Attorney general's office says counties can't ban pain-management clinics

Apr 25, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Lexington Herald-Leader

County governments don't have the right to ban pain-management clinics, according to a state attorney general's opinion.

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bad news

Prestonsburg, KY

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#1
Apr 25, 2011
 
The suggestion of requiring a certificate of need for a pain clinic would be a good thing to stop any more from opening.

Also anyone who knows factually of improper or over prescribing practices by any pain clinic can file complaints with the State Board of Medical Licensure.

Since it has been found illegal for county governments to ban these clinics the only hope is to watch them very closely for any impropriety. At least then sanctions can be imposed, and hopefully we can save our community from further destruction.

Since only the state or the federal government can impose any laws regarding these clinics then I guess we need to look to them for any real solution to this problem.
tyco

Mckee, KY

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#2
Apr 26, 2011
 

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just like you can't stop any business from opening their doors. wait until they do something wrong before you throw stones.
Disgusted

Danville, KY

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#3
Apr 27, 2011
 

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It makes me sick to my stomach that now not only will the Kentucky legislature not pass any laws at the state level to to stop the spread of drugs but they are all also keeping local officals from doing so. They disguste me. IMO they are on the take. The pharmeseutical companies are now our NEW MASTERS and our corrupte politicians are little more than an instrument at there disposal.

I do however appluad Ray Jones and Hal Rogers for at least going against the Frankfort establishment and trying to get laws passed to stop the spread of this disease.
Cite

Booneville, KY

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#4
Apr 27, 2011
 
bad news wrote:
The suggestion of requiring a certificate of need for a pain clinic would be a good thing to stop any more from opening.
Also anyone who knows factually of improper or over prescribing practices by any pain clinic can file complaints with the State Board of Medical Licensure.
Since it has been found illegal for county governments to ban these clinics the only hope is to watch them very closely for any impropriety. At least then sanctions can be imposed, and hopefully we can save our community from further destruction.
Since only the state or the federal government can impose any laws regarding these clinics then I guess we need to look to them for any real solution to this problem.
Cite your sources that your statement is true and I might believe. When counties and cities canno't govern their own boundaries then we have to ask what role government has and why we need to continue to pay taxes.
bad news

Prestonsburg, KY

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#5
Apr 27, 2011
 
Cite wrote:
<quoted text>
Cite your sources that your statement is true and I might believe. When counties and cities canno't govern their own boundaries then we have to ask what role government has and why we need to continue to pay taxes.
I didn't make the decision. It came from the attorney general's office. The decision was apparently based upon the fact that local government cannot interfere with the practice of medicine. Anything to do with that is controlled by the state board of medical licensure. Here is the link again to the story:

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/04/26/1719142/at...
tweezer

Mckee, KY

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#6
Apr 27, 2011
 

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If you wanted to open up a business, would you want the government to stop you from doing so?

They haven't done anything wrong yet. I'm sure they will have plenty of chances to do so. Medical practices are under so much scrutiny and red tape (plus casper is in effect), that they will have a hard enough time as it is.

No one get's strong drugs without an MRI, and all doctors are trained in the detection of drug seeking individuals. Pill counts and drug tests allow those selling their drugs ONE chance. After that they are cut off, never to get anything ever again.

Seems to me like we have all this stuff set up to protect our little area. They aren't this strict in areas outside of Kentucky and Tennessee, and there is a reason. We are a highly prone area for prescription abuse. And the doctors know that. They are under big brothers eyes just like we all are.
curious

Prestonsburg, KY

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#7
Apr 27, 2011
 
tweezer wrote:
If you wanted to open up a business, would you want the government to stop you from doing so?
They haven't done anything wrong yet. I'm sure they will have plenty of chances to do so. Medical practices are under so much scrutiny and red tape (plus casper is in effect), that they will have a hard enough time as it is.
No one get's strong drugs without an MRI, and all doctors are trained in the detection of drug seeking individuals. Pill counts and drug tests allow those selling their drugs ONE chance. After that they are cut off, never to get anything ever again.
Seems to me like we have all this stuff set up to protect our little area. They aren't this strict in areas outside of Kentucky and Tennessee, and there is a reason. We are a highly prone area for prescription abuse. And the doctors know that. They are under big brothers eyes just like we all are.
Right,that is why there have been so many "pain clinics" raided and shut down. Doctors do not have to run a Kasper unless they want it. It is not a requirement for them to do this on their patients. Who reads the MRI that has to be done? How in the heck can there be so many people in this small little area that require daily narcotics?
tweezer

Mckee, KY

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#8
Apr 27, 2011
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Right,that is why there have been so many "pain clinics" raided and shut down. Doctors do not have to run a Kasper unless they want it. It is not a requirement for them to do this on their patients. Who reads the MRI that has to be done? How in the heck can there be so many people in this small little area that require daily narcotics?
Thank you for agreeing. I did not know that they don't have to run Kasper unless they want to. I figured it was a common practice.

True, I can't figure that out either, about so many people needing daily narcotics (other than people needing them for illegal reasons). I know the most common symptom of ailments is pain. Most docs out of med school probably look for where the need is and it looks like pain management is king.

Of course, doctors will try to satisfy a patients needs. Years ago, morphine and cocaine were prescribed to treat something as simple as fatigue and cramps.

Looks like things haven't changed much!:) It's the same drugs with a different form. God help us all.
CLASSIFIED

Stanton, KY

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#9
Apr 27, 2011
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Right,that is why there have been so many "pain clinics" raided and shut down. Doctors do not have to run a Kasper unless they want it. It is not a requirement for them to do this on their patients. Who reads the MRI that has to be done? How in the heck can there be so many people in this small little area that require daily narcotics?
well the reason i need them is because i broke my neck in 08 in an accident,but no matter legit or not if you get a prescription around here you are automatically labeled a dopehead,unlike others not all i need my medication.not everyday do i need them but sometimes the pain gets so bad that a person has to have them
curious

Prestonsburg, KY

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#10
Apr 28, 2011
 
CLASSIFIED wrote:
<quoted text>well the reason i need them is because i broke my neck in 08 in an accident,but no matter legit or not if you get a prescription around here you are automatically labeled a dopehead,unlike others not all i need my medication.not everyday do i need them but sometimes the pain gets so bad that a person has to have them
I am sorry that you have to suffer with chronic pain. My late husband suffered with rather chronic pain (secondary to a serious accident when he was young) for forty plus years before he died; but he was stubborn and had a high pain tolerance so he just treated it with Ibuprofen.

Unfortunately dealing with narcotics has become such a lucrative business for some physicians, and some people who choose to sell their meds, that those with legitimate chronic pain have to suffer the consequences of the greed of others.

You might try to alleviate some of your pain with anti inflammatories. There is a new one on the market that does not cause the GI side effects that most of them can cause.
Anonymous

Pikeville, KY

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#11
May 5, 2011
 

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When are you control freaks going to figure out that the problem is with the people. Not a doctors office. To answer your question about so many needing pain medication. A lot of people have worked under the mountain mining coal. Which is hard job. One that requires a lot of them to be on their knees all day long. Knees and backs give out.
Sandy broken

Orange Park, FL

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#12
Jul 28, 2011
 
It frustrates me to no end that people are so clueless and so mean that they judge others harshly. God forbid any one of you sitting and judging those of us in chronic pain end up in our situation - it's not a pleasant one I can assure you.

A drunk driver ruined my life, 10yrs ago. I live in Florida - the fact that folks in Kentucky have run their problem out of state rather than dealing with it in a proper manner has made it harder on real CPP in other states.

As mentioned - the back breaking work over years and years have given people cause to seek pain management. Those that abuse or sell should be punished - not those that need real help! The irony is that junkies find ways around the system to get the drugs - going so far as to steal them from wholesalers prior to those medications ever getting to a pharmacy. And since these companies can only make so many of them a year means every year there is a month where all pharmacies are out of certain medications.

This is not a doctors fault, nor a cancer patient or anyone else in chronic pain.

I suggest checking out the American Pain Foundation to get an understanding of the problem of pain in this country. It's UNDER TREATED! People are suffering needlessly all so those that "think" they know what is going on or have a junkie relative they can't get help for are appeased.

No one should suffer and die in agony. No one. A few bad apples truly ruins the lot. But the blame game of pointing fingers at anyone in a situation like mine or a doctor that helps me have some quality of life has to stop. We need to get real and treat the reasons people abuse any drug - alcohol is the #1 abused drug in the US and perfectly legal.

The LEAST abused drug in the US is prescription narcotics (but the media LOVES to talk about it at the moment making it sound much worse than it is!)- many of which are better and cleaner than the strange alternative anti-depressants/muscle relaxers etc. ALL medications come with problems - many non-narcotic medications have more side effects and can be highly addictive than narcotics used as prescribed by someone that requires them.

The number of deaths a year due to prescription drugs has little to do with narcotics and the official number is all deaths related to prescription drugs.(ok off my soap box now. Just so angry with ignorance and actual junkies making it hard on people who have legit problems - we are suffering.)
nothardly

Richmond, KY

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#13
Jul 28, 2011
 
Sandy broken wrote:
It frustrates me to no end that people are so clueless and so mean that they judge others harshly. God forbid any one of you sitting and judging those of us in chronic pain end up in our situation - it's not a pleasant one I can assure you.
A drunk driver ruined my life, 10yrs ago. I live in Florida - the fact that folks in Kentucky have run their problem out of state rather than dealing with it in a proper manner has made it harder on real CPP in other states.
As mentioned - the back breaking work over years and years have given people cause to seek pain management. Those that abuse or sell should be punished - not those that need real help! The irony is that junkies find ways around the system to get the drugs - going so far as to steal them from wholesalers prior to those medications ever getting to a pharmacy. And since these companies can only make so many of them a year means every year there is a month where all pharmacies are out of certain medications.
This is not a doctors fault, nor a cancer patient or anyone else in chronic pain.
I suggest checking out the American Pain Foundation to get an understanding of the problem of pain in this country. It's UNDER TREATED! People are suffering needlessly all so those that "think" they know what is going on or have a junkie relative they can't get help for are appeased.
No one should suffer and die in agony. No one. A few bad apples truly ruins the lot. But the blame game of pointing fingers at anyone in a situation like mine or a doctor that helps me have some quality of life has to stop. We need to get real and treat the reasons people abuse any drug - alcohol is the #1 abused drug in the US and perfectly legal.
The LEAST abused drug in the US is prescription narcotics (but the media LOVES to talk about it at the moment making it sound much worse than it is!)- many of which are better and cleaner than the strange alternative anti-depressants/muscle relaxers etc. ALL medications come with problems - many non-narcotic medications have more side effects and can be highly addictive than narcotics used as prescribed by someone that requires them.
The number of deaths a year due to prescription drugs has little to do with narcotics and the official number is all deaths related to prescription drugs.(ok off my soap box now. Just so angry with ignorance and actual junkies making it hard on people who have legit problems - we are suffering.)
sorry but KY didnt cause the problems in Florida. Florida is a joke when it comes to laws regarding prescription narcotics and oversight of pain treatment centers. You have the worst doctors in the state. Florida is a disgrace.
nothardly

Richmond, KY

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#14
Jul 28, 2011
 
Sandy broken wrote:
It frustrates me to no end that people are so clueless and so mean that they judge others harshly. God forbid any one of you sitting and judging those of us in chronic pain end up in our situation - it's not a pleasant one I can assure you.
A drunk driver ruined my life, 10yrs ago. I live in Florida - the fact that folks in Kentucky have run their problem out of state rather than dealing with it in a proper manner has made it harder on real CPP in other states.
As mentioned - the back breaking work over years and years have given people cause to seek pain management. Those that abuse or sell should be punished - not those that need real help! The irony is that junkies find ways around the system to get the drugs - going so far as to steal them from wholesalers prior to those medications ever getting to a pharmacy. And since these companies can only make so many of them a year means every year there is a month where all pharmacies are out of certain medications.
This is not a doctors fault, nor a cancer patient or anyone else in chronic pain.
I suggest checking out the American Pain Foundation to get an understanding of the problem of pain in this country. It's UNDER TREATED! People are suffering needlessly all so those that "think" they know what is going on or have a junkie relative they can't get help for are appeased.
No one should suffer and die in agony. No one. A few bad apples truly ruins the lot. But the blame game of pointing fingers at anyone in a situation like mine or a doctor that helps me have some quality of life has to stop. We need to get real and treat the reasons people abuse any drug - alcohol is the #1 abused drug in the US and perfectly legal.
The LEAST abused drug in the US is prescription narcotics (but the media LOVES to talk about it at the moment making it sound much worse than it is!)- many of which are better and cleaner than the strange alternative anti-depressants/muscle relaxers etc. ALL medications come with problems - many non-narcotic medications have more side effects and can be highly addictive than narcotics used as prescribed by someone that requires them.
The number of deaths a year due to prescription drugs has little to do with narcotics and the official number is all deaths related to prescription drugs.(ok off my soap box now. Just so angry with ignorance and actual junkies making it hard on people who have legit problems - we are suffering.)
nobody listen to the propaganda of the APA. They are liars. So ultrams are more addictive and deadly than oxycontin?
understanding

Prestonsburg, KY

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#15
Jul 28, 2011
 
Sandy broken wrote:
It frustrates me to no end that people are so clueless and so mean that they judge others harshly. God forbid any one of you sitting and judging those of us in chronic pain end up in our situation - it's not a pleasant one I can assure you.
A drunk driver ruined my life, 10yrs ago. I live in Florida - the fact that folks in Kentucky have run their problem out of state rather than dealing with it in a proper manner has made it harder on real CPP in other states.
As mentioned - the back breaking work over years and years have given people cause to seek pain management. Those that abuse or sell should be punished - not those that need real help! The irony is that junkies find ways around the system to get the drugs - going so far as to steal them from wholesalers prior to those medications ever getting to a pharmacy. And since these companies can only make so many of them a year means every year there is a month where all pharmacies are out of certain medications.
This is not a doctors fault, nor a cancer patient or anyone else in chronic pain.
I suggest checking out the American Pain Foundation to get an understanding of the problem of pain in this country. It's UNDER TREATED! People are suffering needlessly all so those that "think" they know what is going on or have a junkie relative they can't get help for are appeased.
No one should suffer and die in agony. No one. A few bad apples truly ruins the lot. But the blame game of pointing fingers at anyone in a situation like mine or a doctor that helps me have some quality of life has to stop. We need to get real and treat the reasons people abuse any drug - alcohol is the #1 abused drug in the US and perfectly legal.
The LEAST abused drug in the US is prescription narcotics (but the media LOVES to talk about it at the moment making it sound much worse than it is!)- many of which are better and cleaner than the strange alternative anti-depressants/muscle relaxers etc. ALL medications come with problems - many non-narcotic medications have more side effects and can be highly addictive than narcotics used as prescribed by someone that requires them.
The number of deaths a year due to prescription drugs has little to do with narcotics and the official number is all deaths related to prescription drugs.(ok off my soap box now. Just so angry with ignorance and actual junkies making it hard on people who have legit problems - we are suffering.)
Why doesn't Florida stop the writing of scripts for those coming in from out of state i.e. Kentucky. Now they even have cheap flights to Florida where they can score their drugs even quicker. From what I have read Florida has even refused to track these drug deals.

A legtimate CPP shouldn't have problems getting the medication that they need when their personal physician knows the history; unless they have also reached the level of addiction of the non chronic pain people, and are now too misusing their medication. You do develop a level of tolerance and dependence when taking narcotics. Itis unavoidable when one is uses them long term whatever the reason.

I do have empathy for people with chronic pain as I had a very close relative whose body was crushed by a train. They lived with chronic pain, yet chose not to take narcotics. I am not saying that is the answer for everyone; but simply that I do understand.
Sandy broken

Orange Park, FL

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#16
Jul 28, 2011
 
understanding wrote:
<quoted text>
Why doesn't Florida stop the writing of scripts for those coming in from out of state i.e. Kentucky. Now they even have cheap flights to Florida where they can score their drugs even quicker. From what I have read Florida has even refused to track these drug deals.
A legtimate CPP shouldn't have problems getting the medication that they need when their personal physician knows the history; unless they have also reached the level of addiction of the non chronic pain people, and are now too misusing their medication. You do develop a level of tolerance and dependence when taking narcotics. Itis unavoidable when one is uses them long term whatever the reason.
I do have empathy for people with chronic pain as I had a very close relative whose body was crushed by a train. They lived with chronic pain, yet chose not to take narcotics. I am not saying that is the answer for everyone; but simply that I do understand.
Good god you lot are clueless. New laws this year have made it harder. I have never been to a doctor that had out of state patients and the only area I know that has out of state patients is South Florida. I am in NE Florida. They changed the laws and are scaring the crap out of doctors and real pain patients DO get left in a mess.

I have worked really hard to be functioning at the level I currently am functioning. Getting a decent doctor tho gets harder and harder. I havent had many, one was older and went into a diabetic coma on me and had to retire. One moved.
Anytime they stick a needle in my neck I migraine for days on end but those are the ones that take insurance - and they can rack up the charges to them. Medication mngt which patients are being pushed off too now, cancer patients etc only take CASH. Why? Because they CAN and they do not keep malpractice insurance and do not take any form of insurance - so CPP's like myself start to be put in a difficult spot.
WHAT AM I TO DO? Over 10yrs I have tried every herbal method, been poked and prodded, yet my disease is progressive - my neck has herniated disks, my arms have damaged nerves and on top of all that they think I have MS!
I cannot travel long distances to get medication. The fatigue is insane. Less fatigue when meds managed properly along with physical therapy. I also swim to keep up my mobility however I am still disabled and only 40yrs old.
So you guys reckon you have all the answers - please, tell me oh wise ones!
So sick and tired of folks with no clue judging others. The irony that it comes out of the self proclaimed Christian states has not been lost on me either.
Karma is a biotch tho - ya'll keep judging and one day you may find yourself in my position. Like I said it's not fun.
mistaken

Westminster, MD

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#17
Jul 28, 2011
 
An attorney general's opinion does NOT have the force of law except when it comes to open records. Just because the attorney general's office says a local government cannot regulate a pain clinic, or ban one from its boundaries, does not mean that the government cannot. I think the local government should go ahead if it wants to ban pain clinics not associated with hospitals, as Knott County has tried to do, and let it be challenged in court.
Sandy broken

Orange Park, FL

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#18
Jul 28, 2011
 
nothardly wrote:
<quoted text>
nobody listen to the propaganda of the APA. They are liars. So ultrams are more addictive and deadly than oxycontin?
No connection to American Pain Society (APA); but an active member of APF - American Pain Foundation. They have advocates for CPPs and their newsletters do not contain information as you stated above but will link to new studies from all sorts of places like New England Journal of Medicine (a peer review medical journal, highly respected) and other studies. Links for cancer patients as well as the many different diseases associated with chronic pain.

My personal experience with the above medications, ultrams and oxycontin are two very different medications. One would be given in acute pain situations (surgery, broken arm nothing long term) for those that cannot tolerate due to allergies etc codeine or codeine like meds such as hydrocodone. Where Oxycontin is a CP medication, when taken as prescribed is safe (no Tylenol which kills the liver) for long term treatment of pain that is chronic.

There are many drugs similar to oxycontin - and drugs that contain the active ingredient in oxycontin - which is oxycodone. Oxycontin has a special coating (a new one that cannot be pulled off tho I do not take it) that dissolves over a 8-12hr period of time.

Ultrams have problems and can be liver damaging. It is a synthetic drug. It is not an opiate.(not derived from opium but 100% lab created). Again very different from oxycontin and really cannot be compared, as it is like comparing an ibuprofen with an antibiotic.

Plus, every patient is different. Pain medication can be very safe but must be taken as prescribed and one should work closely not just with their doctor but their pharmacist AND hopefully have family support. Chronic pain is difficult enough to deal with and if one does not have the support of their family due to ignorance of the medications and stigma attached it adds to the pain of a CPP.

Luckily, my family is behind me 100%. I am the only CPP in our family. My brother survived stage 4 cancer and doesnt even need pain meds! Of course he did before, during and after surgery.

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