Eyewitnesses to last year's Black Friday wanted

I'm making a documentary on last year's Black Friday incident, and would love to hear from/meet anybody that was there.
Please let me know through these boards if you can help.
Thanks.

Steve, I see you are located in England? Have you ever been to the Valley Stream Walmart? It's not exactly quiet, tranquil suburbia.... The movie theatre in the same complex as the mall (Green Acres) it's in was the first theatre in the country to get metal-detectors installed; the mall has the highest rate of car theft. The section of Valley Stream that is directly behind the mall was formerly known as "The Green Acres Community"; they changed the name to "Mill Brook" so that the value of their houses didn't go down.. also.. many of the 'long time' residents of Valley Stream will not even go to the mall there... This is a complex sociological situation.. not just a simple 'greed trampling'.

Townie wrote:

Steve, I see you are located in England? Have you ever been to the Valley Stream Walmart? It's not exactly quiet, tranquil suburbia.... The movie theatre in the same complex as the mall (Green Acres) it's in was the first theatre in the country to get metal-detectors installed; the mall has the highest rate of car theft. The section of Valley Stream that is directly behind the mall was formerly known as "The Green Acres Community"; they changed the name to "Mill Brook" so that the value of their houses didn't go down.. also.. many of the 'long time' residents of Valley Stream will not even go to the mall there... This is a complex sociological situation.. not just a simple 'greed trampling'.

Thanks for the reply.
I haven't been to Valley Stream, but I have looked into the area and the various issues, and I agree it is a complex situation, an 'entirely avoidable incident' that says a great deal about our society. I'm trying to look at questions of both who was responsible, and what. Not just pointing a finger at the shoppers, Wal-Mart or the Police, but trying to understand how that crowd of people could get so carried away they trampled somebody to death.
That's why I'd like to meet anybody that was actually there last year.
Hopefully someone will read this board!

Well that's just it... The particular society 'in that area' is what's wrong... Ask yourself, why hadn't this happened at any other Walmart's, or other stores? I'll just outright tell you that the people that go to that mall & Walmart are not reflective of all society here -- Without you knowing the history and ruining of the surrounding areas.. It's like me trying to do a documentary on "Firms" & Football Riots in the UK.. There is a certain sub-culture of people that trampled that guy to death.. That same sub-culture is destroying the whole area..

It bothers me, but I must agree with Scott and Townie. Steve, if you honestly investigate the situation you will come that same conclusion. I'm not saying that Walmart couldn't have handled the crowd control aspect better, but the "clientele" of that particular store leaves something to be desired. As Scott pointed out, this incident only
happened at this one location - why?

Thanks for your comments.
I'm hoping to make a film that shows all sides of the story, and that doesn't pass judgement but leaves the viewer able to make up their own mind.
From what I gather, it seems the Green Acres Wal-Mart was not the only place where such incidents have taken place. Various Wal-Marts in other states have had shoppers' stampedes, and other big stores as well. Nor is it just in America - here in the UK, many more, around five thousand people, turned up at 5 am for an IKEA sale. Nobody was killed, but several were badly injured.In Jeddah, five thousand shoppers stampeded into another IKEA sale, killing four and injuring many more. And so on.
So I'm not pointing a finger, either at Valley Stream or Wal-Mart, but asking a simple question: what can possibly make people behave in this way? Part of that would involve looking at the effects 'big box retailers' have upon a community.
I'd really like to meet anybody that went to last year's Black Friday sales, or who grew up in Valley Stream when the mall was first built - when it was a lively, sociable place that somehow had more character.
Please let me know if you can help with either of these?

I'm also Townie :) Steve, if you go to that Walmart on any evening or weekend, you will see.. Anyone you meet that grew up in Valley Stream and has seen the town change - you would probably get a sense that they are racist or something like that.. Some are, and some just tell it like it is..- The people that go to that mall & Walmart don't usually have any type of shops and stores in their neighborhoods anyway.. except for corner bodegas and liquor stores.. and it's not a matter of race... it's culture.. I would suggest you start with the valley Stream Village Hall, and ask them about the VS historical society, senior citicen groups.. and talk to them about how the town has changed. other than that you could try taking out an AD in Newsday (a newspaper on Long Island).. Because if you ask me.. I'll just tell you that 90% of those people are just a bunch of low-life riff-raff.. I've met some that are decent, so I cant curse them all you know.. When you mentioned the tramplings at IKEA over there, I kind of get the feeling that to the people there, it was fun, games, and excitement, and they didn't actually realize what was happening.. With the people here im sure most of them did not realize what was happening either (remember, they actually BUSTED the door down here).. However, the attitude here as it always is, was "outta my way mother F****r".

SteveHai wrote:

Thanks for your comments.
I'm hoping to make a film that shows all sides of the story, and that doesn't pass judgement but leaves the viewer able to make up their own mind.
From what I gather, it seems the Green Acres Wal-Mart was not the only place where such incidents have taken place. Various Wal-Marts in other states have had shoppers' stampedes, and other big stores as well. Nor is it just in America - here in the UK, many more, around five thousand people, turned up at 5 am for an IKEA sale. Nobody was killed, but several were badly injured.In Jeddah, five thousand shoppers stampeded into another IKEA sale, killing four and injuring many more. And so on.
So I'm not pointing a finger, either at Valley Stream or Wal-Mart, but asking a simple question: what can possibly make people behave in this way? Part of that would involve looking at the effects 'big box retailers' have upon a community.
I'd really like to meet anybody that went to last year's Black Friday sales, or who grew up in Valley Stream when the mall was first built - when it was a lively, sociable place that somehow had more character.
Please let me know if you can help with either of these?

Hi Steve, you're obviously an intelligent thoughtful guy. Yes, this type of incident has happened all over the world. But the reason why it happened at this particular place is due mainly (though admittedly, not exclusively) to the clientele.

I worked at the mall as a teen and young adult and can attest that it once was a clean, safe and friendly place to shop. Sadly, that is no longer the truth. My friend's wife was sexually assualted by a group of young men there last year, at 3 o'clock in the afternoon! Most decent people, regrdless of ethnicity, find it easier to simply avoid the place, which is now filthy, noisy, and down right dangerous.

If you go there to film do yourself a favor - don't go at night, and don't go alone!

Thanks for your replies.
I hear where you're coming from, and I must admit stampeding into a Wal-Mart at 5am is not my thing either.

But I'm still unable to explain what could have driven these people to behave in such a way. The crowd seems more than unruly - hysterical. Over two thousand people!
Why do you think that was? I'd be interested to hear your views.

Well, I think part of it is a mob mentality. People cease to act like rational individuals, and act in a mindless way, fixated only on one thing, in this case finding whatever it is drew them there. This is NOT an ethnic thing, it's a human thing. Part of it is simple greed, trying to get a bargain (on what is mainly cheap crap!) But one other thing - I believe that this whole Black Friday thing has taken on a competetive edge where people try to beat the other person to get their purchases, it's akin to the way some people drive.
I think they feel like they're winning at something.
Also factor in the boredom and restlessness of standing in line all night, and then having all that restless energy unleashed when the doors open! And to be honest, remember that you're dealing witha clientele that doesn't have a lot of experience in getting along with their fellow human beings in a polite, restrained manner.
Take all these factors, mix with a little alcohol, shake well, and POW! There you go!
Like you Steve, I will be far away from Wal-Mart (or any store for that matter) on Nov 27th. Good Luck with the project, it really does sound very interesting!

It's the Ghetto mentality, ghetto attitude... plain and simple... they were probably having some frigging fun "breaking down" the doors.. and it WAS an ETHNIC thing... Don't listen to these wishful people who make false statements with their politically correct lies.. or blindness..

If you were walking down a london street and an arab comes running over with a strap-on bomb, yelling allah akbar or somehting like that... Do you say... "Wow,'people' can be very violent"? Or do you say "God Damned 'Arab' Terrorists!"? It is what it is...

Steve, go to the Walmart in East Meadow, NY about 20 mins from Valley Stream. Then go to one somewhere else in the area.. THEN go to the one in Valley Stream.. go on a Saturday afternoon.. Judge for your self..

I hear what you are saying, Scott, and it's true that when I look at newsreel footage I do see wall-to-wall black and latino faces.
But I don't know, I can't believe that one race or community is any worse or any better than any other - that any group of people is more workshy, more aggressive than any others. It just doesn't feel right to say that - and if they do seem to be so, it's my job to try to explain why that is, what are the mitigating circumstances that lie behind the incident and look at things from all perspectives.
When I look at other newsreel footage - in Elk City, Grand Rapids and plenty of other places, the hysteria and stampeding is just the same but different demographics in the crowd, by that I mean white faces in the majority. Someone was killed in Valley Stream, but it looks like it could well have happened in other places.
What does seem different is the sheer number of people involved, and the absence of any kind of control, from Wal-Mart, Green Acres Mall, Securitas or the Police. When I look at footage of other incidents, there is always some kind of queue or barricade system. In this case, there seems to have been none - a solid mass of hyped-up people, all streaming through a tiny bottleneck.
The Nassau Police commissioner described it as 'an entirely foreseeable act'. Someone else likened it to shouting fire in a crowded theatre - the way the entire sale was conceived, to make it as competitive as possible and to cut costs on safety measures.
What do you think?

Well... if anything like that happens, and involves purely whites... they've got to be from a trailer park or something... Again... it's not the color of peoples skin.. If the community were talking about was purley Jamacian or West Indian.. I have a feeling that would not have happened..

Look, it's more than just any one thing, isn't it?
It's greed, poor planning by Wal_mart, the mob mentality, the lack of intelligence and social skills that would predominate in any crowd of people that would actually queue up before 5am at a Wal-Mart, and alcohol use.
You know something? It could've been worse.

Here ya go Steve.. The same thing actually happened the year before at the same store, but apparently no one was killed.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/cop...

"According to the Nassau district attorney's office, a year before Damour's death, on the same store's Black Friday, a crowd pushed the entrance doors off the hinges, and there was "largescale pushing and shoving and customers falling to the ground and being trampled."

Also, today's Newsday (The local daily paper) reports that the crowd was unruly and getting out of control at least 2 hrs before the doors opened,
and the mob refused to listen to Wal-Mart workers who tried to impose some semblance of order at that point. The police were then called to restore order, but apparently all hell broke loose when the doors were opened at 5. It seems the more you learn about what really happened, you really have to lay the blame where it truly belongs: on the moronic mob that saw fit to have to push its way into a WalMart at 5am, and trampled an innocent man to death. Hundreds of them, unfeeling and uncaring, stepped right on his body as he breathed his last.
A man killed....for what?

Well, guys, they're having ANOTHER 5 am sale this year....let's hope and pray that no one is injured this time.

They are actually going to stay open 24 hours tomorrow night for Thanksgiving... As for the unruly crowd.... they "Get Off" on that...