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Chapel Hill, NC

Jun 26, 2008

They shoot gays, don't they?

Even before last winter, Lawrence "Larry" King, an eighth grader at E.O. Green Junior High in Oxnard, Calif., had it rough. His classmates in the school, north of Los Angeles in Ventura County, routinely picked on him. "Hey you gay kid, you want to wear lipstick?" one of King's friends recalled of the taunting. Another classmate told the Los Angeles Times, "You'd hear, 'Faggot! Hey faggot!' That was happening in every class."

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“Reality is better than truth”

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Indianapolis
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#1
Jun 26, 2008
 

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The writer sees to think tha the only topic of discussion is the CA ruling, and it is not. It is a MAJOR milestone in our legal history, though, and as such we SHOULD celebrate it. There is no rason to work for advancement if all we focus on is the negative. There will ALWAYS be homophobes and bigots; I'm just waiting for the first violent assault on gays when they get married. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be elated at the turn of the tide.

Despite what people think in general about hate crime laws, they do serve a purpose--to force courts to take such attacks seriously. The one killer got less than three years for killing a gay man--burglars get stiffer punishment than that.

“Homosapian ”

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Minneapolis
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#2
Jun 26, 2008
 

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Hate crimes are an act of terrorism as they are aimed at a group as well as the individual victim.
Shane
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#3
Jun 26, 2008
 

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EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".
Queers Rot in HELL
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#4
Jun 26, 2008
 

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Shane wrote:
EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".
"Hate Crime" is just another term the gays use so they may get special treatment in society.

Oh the mean man called me a fag - oh charge the mean man with a hate crime - oh waahh wahhh waah

I'm a sensitive gay person oh waahh waahh wahhh

GO TO HELL you STINKING QUEERS!!!!!!
Monica
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#5
Jun 26, 2008
 

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I think it's a shame that a human must die at the hands of another because of the life they choose. Do we kill smokers, alchoholics,drug addicts,child abusers or obese people? NO! You don't hear of gay citizens commiting any horrible crimes.
Shane
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#6
Jun 26, 2008
 

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Queers Rot in HELL wrote:
<quoted text>
"Hate Crime" is just another term the gays use so they may get special treatment in society.
I hate to be the one to burst the bubble you apparently live in but there are very few states in this country where hate crimes laws actually include LGBT parsons and on the federal level there are NONE. Try your logic again moron.
Shane
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#7
Jun 26, 2008
 

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Monica wrote:
I think it's a shame that a human must die at the hands of another because of the life they choose. Do we kill smokers, alchoholics,drug addicts,child abusers or obese people? NO! You don't hear of gay citizens commiting any horrible crimes.
Slippery slope logic. There are plenty of LGBT persons who have and will continue to comit crimes. We are no different on this fron than the straight majority is here, no better, no worse.

“boycott bigotry”

Joined: Aug 8, 2007
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Jacksonville (aka SoNY)
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#8
Jun 26, 2008
 
Shane wrote:
EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".
Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

You can try to downplay "motivation" all you want but you're not fooling anyone.

“boycott bigotry”

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Jacksonville (aka SoNY)
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#9
Jun 26, 2008
 

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Queers Rot in HELL wrote:
<quoted text>
"Hate Crime" is just another term the gays use so they may get special treatment in society.
Oh the mean man called me a fag - oh charge the mean man with a hate crime - oh waahh wahhh waah
I'm a sensitive gay person oh waahh waahh wahhh
GO TO HELL you STINKING QUEERS!!!!!!
May I ask you a question? Have you ever been man enough to say this to another man's face when it's just you w/no friends and no bats? I, for one, would love to meet you in real time and have you try to say this crap to my face.

“I will not go quietly.”

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Indianapolis Indiana
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#10
Jun 26, 2008
 

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McMike wrote:
<quoted text>
May I ask you a question? Have you ever been man enough to say this to another man's face when it's just you w/no friends and no bats? I, for one, would love to meet you in real time and have you try to say this crap to my face.
Of course he hasn't. That's why he hides behind proxies, because he doesn't have the guts to stand up to someone's face and say his crap.

“Equality and nothing less”

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Oklahoma City
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#11
Jun 26, 2008
 
Shane wrote:
EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".
While you're correct that murder is murder, there are some basic distinctions. Somebody decided to rob somebody. In the act, they end up killing someone. Yes, it's murder, but it's not pre-meditated. Now, say, someone gets upset with an individual. They plan the murder. The murder usually happens within a short time of when the person got mad. That's pre-meditated. With a hate crime murder, it's usually thought about for months or even years, with planning that is made for a long period of time. There has usually been taunting and some sort of abuse prior to the murder happening, but not necessarily to the murder victim themselves. There is generally no relationship to the victim and no motive other than targeting a member of a specific group. Unlike the other murders, the murderer has had a huge amount of time to think through his actions. And, by having stricter punishments for hate crimes that are short of murder, there is a bigger chance the murders themselves can be prevented.
kooky
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#12
Jun 26, 2008
 
Shane wrote:
EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".
While in principle, I agree with the statement "murder is murder, no matter the reason behind committing it", there is some logic to establishing certain crimes as hate crimes. As stated in a previous post, a man who murdered a gay person served a total of three years, when someone convited of a lesser crime, say drug possession, could possibly get ten years. Establishing crimes as hate crimes brings to the forefront the seriousness of certain crimes that may have been treated as less serious in the past. I for one agree that if you murder someone, you've done it out of hate, but all crimes are not treated equally in the court systems.
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Jun 26, 2008
 

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kooky wrote:
<quoted text> While in principle, I agree with the statement "murder is murder, no matter the reason behind committing it", there is some logic to establishing certain crimes as hate crimes. As stated in a previous post, a man who murdered a gay person served a total of three years, when someone convited of a lesser crime, say drug possession, could possibly get ten years. Establishing crimes as hate crimes brings to the forefront the seriousness of certain crimes that may have been treated as less serious in the past. I for one agree that if you murder someone, you've done it out of hate, but all crimes are not treated equally in the court systems.
But why does the murder of a gay/black/jewish man warrant special treatment than the exact same murder scenario of a white man? My point is that there shoudl be one set of rules for all crimes and not one for if it's comitted against a certain set of individuals.

“Liberty and Justice for All”

Joined: Feb 2, 2008
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#14
Jun 26, 2008
 

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Shane wrote:
EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".
What you fail to understand is that so called "hate crime" laws are merely injunctions to law enforcement and the courts to stop ignoring or dismissing assaults on LGBT people.

I have known a number of LGBT people who reported assaults--sometimes complete with the names and addresses of their attackers, and their complaints were completely ignored because of prejudiced police.

I was walking down the street in Lexington, Kentucky once with a friend... not holding hands or anything, just two ordinary looking people walking side by side, when a carload of teenagers sped past, yelled "hey faggots," and threw a glass beer bottle which missed my friend's head by only an inch or so before shattering against a storefront. That's a hate crime. There is nothing else to call it.

How would you like it if you were beaten-up by a gang of kids, and when you reported the assault to the cops, they looked at you funny, made assumptions about you, and as a result, simply refused to follow-up with an investigation? you don't have to be gay for the cops or a street gang to think you are, you know.

That's why these laws are necessary.

But as long as most places don't have them, I hope when the kids yell faggot and throw the beer bottles at your head, they have better aim. Good luck getting justice.
Shane
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Jun 26, 2008
 

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ScottyMatic wrote:
<quoted text>
What you fail to understand is that so called "hate crime" laws are merely injunctions to law enforcement and the courts to stop ignoring or dismissing assaults on LGBT people.
I have known a number of LGBT people who reported assaults--sometimes complete with the names and addresses of their attackers, and their complaints were completely ignored because of prejudiced police.
I was walking down the street in Lexington, Kentucky once with a friend... not holding hands or anything, just two ordinary looking people walking side by side, when a carload of teenagers sped past, yelled "hey faggots," and threw a glass beer bottle which missed my friend's head by only an inch or so before shattering against a storefront. That's a hate crime. There is nothing else to call it.
How would you like it if you were beaten-up by a gang of kids, and when you reported the assault to the cops, they looked at you funny, made assumptions about you, and as a result, simply refused to follow-up with an investigation? you don't have to be gay for the cops or a street gang to think you are, you know.
That's why these laws are necessary.
But as long as most places don't have them, I hope when the kids yell faggot and throw the beer bottles at your head, they have better aim. Good luck getting justice.
Why is it when someone expresses their opinion about hate crimes laws and they dont' favor the side of those seeking to have "special" treatment of these types of crimes it is assumed that they are homophobic, anti-gay, or something of the like? I happen to be an out and proud lesbain who is against the notion that WE LGTB deserve ANY special treatment includeing hate crimes laws. A crime is a crime and all crimes shoudl be treated the same. I am aware that certain areas drop the ball in the prosecution of crimes when it involves LGBT, black, hispanic, etc victims and I do see this as a problem that needs to be fixed. however, I don't think creating new laws is the way to do that. why don't we start with enforcing existing laws and see where it gets us as a society first?

As to this little comment "I hope when the kids yell faggot and throw the beer bottles at your head, they have better aim. Good luck getting justice." - I've been there and done that many times over but apparently managed to move on withmy life far more than you did. Take your bitch queen attitude elsewhere.

“Reality is better than truth”

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#16
Jun 26, 2008
 

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No, most crimes are crimes of passion against a specific individual concerning their actions, or more likely, for profit.

Hate crime laws are necessary, and this story says why. Not because the kid was beaten but that the court obviously didn't take the death of a gay man seriously. THREE YEARS for killing another person? Please. You can get worse than that for aggravated battery. The hate crime statutes are supposed to ensure that crimes are given proper gravitas.
Shane wrote:
EVERY crime is a "hate crime" in one way or another. When did we as a society decide it was important to punish people who comit crimes against others based on race/religion/sexuality/sex/et c more severely than those comitted against someone who does not fall into these categories? Is a white male murdering a minority realy any different than murdering another white male? Murder is murder reguardless of what it's motivating factors are. I think it's about time that society level the playing field and begin treating ALL crimes as harshly as they currently do those labeled as "hate crimes".

“Reality is better than truth”

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#17
Jun 26, 2008
 
Actually, you are a moronic straight boy with too much time on your hands.

Hate crime laws are not restricted to gays; in fact, gays aren't even covered in some areas that have such laws. And they all have specific language that disallows the use of the the laws in the case of free speech.

If there is a hell, then your post is a one-way ticket there.
Queers Rot in HELL wrote:
<quoted text>
"Hate Crime" is just another term the gays use so they may get special treatment in society.
Oh the mean man called me a fag - oh charge the mean man with a hate crime - oh waahh wahhh waah
I'm a sensitive gay person oh waahh waahh wahhh
GO TO HELL you STINKING QUEERS!!!!!!

“Reality is better than truth”

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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Indianapolis
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#18
Jun 26, 2008
 
I agree with the sentiment but gays do not choose to be gay.
Monica wrote:
I think it's a shame that a human must die at the hands of another because of the life they choose. Do we kill smokers, alchoholics,drug addicts,child abusers or obese people? NO! You don't hear of gay citizens commiting any horrible crimes.

“Reality is better than truth”

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Indianapolis
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#19
Jun 26, 2008
 

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If a person is targeted for a crime BECAUSE they are white, then that too is a hate crime under the law.
Shane wrote:
<quoted text>
But why does the murder of a gay/black/jewish man warrant special treatment than the exact same murder scenario of a white man? My point is that there shoudl be one set of rules for all crimes and not one for if it's comitted against a certain set of individuals.

“I will not go quietly.”

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Indianapolis Indiana
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#20
Jun 26, 2008
 
Shane wrote:
<quoted text>
But why does the murder of a gay/black/jewish man warrant special treatment than the exact same murder scenario of a white man? My point is that there shoudl be one set of rules for all crimes and not one for if it's comitted against a certain set of individuals.
When those same set of circumstances apply to everyone equally, you would be right. As it stands they do not. It is a proven fact that minorities, be they race, religion, sexual orientation or perceived orientation experience violent attacks for no other reason than the aspect of themselves that places them within a minority. Try checking the Federal statistics(which are very underreported)on the subject.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
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