The TRUTH about Church of the First Born

Posted in the Clinton Forum

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“Alpha Omega”

Since: Dec 09

United States

#1 Feb 14, 2010
ApostasyWatch new website:
http://www.apostasywatch.com/

The Truth about Church of the First Born!

Where do we start? The "markings", or the "markings unto death"? Separating families, friends and loved ones?

Or being told you've lost your promise of eternal salvation?

Or perhaps the fear, intimidation and mind control used by the COFB to keep people in fear of leaving this cult?

If you've had your faith shipwrecked by the COFB, or feel you've given up on GOD, get out your bible and start reading the Word all over again....this time without the COFB spin doctoring.

The Bible says you have no need that any man teach you, but the Holy Spirit will teach you and lead and guide you unto all truth.

Apostasy Watch has many good audios, and articles. Also, there is an online fellowship twice a week LIVE ON PALTALK for folks who've come out of the apostate churches,(like COFB). Join us.
Curious

Denton, TX

#2 Mar 14, 2010
I am following up a line of research in a case where people may have been harmed. I am interested to know more about what you know about the Church of the First Born or the Vineyard Church. Areas I am interested in learning more about with respect to these is OKC COFB and Muskogee (area) Vineyard. Anything you could tell me would be appreciated, thanks.StormyStaradvocate@gmai l.com
Cofbequalscult

Elk City, OK

#3 Oct 3, 2011
I've seen first hand what this church is all about. I've seen it destroy families and peoples faith. I've seen it hurt children by denying them medical treatment, leaving one young girl infertile from what would have been a simple fix to fight infection. Making one little boy lose the use is elbow for the "elders" not seeking out medical advise and setting his broken arm wrong. I've attended many services (at several different COFB locations) and seen how conflicting each one is. They expect each of their members to love the CHURCH more then God, their families or themselves. If anything is put before the church you will be denied access to the services. You will be told to leave. If you are married and your spouse cheats, leading in a devorce, you are not allowed to remarry. At Rocky they only marry within the church leading to cousins getting marries. At worst I've seen 1st cousins marry. I have nothing possitive to say about this "Church".

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#4 Oct 5, 2011
Yeah you guys are real tough, using fake names and everything when you trash someone's religion. Hahah, I atleast got a good laugh out of these ridiculous lies. It's kinda pathetic that you have nothing better to do than start ridiculous rumors about something completely off the wall.. But thanks for the laugh (:

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#5 Oct 6, 2011
Constantia wrote:
ApostasyWatch new website:
http://www.apostasywatch.com/
The Truth about Church of the First Born!
Where do we start? The "markings", or the "markings unto death"? Separating families, friends and loved ones?
Or being told you've lost your promise of eternal salvation?
Or perhaps the fear, intimidation and mind control used by the COFB to keep people in fear of leaving this cult?
If you've had your faith shipwrecked by the COFB, or feel you've given up on GOD, get out your bible and start reading the Word all over again....this time without the COFB spin doctoring.
The Bible says you have no need that any man teach you, but the Holy Spirit will teach you and lead and guide you unto all truth.
Apostasy Watch has many good audios, and articles. Also, there is an online fellowship twice a week LIVE ON PALTALK for folks who've come out of the apostate churches,(like COFB). Join us.
Do you even know anything you talk about? Or do you always lie about random things to try and sound smart?
TruthaboutCOFB

Elk City, OK

#6 Oct 6, 2011
Actually I completely agree with what he said! I've seen what this church does first hand. I've witnessed the hatred this church has for anyone that does not belong to it. I've seen families disown their children who attend a different church. I've seen a woman kicked out for remarrying after being divorced, because her ex husband cheated and beat her! But her finding love again was unacceptable. I HAVE seen all these things take place. I made friends with a few select members, even these members that were raised their entire life in this church do not agree with most of what it is about. But these people choose to stay within the church in fear of not having their families anymore. You can sit and preach about how wonderful your church life is but take a step outside and realize what is really going on..

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#7 Oct 9, 2011
TruthaboutCOFB wrote:
Actually I completely agree with what he said! I've seen what this church does first hand. I've witnessed the hatred this church has for anyone that does not belong to it. I've seen families disown their children who attend a different church. I've seen a woman kicked out for remarrying after being divorced, because her ex husband cheated and beat her! But her finding love again was unacceptable. I HAVE seen all these things take place. I made friends with a few select members, even these members that were raised their entire life in this church do not agree with most of what it is about. But these people choose to stay within the church in fear of not having their families anymore. You can sit and preach about how wonderful your church life is but take a step outside and realize what is really going on..
There seems to be a huge amount of legalism going on in the COFB churches, not to mention fear and peer pressure to "have faith for healing" whether they actually have it or not. Too many deaths,too many spiritually abusive practices. Where is the love of Christ in all this legalism?

For those who are still staying in the COFB for fear of loosing their families, I would ask, who do you love more, Christ and the TRUTH, or your families? Jesus said those that love mother, father, sister or brother, son or daughter more than Him were not worthy of Him. You must make that choice no matter what the cost.
Macy

Omaha, NE

#8 Oct 9, 2011
I think that if you aren't a part of the teachings going on you should mind your own business. I have a friend who is a member of the COFB and she does not hate me or belittle me in any way. I personally am not a member but I feel if you have concerns about the church you should leave it in the hands of the authorities and go on about your business. Many people might not agree with the Baptist or Methodist religion either but you don't see them posting on a meaningless forum that's not gonna get them anywhere..

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#9 Oct 9, 2011
Macy wrote:
I think that if you aren't a part of the teachings going on you should mind your own business. I have a friend who is a member of the COFB and she does not hate me or belittle me in any way. I personally am not a member but I feel if you have concerns about the church you should leave it in the hands of the authorities and go on about your business. Many people might not agree with the Baptist or Methodist religion either but you don't see them posting on a meaningless forum that's not gonna get them anywhere..
Baptist and Methodists don't allow their babies and small children to die without medical care. If that's OK with you so be it, but this is a public forum and people can speak out of this practice without your permission.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#10 Oct 9, 2011
I have lots of family that dont go to the church, and I don't hate any of them. I still love them like family. I treat them just like I do any other person. I have lots of friends that aren't from my church, and I treat them no differently. I have complete confidence that whether I go to a doctor or not is completely my decision. The church, nor my parents tell me they will shun me or anything ridiculous for going to a doctor. Having faith is something I read in my bible. I believe if god made me, he has all power to heal me from anything he wants if that would be according to his will.

If someone chooses to put their faith in god rather than man, that's not affecting you, so maybe you should just pray for them instead of saying untruthful things about them on a pointless post. We aren't told we can't attend church or see our families or any of that nonsense if we don't do everything right. Nobody Is perfect, and if they were, we wouldn't need church. If we thought you had to be perfect to attend service, none of us would be there.. so I will pray for those of you spreading those untruthful things.. God tells me to have charity for all people. Sometimes I fail at that, because like you, I'm human. But I am sorry that seeing someone try in a way they believe is acceptable to god, to serve him, offends you. You are welcome to attend church to see for yourself instead of taking your friends word for things they don't understand completely. You'll see that sure, there are things that certain HUMANS do in our church, that may not be 100% right, as in any other church, but I'm sure you will find there are also those who are very good people and have lots of love, hospitality, and care for others. Don't judge an entire church off of a couple people. There is good and bad no matter where you go, but gods way is prefect. The people aren't, but god told us exactly how to live our lives and gave us a perfect plan to follow. It's called the bible.

You people seem to be stuck on any bad thing you see in the church, and you're overlooking the so many good things. Im only 17 and I've seen so many miracles in my life. It's not something I just hear about or read about, I've seen it with my own eyes. I've seen people healed of cancer, I've seen the deaf healed completely. These are things you read about in the bible. This is why I believe god has all power to heal me. Its not something I'm just told. I can see it for myself. it's not some crazy cult telling me what to do, it's me seeing time after time my entire life, where gods faithful servants prayed and people were healed, miracles happened, and Its been a blessing and encouragement to me every since. Maybe those things could have been healed by a medicine, but then I would have been cheated out of the blessing of being able to see, god did that for me because he can and he loves his people.(:

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#11 Oct 9, 2011
It's not just me, and it's not just one or two instances of these innocent baby deaths. Babies that had no say in the matter and no one to speak out for them.

As one former COFB child, now an adult said, "How would you feel if you were laying in a fetal position in agonizing pain with an inflamed appendix and all your parents did was pray?" She didn't die, but was turned off Christ because of her childhood in the COFB.

The stories go on and on and the bodies continue to pile up. Read the ReligionNewsBlog and see for yourself.

If you are 17 and old enough to choose to get medical help, then that's a plus (for you). If you've never had a painful life threatening disease, then you are very healthy and fortunate. Not all these little babies and kids are so fortunate.

Can you imagine suffering as so many of them have?

Think past your religion to how they must have felt, as they drew near to death, and no one helped them,not even the ones that were responsible to care for all their needs. Who's fault was it? Certainly not Jesus, nor can I or will I ever believe it was His will, no matter what doctrine has been invented as an excuse to cover up for mans own failures to obtain healing through prayer. And by the way, I have had many many personal healings, so it's not like I am an unbeliever.

Think about it.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#12 Oct 9, 2011
http://www.firstborn.info/about_us.htm

BUT … IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO TAKE YOUR CHILD TO A DOCTOR … THEN … WE URGE YOU … TO IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY :…'' THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT '' AND THE …'' STATE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES ''… USING OUR CORPORATE FORMS …'' CALL & MAIL ''… AS PROVIDED IN THE CHURCH BY-LAWS … SO YOU CAN OBEY THE LAW OF OUR LAND … WHICH GOD REQUIRES …

THE GOVERNMENT LAWS … ARE THERE TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL … AVOID EPIDEMICS THAT COULD EFFECT THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF OTHERS … THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE THE CHILD … AND MINISTER MEDICAL AID … SO WE ARE TO RESPECT THE GOVERNMENT RIGHTS … AND …'' IN NO WAY DO WE RECOMMEND … THAT ANY OF OUR PEOPLE … TRY TO DEFY THOSE LAWS …''

WE REFUSE TO DEBATE THE LAW … WITH OUR OWN PEOPLE … OR … THE REST OF THE WORLD … WE WANT TO SIMPLY OBEY …

CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN
NOTIFICATION
CALL … & … MAIL
THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT

PHONE #_________ PERSON __________
THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES
PHONE #_________ PERSON __________
WE THE UNDERSIGNED DESIRE TO COMPLY WITH THE LAWS OF THE LAND … THEREFORE :
WE HAVE A CHILD THAT IS SICK …
NAME __________ AGE _________
WE HAVE CALLED FOR THE ELDERS TO PRAY FOR THE CHILD … WHICH IS OUR BELIEF … JAMES 5 - 14 …
BUT WE ALSO RESPECT THE LAWS OF OUR LAND… SO YOU ARE WELCOME TO COME AND EXAMINE THE CHILD AT ANY TIME …
DATE :_________ TIME :_________
NAME OF THE PARENTS :
__________
__________
ADDRESS __________

PHONE __________




~~~~~~~~~~
PAGE 3

CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN
AT:

WEATHERFORD OKLAHOMA

EAST SIDE OF THE AIRPORT
ON WESTGATE STREET

Since: Oct 11

Oklahoma City, OK

#13 Oct 10, 2011
I'm saddened to see the negative post about the church. Out of ignorance, meaning not knowing or understanding, are these posts made. First, it makes it sound like these posts apply to all COFB. Though some things may be true about an individual, or family or even 1 assembly, it should not be implied that it is a true representation of the church in general. For example, the churches at Hobart, Rocky, Clinton and Weatherford all have variations in beliefs. Rocky does not accept any other COFB assembly as part of them. As far as i know, they do have a strong belief in rejection that the others do not. But still some wonderful people there that I am not trying to put down or hurt. But even Clinton, Weatherford and Hobart assemblies vary. I wish people would attend services at each and not make blanket statements or accusations. The church is not a cult, we do not brain wash members, any are free to leave if they wish, though many believe in trusting in God for healings, any are free to seek medical help if they desire or lack faith. I know persecutions will come when people try to serve god, but it never fails to make me sad.May God bless even our enemies.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#14 Oct 10, 2011
Kerusso_1 wrote:
It's not just me, and it's not just one or two instances of these innocent baby deaths. Babies that had no say in the matter and no one to speak out for them.

As one former COFB child, now an adult said, "How would you feel if you were laying in a fetal position in agonizing pain with an inflamed appendix and all your parents did was pray?" She didn't die, but was turned off Christ because of her childhood in the COFB.

The stories go on and on and the bodies continue to pile up. Read the ReligionNewsBlog and see for yourself.

If you are 17 and old enough to choose to get medical help, then that's a plus (for you). If you've never had a painful life threatening disease, then you are very healthy and fortunate. Not all these little babies and kids are so fortunate.

Can you imagine suffering as so many of them have?

Think past your religion to how they must have felt, as they drew near to death, and no one helped them,not even the ones that were responsible to care for all their needs. Who's fault was it? Certainly not Jesus, nor can I or will I ever believe it was His will, no matter what doctrine has been invented as an excuse to cover up for mans own failures to obtain healing through prayer. And by the way, I have had many many personal healings, so it's not like I am an unbeliever.

Think about it.
Actually I was born with a collapsed lung and I stopped breathing a couple times. A faithful man in our church came and prayed for me and I was immediately healed.

Sure people in our church die, because if you havent noticed, that's a part of the life process. I think god is smart enough to decide when we need to live and when we don't. He is the reason we are here in the first place. yes, it's sad to lose a loved one, but I sure hope I dont live one day longer than what god has planned for me. I think he will take me right when it's according to his plan.

If you wanna talk about innocent people dying, we can talk about how perfect doctors are and how many people die each year in hospitals because of careless mistakes that MEN make. And I'm not saying doctors are bad, but they are human. Humans make mistakes. God doesn't. I'd rather someone who doesn't make mistakes, fix my body personally (:

I've had a loved one who chose to live by faith throughout their battle with cancer and eventually this person was taken to the hospital by a loved one. She was getting so much better too, but the doctors told her something was wrong, so they pumped fluids into her, accidentally filling her lungs with fluids. I'm sad to say she didn't make it outif the hospital, leaving her small children motherless. So, no thank you. I'd rather trust in god than put my life in the hands of a human being.

I am close to a former nurse who has told me of mistakes the doctor she worked for made and then completely covered up to the patients. For example, accidentally sewing up a tool in the persons body during surgery, causing a bigger problem than the original problem. Then this patient was told a complete lie of what was wrong, to cover up the mistake, and was charged A huge amount of money for a second surgery.

I don't dislike doctors, I think what they do is for a good cause most of the time, I just trust god more than I trust them. I don't have kids, but I can only imagine, if I trust god with my body, why wouldn't I with my child? it only makes sense. It's out of love. We feel it's the best method of healing. We don't base it off of neglect or hatred. we choose to have faith. Thank god we live in a free country and we are allowed to have faith (:
Curious

Elk City, OK

#15 Oct 19, 2011
Kassidy,
Since you seem to be a faithful member of the church and share your views or ways of your religion I imagine you are the person I specifically need to address this question to. In your church do they favor that members marry members among the church? And if so have you witnessed people marrying within their family? Please take this question serious because it is and I am simply looking for an answer/ explanation for this act.
Rejected

Germany

#17 Oct 21, 2011
To Curious:

I believe as a former 25 year Rocky COTF member that I am qualified to answer this inquiry for you.

It is true for the COTF at Rocky, Ok. It is church policy that members can only marry fellow members who have been baptized and initiated there; anyone who does not follow this policy is "withdrawn from" (excommunicated) by the church elders. Previous baptisms by other churches are not recognized, even by fellow COTF churches in the immediate area.

As the majority of the church there is related to each other this results is considerable in-breeding. As close as second cousins is common-place.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#18 Oct 21, 2011
Curious wrote:
Kassidy,
Since you seem to be a faithful member of the church and share your views or ways of your religion I imagine you are the person I specifically need to address this question to. In your church do they favor that members marry members among the church? And if so have you witnessed people marrying within their family? Please take this question serious because it is and I am simply looking for an answer/ explanation for this act.
Well, being that I'm only a 17 year old girl.. I hate to answer your questions for the entire church because not everybody in the church agrees on every little matter. Everyone has certain opinions that are different. You are welcome to attent a service and I'm sure any of the ministers would gladly answer your questions.

Idk how everyone feels about it, but i personally believe, no matter what religion you are, life would be so much easier if you marry someone with the same beliefs as you. God told us all in the bible not to be unequally yoked with a nonbeliever..
Just imagine being married to someone and trying to raise kids if you didn't agree on weather to live by faith or take the child into mans hands..

The church won't shun someone or treat them bad if they marry outside the church, but it just looks like a lot of people marry in the church because people tend to marry people they could peacefully live with and agree on major things..

And no, I don't know of anyone in the church who married their relatives..
I can't speak for rocky though if that's what you are talking about.. I've never been there so I can't say if those rumors are true or not.. Either way, I guess they can marry who they want. Not my business..

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#19 Oct 22, 2011
Kassidy,

I am glad to hear your church does not excommunicate for marrying outside the church.

I was withdrawn from for doing just that; marrying a deacon's son from another church. I asked the chief elder about the church doctrine (no marriages outside the church) before our wedding and was told that they did not know "what spirit" my fiance had been baptized under (as far as I know, God only has one Spirit!) and they would therefore not accept his baptism and that he would have to be re-baptized by a minister from our church.

I would never ask someone to "re-do" their baptism, as for me it was a very special event and a once-in-a-lifetime occasion.

I was withdrawn from within 2 months of the news of my marriage.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#20 Oct 22, 2011
Rejected wrote:
Kassidy,

I am glad to hear your church does not excommunicate for marrying outside the church.

I was withdrawn from for doing just that; marrying a deacon's son from another church. I asked the chief elder about the church doctrine (no marriages outside the church) before our wedding and was told that they did not know "what spirit" my fiance had been baptized under (as far as I know, God only has one Spirit!) and they would therefore not accept his baptism and that he would have to be re-baptized by a minister from our church.

I would never ask someone to "re-do" their baptism, as for me it was a very special event and a once-in-a-lifetime occasion.

I was withdrawn from within 2 months of the news of my marriage.
Well that is very sad. Where do you go to church now? You are welcome to come to Clinton (: To me, getting rebaptized would be like saying you didn't receive gods spirit the first time. That sounds like it has a little too much in common with the one unforgivable sin(blasphemy) so.. That doesn't make sense to me, but I don't think they are really the same church as the other church of the firstborns.. I'm not sure.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#21 Oct 22, 2011
Thank you Kassidy for the invitation, perhaps when I am back in that area I will come by.:)

I have attended services at a variety of different churches as I am currently majoring in religion. I want to find the truth for myself. So far I haven't settled on a new one.

I agree, they are rather reclusive and do not welcome outside influences. I was born and raised there, so it took a while to realize that the things they teach are inconsistent with the Word. I'm not saying they aren't good people,-I love them all still; I just do not think they understand the covenant of grace versus the covenant of the law.

I've never attended another COTF, hopefully your assembly (from the sound of it) is a completely different church. The sect at Rocky has damaged many a family and harmed too many other's faith, it is truly sad.

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