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“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#12754
Jun 12, 2012
 
waco1954 wrote:
Mike Americans were far more into religious conservatism I'm the fifties.And yet....America led the world in hard science graduates.I think we are simply lazy moneygrubbers.Our students flock to law and businesses degrees.That's where the money is....right? America....we consume.....and produce less and less.....our society worships wealth and sex. And you imagine this country to be in the grip of religion? Money......is the true religion...of America.....wake up mike....take a look at what we glorify...not play lip service to.
Here is the problem. American Christians are often hypocrites.
They may believe in creationism and Jesus, then go out and party like a wild man.
They believe they can just as god to forgive them one day and all will be good. No harm, no foul.

Business can only take us so far. We need science also to bring us to new levels. Can you not see that we are slipping in some areas like this that is making us hurt?

Our greatest spurt of science growth came when Kennedy pushed us to go to the moon.
He put massive amounts of initiatives in the science classrooms of public schools.

Hard sciences are only half of the sciences. We cannot just leave out half of science and expect to stay on top.

Since: May 09

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#12755
Jun 12, 2012
 
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Here is the problem. American Christians are often hypocrites.
They may believe in creationism and Jesus, then go out and party like a wild man.
They believe they can just as god to forgive them one day and all will be good. No harm, no foul.
Business can only take us so far. We need science also to bring us to new levels. Can you not see that we are slipping in some areas like this that is making us hurt?
Our greatest spurt of science growth came when Kennedy pushed us to go to the moon.
He put massive amounts of initiatives in the science classrooms of public schools.
Hard sciences are only half of the sciences. We cannot just leave out half of science and expect to stay on top.
Christians are sinners,too. That's why we're Christians.
TSF

Dunn, NC

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#12756
Jun 12, 2012
 
The costly example given was for New York which has collective bargaining for state employees, not for North Carolina which has outlawed collective bargaining for state employees. The only difficulty an administrator would have in firing tenured NC teachers would be if it was being done for arbitrary an/or capricious reasons. Arbitrary and capricious firings were the reasons for for establishment of tenure in the first place. As your article points out; married teachers were being fired for becoming pregnant. Teachers were being fired because they would not inflate the grades of a board members child and other frivolous reasons.
Makin bacon wrote:
<quoted text>
I did find this site that explains the above provided by you:
http://www.cmsdollars.com/dismaltenuredteache...
This article lays out how costly it is to fire a tenured teacher:
http://icw.uschamber.com/newsletter-article/t...
TSF

Dunn, NC

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#12757
Jun 12, 2012
 
Those who perceive a conflict between science and religion with regards to evolution seem to have limited understanding of both religion and science.
Most religious persons acknowledge that God is all powerful and all knowing. So if God created modern species through the PROCESS of evolution, why would religious persons object to HOW God did it? Those who declare that present species developed as a result of probabilistic accident are equally misguided because of their limited understanding of probability.
waco1954

United States

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#12758
Jun 12, 2012
 
I don't let my beliefs interfere with science...and I don't let science affect how I think about GOD.
Always Thinking

Jefferson City, MO

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#12759
Jun 12, 2012
 
Where You The Victim Of or Did You Witness Voter Fraud?

ELECTION FRAUD REMEDY (Being filed and done Pro Bono)
http://electionfraudremedy.com/

Have questions or concerns?
Lawyers For Ron Paul Civil Rights (Voting Rights) Lawsuit FAQ
http://youtu.be/Ei8e794nVmY

Since: Dec 11

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#12760
Jun 12, 2012
 
TSF wrote:
The costly example given was for New York which has collective bargaining for state employees, not for North Carolina which has outlawed collective bargaining for state employees. The only difficulty an administrator would have in firing tenured NC teachers would be if it was being done for arbitrary an/or capricious reasons. Arbitrary and capricious firings were the reasons for for establishment of tenure in the first place. As your article points out; married teachers were being fired for becoming pregnant. Teachers were being fired because they would not inflate the grades of a board members child and other frivolous reasons.
<quoted text>
Just found an article that states in N.C. the 97% of teachers without unions that only 0.37% of tenured teachers are terminated. Statistically, our state should be ranked #1 instead of 27th educationally, because all these teachers must be outstanding. With these statistics, I was right in my original post in stating, once a teacher is tenured they then become a permanent fixture at whatever school they're teaching.
TSF

Dunn, NC

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#12761
Jun 12, 2012
 
North Carolina has an average ANNUAL teacher turnover rate of 12.7%. There is little danger of the "permanent fixture" syndrome you mention because at that rate, on the average, the entire faculty would turnover every 6.5 years. What your figure indicates to me is that only .37 % of the tenured teachers fail to perform their duties, are insubordinate,commit felonies, are immoral, fail to pay their debts, fail to renew their certificates, advocate the violent overthrow of the government, fail at reasonable request of the board, etc. The general population cannot even come close to this when even just criminality is considered, much less all of the others together.
You logic fails in the connection of teacher perfection and comparable ranking because it assumes teachers are the only factor in student performance. There are infinitely more factors.

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Makin bacon wrote:
<quoted text>
Just found an article that states in N.C. the 97% of teachers without unions that only 0.37% of tenured teachers are terminated. Statistically, our state should be ranked #1 instead of 27th educationally, because all these teachers must be outstanding. With these statistics, I was right in my original post in stating, once a teacher is tenured they then become a permanent fixture at whatever school they're teaching.

Since: Dec 11

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#12762
Jun 12, 2012
 
TSF wrote:
North Carolina has an average ANNUAL teacher turnover rate of 12.7%. There is little danger of the "permanent fixture" syndrome you mention because at that rate, on the average, the entire faculty would turnover every 6.5 years. What your figure indicates to me is that only .37 % of the tenured teachers fail to perform their duties, are insubordinate,commit felonies, are immoral, fail to pay their debts, fail to renew their certificates, advocate the violent overthrow of the government, fail at reasonable request of the board, etc. The general population cannot even come close to this when even just criminality is considered, much less all of the others together.
You logic fails in the connection of teacher perfection and comparable ranking because it assumes teachers are the only factor in student performance. There are infinitely more factors.
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<quoted text>
TSF, you're right. The high school I attended still has teachers teaching when I graduated. I don't even know why I engaged in this conversation, because I paid my dues twice by paying for private school tuition and my taxes being used for public education as well. I wouldn't send a child of mine to a public school if I didn't have to, but not everyone feels that way, so to each his own.

Since: Dec 11

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#12763
Jun 12, 2012
 
TSF wrote:
North Carolina has an average ANNUAL teacher turnover rate of 12.7%. There is little danger of the "permanent fixture" syndrome you mention because at that rate, on the average, the entire faculty would turnover every 6.5 years. What your figure indicates to me is that only .37 % of the tenured teachers fail to perform their duties, are insubordinate,commit felonies, are immoral, fail to pay their debts, fail to renew their certificates, advocate the violent overthrow of the government, fail at reasonable request of the board, etc. The general population cannot even come close to this when even just criminality is considered, much less all of the others together.
You logic fails in the connection of teacher perfection and comparable ranking because it assumes teachers are the only factor in student performance. There are infinitely more factors.
.
<quoted text>
One last thing, I looked at the ranking of the schools in our state your county ranked 54th and mine 118th. This could be a reason for our differing opinions.
Calulator

AOL

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#12764
Jun 12, 2012
 
Makin bacon wrote:
<quoted text>
One last thing, I looked at the ranking of the schools in our state your county ranked 54th and mine 118th. This could be a reason for our differing opinions.
Simple solution. If you moved your children to his county, they would be twice as smart.

Since: Dec 11

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#12765
Jun 12, 2012
 
Calulator wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple solution. If you moved your children to his county, they would be twice as smart.
Too dadburn late. Only have one child that graduated some years back, so it's not my problem. Maybe I'll spread the word for those that want their kids to be twice as smart:)

Since: Dec 11

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#12766
Jun 12, 2012
 
Calulator wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple solution. If you moved your children to his county, they would be twice as smart.
One more thing, you must be from my county if your moniker is suppose to be "Calculator".

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#12767
Jun 12, 2012
 
Robert Stowe wrote:
<quoted text>Christians are sinners,too. That's why we're Christians.
I think there is more to it than just this. I think half of the Christians do not even try to be like Jesus.
Thus they are not really following any particular philosophy.
One must at least chose a philosophy and actively try to follow it.
Problem is, I think many of the Christians have doubts as to the truth of the story but still cling to the idea on a certain level
Thus they do not actively follow the philosophy but are just a casual believer.
This is as dangerous as some of the extreme fundamentalists.

I think schools need to be teaching more philosophy.

I think schools should teach more philosophy so anyone, even Christians can have some logical, real philosophies to follow.

One can be a Christian and still follow secular philosophy. Problem is, many if not most churches are not teaching philosophy other than the dogmatic ideas of heaven and hell, fire and brimstone.

That may sometime work, but we all know so many fail to be teteared

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#12768
Jun 12, 2012
 
TSF wrote:
Those who perceive a conflict between science and religion with regards to evolution seem to have limited understanding of both religion and science.
Most religious persons acknowledge that God is all powerful and all knowing. So if God created modern species through the PROCESS of evolution, why would religious persons object to HOW God did it? Those who declare that present species developed as a result of probabilistic accident are equally misguided because of their limited understanding of probability.
You are saying most scientists do not understand probabilities?

This is part of why our children are not into science. Even those who are not so religious discount those scientists who see no reason to have a god creator in the process of evolution.
The Truth

Knoxville, TN

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#12769
Jun 12, 2012
 
Makin bacon wrote:
<quoted text>
One more thing, you must be from my county if your moniker is suppose to be "Calculator".
No, MB, he had it right. He was telling you he was going to "Cal u lator". He must have a crush on you or something.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#12770
Jun 12, 2012
 
Makin bacon wrote:
<quoted text>
Just found an article that states in N.C. the 97% of teachers without unions that only 0.37% of tenured teachers are terminated. Statistically, our state should be ranked #1 instead of 27th educationally, because all these teachers must be outstanding. With these statistics, I was right in my original post in stating, once a teacher is tenured they then become a permanent fixture at whatever school they're teaching.
You are putting all effects on one cause.
I think you do not factor in that any teacher that has been around long enough to be tenured is likely a good teacher and does not do stupid things to be fired for.
This is true in any profession. This is why companies like to see employees that hold jobs for several years. It proves they are good.

Do you ever factor in the parents of these kids? If they do not set good examples, the children are statistically more likely to fail.'That is just human nature. Sure, some defy the statistics, but that does not offset the statistic.

And as I point out, if the parents are telling the kids the teachers are all wrong about things such as science, why would a kid listen to a teacher?

If a kid grows up in a home that is not of literate parents, statistics show they will likely do poorly in school.
These are generational things. It takes a few generations to get up to par. And that is only if all things are on the correct track.

Teachers can only do so much with a child with a sour attitude.
I think private school children do well because any parent so concerned with education that they pay extra for schooling, is likely passing on a good attitude towards school to the child.
And I would suppose if you are paying extra for these teachers, you will not tell the kid they are all wrong about science.

Unfortunately many of the private schools tell the kids evolution is not true. That is a tragedy.

I cannot imagine a religious school turning out to many biology scientists.
Buncombe Native

Asheville, NC

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#12771
Jun 12, 2012
 
Common Sense wrote:
Go Elaine!
Vote out ALL incumbents!!!!!!!!!!

Since: Dec 11

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#12772
Jun 12, 2012
 
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You are putting all effects on one cause.
I think you do not factor in that any teacher that has been around long enough to be tenured is likely a good teacher and does not do stupid things to be fired for.
This is true in any profession. This is why companies like to see employees that hold jobs for several years. It proves they are good.
Do you ever factor in the parents of these kids? If they do not set good examples, the children are statistically more likely to fail.'That is just human nature. Sure, some defy the statistics, but that does not offset the statistic.
And as I point out, if the parents are telling the kids the teachers are all wrong about things such as science, why would a kid listen to a teacher?
If a kid grows up in a home that is not of literate parents, statistics show they will likely do poorly in school.
These are generational things. It takes a few generations to get up to par. And that is only if all things are on the correct track.
Teachers can only do so much with a child with a sour attitude.
I think private school children do well because any parent so concerned with education that they pay extra for schooling, is likely passing on a good attitude towards school to the child.
And I would suppose if you are paying extra for these teachers, you will not tell the kid they are all wrong about science.
Unfortunately many of the private schools tell the kids evolution is not true. That is a tragedy.
I cannot imagine a religious school turning out to many biology scientists.
Mike, as a parent that sent my child to private school and did without some of the "extras" to do so. My parents raised me in a Christian home, and I loved the sciences. I think my degree in microbiology is proof. My husband and I have raised my daughter in a Christian home and she jumped right into the field of medicine. We have never had a conflict of science with our religion. Mike, I don't know if you've been to college or if you have what courses you took, but evolution versus creationism was never debated that much. Chemistry has more to do with math, especially if you get into quantitative chemistry. Identifying bacteria under a microscope, or learning about the anatomy and physiology of the body, DNA, peptides, polypeptides, amino acids etc has nothing to do with how we got here, but more to do with what we are now. It's kind of like which came first the chicken or the egg; it doesn't matter which came first if you're craving KFC or an Egg McMuffin. I know it concerns you how we got here, but in the fields of microbiology trying to identify bacteria causing diseases or in the field of medicine trying to identify if one needs surgery versus using medication to treat an illness doesn't have anything to do with evolution and that seems to be a sticking point for you. These sciences are used in the here and now and no matter if you believe in evolution and I believe in creationism, we can't rewrite history, so arguing about it is a moot point.

Mike, you are correct about children being raised in homes by parents that are illiterate, puts the children at a great disadvantage and it will take a generation or two to break the cycle. Did your parents tell you not to believe things taught in school? I've never heard of that too much. My parents taught me to respect our teachers, not question authority and do our work.
TSF

Dunn, NC

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#12773
Jun 12, 2012
 
Republican speaker of the NC house, Tom Tillis is being slammed in the news for wasting $21,000 dollars on body guards because none of the other state legislators are spending state money on body guards. Well duh!! If you had been giving bonuses to married staff members who were having sexual affairs with lobbyist, you might be afraid also. A jealous spouse can be quite dangerous.

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