because we "just can't pay that money." We are a society that wants instant gratification and there is no instant gratification in buying health insurance.

Since: Apr 10

Milwaukee, WI USA

#29168 Apr 5, 2012
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
As Obama said when he was running for president, a mandate is not the way to the fix the problem. If that were true, homelessness could be fixed by mandating everyone buy a house. There are so many ways to actually fix our healthcare, but the progressives only have one idea, single payer. First you need to get back to the basics...health insurance. Health insurance should be for catastrophic health issues, not for the sniffles, coughs, etc. Just like we pay to put gas in our car, change the oil, tires etc, and then we use the car insurance for the big stuff. The insurance would be much more affordable and if we got rid of the middle man for the little stuff, doctors would actually lower prices because they would be competing for our business and their overhead costs would come down not having to deal with the insurance companies. And it also goes to what some were saying earlier...we have become a nation spiraling down. We have generations of people who no longer see the value of paying for their own health. As we nation, we have no problem paying 200-300 dollars a month for cell phones, internet, cable or 500 dollars for an iPad or hundreds of dollars for an iPhone, but when it comes to being responsible for our health, we want the government to take control because we "just can't pay that money." We are a society that wants instant gratification and there is no instant gratification in buying health insurance.
Off topic, but right on the money.
Northie

Spokane, WA

#29170 Apr 5, 2012
Steve Case wrote:
<quoted text>
Off topic, but right on the money.
On the contrary. Kristy is right on topic--for those, like you, who are here only to argue politics rather than science.
Teddy R

Muscat, Oman

#29171 Apr 5, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary. Kristy is right on topic--for those, like you, who are here only to argue politics rather than science.
... maintaining the charade that the AGW debate is anything but political, in which 'science' is trotted out on cue as a rhetorical show horse from time to time.
Mothra

Peoria, AZ

#29172 Apr 6, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
... maintaining the charade that the AGW debate is anything but political, in which 'science' is trotted out on cue as a rhetorical show horse from time to time.
s/b "nothing but political"?

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#29173 Apr 6, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary. Kristy is right on topic--for those, like you, who are here only to argue politics rather than science.
Well, if you want to argue science then argue science instead of politics. Of course if you do then you have to give up the consensus arguement since that is all about politics.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#29174 Apr 6, 2012
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
...If that were true, homelessness could be fixed by mandating everyone buy a house.
What a pitiful attempt.
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
There are so many ways to actually fix our healthcare, but the progressives only have one idea, single payer. First you need to get back to the basics...health insurance. Health insurance should be for catastrophic health issues, not for the sniffles, coughs, etc.
Why hasn't it been fixed? When the neocons had it all, they didn't do anything.
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>... We have generations of people who no longer see the value of paying for their own health. As we nation, we have no problem paying 200-300 dollars a month for cell phones, internet, cable or 500 dollars for an iPad or hundreds of dollars for an iPhone, but when it comes to being responsible for our health, we want the government to take control because we "just can't pay that money." We are a society that wants instant gratification and there is no instant gratification in buying health insurance.
Whose fault is that? The market has elevated their "needs" above the real needs of society. This was accomplished by making money easy for anyone to get and the constant bombardment of advertisements to get them to spend, spend, spend.
I have no phone bills like that. No cellular phone, no cable TV, no iPad, a ten year old car. I have been responsible for my self my entire life. I am retired and if it was not for Medicare, I, like hundred of thousands of other seniors would be bankrupt because of serious illness. I lived in a period when things were a bit different than they are today. Perhaps a little dose of that would help some like you to understand.
http://danny6114.posterous.com/1935-1939-phot...
Perhaps you would like to live like that.
The same attitude carries over into the idea of global warming. It is more important to keep the charade of unnecessary spending than the reality of the consequences.
kristy

Palm Bay, FL

#29175 Apr 6, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary. Kristy is right on topic--for those, like you, who are here only to argue politics rather than science.
Oh please...the science has ALWAYS been political. Climatologist Judith Curry stated below in an interview something I have always said....basically the science was settled and became political at the same time and ever since then the actual science has never been allowed to progress at a scientific level, but instead only at a political level.

Judith Curry: "Personally, I think we put the CO2 stabilization policy ‘cart’ way before the scientific horse. The UN treaty on dangerous climate change in 1992 was formulated and signed before we even had ‘discernible’ evidence of warming induced by CO2, as reported in 1995 by the IPCC second assessment report. As a result of this, we have only been considering one policy option (CO2 stabilization), which in my opinion is not a robust policy option given the uncertainties in how much climate is changing in response to CO2."
kristy

Palm Bay, FL

#29176 Apr 6, 2012
Steve Case wrote:
<quoted text>
Off topic, but right on the money.
How about those polar bears. Seems scientists are again "surprised." They were only 66% off on this one.

The debate about climate change and its impact on polar bears has intensified with the release of a survey that shows the bear population in a key part of northern Canada is far larger than many scientists thought, and might be growing.

The number of bears along the western shore of Hudson Bay, believed to be among the most threatened bear subpopulations, stands at 1,013 and could be even higher, according to the results of an aerial survey released Wednesday by the Government of Nunavut. That’s 66 per cent higher than estimates by other researchers who forecasted the numbers would fall to as low as 610 because of warming temperatures that melt ice faster and ruin bears’ ability to hunt. The Hudson Bay region, which straddles Nunavut and Manitoba, is critical because it’s considered a bellwether for how polar bears are doing elsewhere in the Arctic.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/...
kristy

Palm Bay, FL

#29177 Apr 6, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
What a pitiful attempt.
<quoted text>
Why hasn't it been fixed? When the neocons had it all, they didn't do anything.
<quoted text>
Whose fault is that? The market has elevated their "needs" above the real needs of society. This was accomplished by making money easy for anyone to get and the constant bombardment of advertisements to get them to spend, spend, spend.
I have no phone bills like that. No cellular phone, no cable TV, no iPad, a ten year old car. I have been responsible for my self my entire life. I am retired and if it was not for Medicare, I, like hundred of thousands of other seniors would be bankrupt because of serious illness. I lived in a period when things were a bit different than they are today. Perhaps a little dose of that would help some like you to understand.
http://danny6114.posterous.com/1935-1939-phot...
Perhaps you would like to live like that.
The same attitude carries over into the idea of global warming. It is more important to keep the charade of unnecessary spending than the reality of the consequences.
"If that were true, homelessness could be fixed by mandating everyone buy a house." Those aren't my words...I was just quoting Obama from 2008. But I agree, a lot of what Obama says is pitiful.

I agree that the republicans haven't done anything to fix healthcare. But I believe they got their wake up call and have come up with some pretty good plans but of course there is no compromise when both sides are so far away from each other in how to fix the problem.

Yes we are bombarded with ads to spend, spend, spend just as our federal government is doing the same. The fix is not to have single payer healthcare run by an already bankrupt country. It makes us dependent on a system that will run out of money.

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#29178 Apr 6, 2012
Is threatening my kids with a CO2 demise going to make anyone vote Liberal? CO2 crisis fear mongering could keep Republicans in power forever. Climate change wasn’t sustainability, it was a 26 year old death threat to billions of children.
If there were real legal consequences for you remaining climate blame believers in condemning our children to a CO2 death, none of you bed wetting, drama queen baby talk intellectuals would still be shooting your mouths off like this. You climate cowards didn’t love the planet; you hated humanity for real planet lovers are happy, and not disappointed the crisis wasn’t real because it was exaggerated.
This wasn’t about a changing climate; it was about controlling a changing climate…….pure insanity! Meanwhile, the entire world of SCIENCE had allowed bank-funded and corporate-run “CARBON TRADING STOCK MARKETS” to trump 3rd world fresh water relief, starvation rescue and 3rd world education for just over 26 years of insane attempts at climate CONTROL.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#29179 Apr 6, 2012
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
"If that were true, homelessness could be fixed by mandating everyone buy a house." Those aren't my words...I was just quoting Obama from 2008. But I agree, a lot of what Obama says is pitiful.
I agree that the republicans haven't done anything to fix healthcare. But I believe they got their wake up call and have come up with some pretty good plans but of course there is no compromise when both sides are so far away from each other in how to fix the problem.
Yes we are bombarded with ads to spend, spend, spend just as our federal government is doing the same. The fix is not to have single payer healthcare run by an already bankrupt country. It makes us dependent on a system that will run out of money.
Your ideas for healthcare parallel your ideas for global warming. Just let things work themselves out.

Here is the quote in context, "I mean, if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house. The reason they don’t buy a house is they don’t have the money. And so, our focus has been on reducing costs, making it available." He wasn't supporting a mandate to buy insurance. That was what was forced upon Congress to get something done.

The truth is that countries that have single payer health care systems spend about half as much on health care as we do and still provide health care as good as or better than ours according to the AMA. But we digress from the topic.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#29180 Apr 6, 2012
mememine69 wrote:
This wasn’t about a changing climate; it was about controlling a changing climate…….pure insanity! Meanwhile, the entire world of SCIENCE had allowed bank-funded and corporate-run “CARBON TRADING STOCK MARKETS” to trump 3rd world fresh water relief, starvation rescue and 3rd world education for just over 26 years of insane attempts at climate CONTROL.
Goodness, a science hater! Such a conspiracy!
kristy

Palm Bay, FL

#29181 Apr 6, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ideas for healthcare parallel your ideas for global warming. Just let things work themselves out.
Here is the quote in context, "I mean, if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house. The reason they don’t buy a house is they don’t have the money. And so, our focus has been on reducing costs, making it available." He wasn't supporting a mandate to buy insurance. That was what was forced upon Congress to get something done.
The truth is that countries that have single payer health care systems spend about half as much on health care as we do and still provide health care as good as or better than ours according to the AMA. But we digress from the topic.
Not really such a digression. If you put the government in charge of healthcare, they are the final say of your health. Now combine that with Agenda 21 and you get decisions based not on your health, but on the health of the Earth.

From The Telegraph:

An elderly woman was ordered to find a new GP because the “carbon footprint” of her two-mile round trips to the surgery where she had been treated for 30 years was too large.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/91...

I don't know about you, but I would like to go towards a system that gives me more choices and lets me decide rather than a system that mandates what I do. Both healthcare and Agenda 21 takes us down the road of less choices and more mandates. They are all very much interconnected.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#29182 Apr 6, 2012
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really such a digression. If you put the government in charge of healthcare, they are the final say of your health. Now combine that with Agenda 21 and you get decisions based not on your health, but on the health of the Earth.
From The Telegraph:
An elderly woman was ordered to find a new GP because the “carbon footprint” of her two-mile round trips to the surgery where she had been treated for 30 years was too large.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/91...
I don't know about you, but I would like to go towards a system that gives me more choices and lets me decide rather than a system that mandates what I do. Both healthcare and Agenda 21 takes us down the road of less choices and more mandates. They are all very much interconnected.
And if that choice means that you cannot afford the high priced health insurance, you die? Without a safety net that is exactly what would happen to untold thousands. You can decide if you want to buy a new car. The result is probably not life threatening if you cannot afford a new one. There is no choice except death if you have a heart attack or some disease that requires extensive medical intervention and and no insurance or funds to pay for it with no safety net.

According to many that is exactly what they would do. Let them die. However, we do provide a safety net. You have no choice whether to pay for it or not. Some of the fees are hidden like higher hospital and doctor fees and higher insurance premiums to cover the losses. Then there are government funds that you pay for through taxes. My question is, what is the difference between being forced indirectly to pay for these costs or forcing everyone to buy insurance?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#29183 Apr 6, 2012
Just Bozo wrote:
My question is, what is the difference between being forced indirectly to pay for these costs or forcing everyone to buy insurance?
That's a very silly question.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#29185 Apr 6, 2012
Climate change mitigation by the federal government is like a new law mandating everyone either buy health insurance or pay a fine.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#29186 Apr 6, 2012
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>That's a very silly question.
Answer it then.

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