Missouri child-support law change touches many issues

hmmm wrote:

<quoted text> You know, I dont pay or receive either, but, here's a thought. I have to pay rent, elect, etc...anyway, since I have to live somewhere. If I were a single mom, then yes, I would like to have some help with things my child needs, such as clothes, food, doctor bills, etc. I don't think my ex should have to pay for my home. I have to have that wether I have kids or not!! I do know it takes alot of money to raise a child, but there are a lot of moms,(not all) that expect the dad to make the car payment, pay the house payment, buy clothes, food, etc...laws need to make people more responsible, but in a fair way. I know women who have kids,and choose not to work, so how are they paying for their new mustang, their nice home, etc. My guess is child support, while dad is living with parents or someone, driving a piece of crap,etc. I do think child support is very necessary, but needs to be more fair!

I agree with most of what you say especially about having to pay rent anyway, unfortunately the majority of single working woman dont make enough to pay rent and child care and all the other monthly expenses. My neighbor pays $150.00 a week for one three year old child, which I think is outrageous. If the custodial parent has remarried then absolutely the money should go for child expenses only.

Brena wrote:

I've been a single parent to 3 stepchildren and several nieces & nephews. Long story short, my ex dumped his 3 children on me and hid out in Oregon. I can not get the court ordered Child Support. Missouri Child Support Enforcement is a bunch of criminals!!! They will not enforce it.

The prosecuting attorney's office enforced my out of state order. You might give them a call.

custodialdadowes20000 wrote:

"I got a job making half of what I was and was ordered to pay my ex half my salary!!!! I live on 15k per year. Were is the justice. Judge Elizebeth Wann is a criminal with a gavel (St. Charles County is rediculous!!!)"
The judge that threw out my divorce was magistrate Victoria Mullen McKee. Since my lawyer Gina Tocco started calling me names and attacking my character to the judge in open court I quickly figured out that my attorney from the firm of Tocco Connely and associates WAS IN THE JUDGES POCKET!
Not only are the family court judges crooked, the defense lawyers are as well!

My husband has been talking with Gina Tocco and is hiring her as his lawyer. He can't afford to pay big bucks so she is letting him pay a little at a time. Is this normal??? EVERY lawyer I've spoken with asks for a retainer fee in full up front before any work can be done. I can't find any info on Gina Tocco on the Internet (other than her office website)...including the Missouri Bar Association!

soontobesingle wrote:

<quoted text>
My husband has been talking with Gina Tocco and is hiring her as his lawyer. He can't afford to pay big bucks so she is letting him pay a little at a time. Is this normal??? EVERY lawyer I've spoken with asks for a retainer fee in full up front before any work can be done. I can't find any info on Gina Tocco on the Internet (other than her office website)...including the Missouri Bar Association!

No that is NOT normal. Not to be nosey but this is for divorce?

A very Merry Christmas and a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year to all....put the spotlight on every inequity in law, government and society in general. Use your superpowers of communication to contribute to the saving of the species (all) and planet.

BTW...ever noticed that lawyers take up more pages soliciting business in the yellow pages than virtually any other business? I've known several people who have been paying lawyers for years after they "counseled and respresented" them in some legal matter. I haven't known any that recieved justice at any cost.
I would be especially wary of anybody named Gina Tocco claiming to be a lawyer and soliciting your business. See "The War of the Roses" and note that the lawyers involved primarily served to extend and exasorbate the conflict so a to get every single last cent possible into thier purses.
If you have a legal problem...depend on an attorney, ONLY if you know them personally for at least ten years and you are sure they will be satisfied with thier part of the settlement - from the most efficient possible handling of the case. Otherwise....you will most likely be better served to learn the appropriate law yourself (which you should do either way) and represent yourself. The hardest part will be getting a hold of some of the forms you will need from the court to file motions, subpeona witnesses, etc.... Just look for these forms as needed and copy from them....most people can do it on "word" or a similar word processing program. The old quote saying that anyone who represents themselves in court has a fool for a client was probably never true and certainly is not true today. Also draw as much attention to the case as possible...even lay witnesses that can testify in an appeal will help keep "the court" a lot straighter than standard practice today.
As I said above...I was married to the most criminal atty you never want to meet. I also took some basic and business law for my business. I was an owner/operator of a small business and never had to go to court to defend the bus in 30 years which included leading the regional field in this high-tech bus. Only had to go once to identify a petty thief, two years after the fact, and was barely able to do so. We didn't get a dime of the money or stolen property back from the case. If you try to live by the golden rule, the big ten and Jesus's explanation and example....you'll do fine since our basic legal laws are based on the above.
The intent of most of our primary laws is to maintain order and fairness in our group but the way they have been modified and litigation or criminal prosecution is practiced today is mostly criminal.
Our society is sick (Jimmy Carter "malaise" speech) and the medicine we need most is to observe the basic laws of the bible and our forefathers. To do this we need to strengthen our moral resolve and turpitude so that we don't yeild to temptation and break these laws. We also need to stop putting up with anyone else breaking these laws up in here (wherever here is for you). We need to hold our law makers responsible for the self-serving half-toxic laws of the recent (at least since the start of the prohibition of cannabis sativa) past. It is thier job to eliminate the negative and accentuate the positive. Most refuse to accept that knowledge bears responsibility and thier responsibility is to aquire the necessary knowledge to make sustainable, beneficial laws.
Just keep using your superpowers of communication to point out the rights and wrongs in our gov and laws. We now have the potential to solve all of our problems via the free spread of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Send your objective observations to our lawmakers, I guess we're going to have to force feed many of them if we're going to survive. Vote out those that fail to do good a vast majority of thier time in office.

Missouri Child support laws are about as ludacris as anything can be. There is a story that should make your blood boil.

A woman and an man live together for nine years and have two children. He is a over the road truck driver and she is living in his home while he is working to support them. She files for services trough DSS, she intercepts all the mailing to him so he doesn't learn about it until he learns he lost his drivers license and every other licence he may have. Immediately he contacts Missouri Department Child Enforcement (MDCE) and they tell him he is to pay over $800 a month, well over half his pay and he is no longer able to drive a truck. Needless to say, they are no longer together.

MDCE say he needs to contact the local DSS office. He does so and takes everything to prove he has been supporting his children and they are living together. She admits to DSS she committed fraud. It is not some five or six months and he still does not have anything taken care of, MDCE is not in the process of garnishing his wages and they want half of his minimum wage pay that he now has to work at due to not having a licence.

There is more to this story than you can imagine but in short, there seems to be nothing he can do to get them off his back, he has hired an attorney, we have all contacted as many agencies as anyone could thing of with no avail... A few days ago they wanted him to sign a paper saying he would pay over $800 a month when he only takes home $225 a week. Non of this has even been to a court, it was all done by Administrative Order. We are not able to find out any information due to the records are confidential but she has committed perjury or fraud, a state statue violation.

If your atty has not used this info to get the garnishment stopped and licences restored, in a max of 30 days, you need a real atty or to represent yourself. Get a book on basic MO family law (library) and get a copy (even if used) of a motion to the court (court clerk) and copy from it. Your first motion should be to expedite this case due to counterproductive undue hardship. At the same time, file a motion explaining exactly how the current situation is fraudulent, impractical and punative and requesting that the court order as follows:
Previous monitary and other things of value granted to the spouse are nullified as the origional claim was fraudulent.
That the cogent licensing office will be notified that the previous claims made in this case are null and void and considered unfounded. The court will also request that these agencies restore the licenses. The court will also inform any/all employers of same.
(anything else, like damages, you may wish to include - for damages list and price each and be able to show reciepts, check copies or explanation of each entry.)
Make your forms as closely as possible to those you are copying from and be sure to fill in every space with the right info (even N/A). These forms must be "perfected" and this includes no missellings or type-o's.
You then "file" the motions with the court clerk and may have to pay a modest filing fee. The court (judge) will either refuse to hear the case, or set a date for a hearing on your motions. If you represent yourself be calm, confident and use your formal good manners (you aren't an atty - just a victimized citizen). Speak only as necessary. Observe some family court before the hearing.

you might also want to include a clause requesting that the court order the spouse to pay back any monies paid and restore any items of value to the plantiff (in this case), you may need to use respondent if this is considered an ongoing case.

Before representing myself in family court, I'd check out resources such as the Missouri branch of the American Coalition for Fathers and Children, www.dadsnow.org/ACFC-MO/ , and www.dadsdivorcekc.com . In Texas, organizations enlist attorneys to advise fathers at low or no cost. They'll answer specific questions, give feedback on papers for filing, etc., for the price of a membership. Similar options may exist in Missouri. Good luck.

Like the poster above...I tried to get help from legal aid, who denied the help based on the fact that they had previously served my X. They did not recommend any avenue for assistance. I have never heard of the orgs you mentioned.

Actually, states do get paid financial incentives by the federal government for collecting child support. This is one of the primary state-level roadblocks to enacting legislation that would establish a rebuttable presumption of equally shared parenting in divorce child custody cases. Legislators usually become unable to support the measure when they find out it's going to cost the state money by reducing the amount of financial incentives paid for collecting child support. That's because the requirement for paying child support is usually reduced or even eliminated when both parents equally share custody of their children. In short, the state *is* getting paid to do this, and that's one reason it's so difficult to change.

Good point Jammer, except for your revealingly stooopid racial slur......Please take a seat in the peanut gallery and help expidite the dissemination of valuable and valid information by limiting transmissions to confirmed, valid (cogent) info.
Good point Mark O' Dallas, you sound like you know,(at least for TX), and your point seems quite valid. Sounds like these laws have become unworkably corrupted and complex, likely for the wrong reasons. Maybe we should suggest that state and fed gov's revue these laws and remake them from the point where the corruption started. This is needed very badly in many, many areas of gov and has been suggested on the subject of our criminal justice system (particularly where cannabis is concerned) by Sen Webb. Support Him and use this as an example for others in other areas.

An organization I belong to, American Coalition for Fathers and Children, has been lobbying Congress to protect states from financial penalties incurred when states pass laws requiring a rebuttable presumption of equally shared parenting. Feminist organizations such as NOW, Emily's List and Legal Momentum represent the primary obstacles to these efforts. Many feminists strongly oppose shared parenting initiatives. I believe they are misguided, but they have far more money, members, lobbyists, public sentiment and influence with the media on their side, so they are prevailing for the most part so far.

Fenton MO wrote:

Child support is a difficult subject and no most women who get child support are not abusing the system. The money goes towards room and board, insurance, food, clothes, medical bills, school supplies and projects and yes sometimes entertainment. The majority of women I know including myself who should be receiving child support do not recieve it. I know it is hard to pay child support and have your own place, but guess what the custodial parent is pulling off having there own place and paying for a child. My ex and I have been apart for 6.5 years and he owes over 30,000 in back child support. If you think a child doesn't cost that much, take this into consideration $180 a month in prescriptions (this is with insurance)$210 a month in child care so I can work (this is just after school) say 160 a month for food (Just the kids portion) That is 550 a month which is $6600 a year and that is not including clothes, school activities extra money for rent or mortgage for a bigger place and so on. Oh yeah I have figured it out on average kids cost about 9700 a year to raise, feed and bathe. I am sorry if you don't get to see your children, I have custody of mine and don't get to see her much either because I am working my butt of to keep a roof over her head. I do think after 18 child support should not be mandatory but if a non custodial parent is behind when the child turns 18 they should pay the custodial parent until they are caught up. I sacrifice and so does my daughter. Her father not so much.

well first after all the figures you added for the father to pay 160 food 210 child care,180 in perscriptions, i understand but if thats the full amount where's your half? and if the child turns 18 i think the father should pay the child back support after all its for the child anyway right?

Thanks Mark O' AUSTIN....excuse me please (as I thankfully note you have tacitly done). Thanks for the example of why I believe lobbying should be illegal...it is the source of most of the greiviously wrong law which is about to cause a complete failure of our system.
I am optomistic about the rebalancing of the levels of the voices to which congress, the administrative and judicial branches are now exposed. We the people finally have a fast and simple medium for communications with our elected representatives and thier appointees. Considering that we far outnumber lobbyists (in any form), our combined voices can more than compete. If we get neg response, we simply vote out the counterproductive public servant. We can now make better decisions and suggestions because we have almost unlimited information about any given subject at our fingertips. We can also spread the good word and make well founded recommendations about voting to our neighbors...en masse even!
Information is power....a true but dangerous fact. Knowledge bears responsibility...also true so don't fail to do your duty and discharge your responsibility to the best of your ability.
Al Gores' new book is rather optomistic and proof that the majority will make the best decisions and take the best actions if fully informed with the truth. This subject is one of many where reform (or maybe redesign) is sorely needed and realizing that two heads are better than one, etc. we may be able to save our society and planet via the dreams of our founding fathers.
Sharing stories and info like this has never been possible before...we have never had the opportunity to save and restore the society, species and planet before. I think we can do it, if we try hard. Cooperation before competition or......?
To the undecided, Join our mutual admiration and education society, accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative....bingo! WIN! WIN! WIN! WIN!.....for all.

I've read there are "incentives" for collection of child support, and hearsay that, in the new year, Missouri won't lock up those convicted of "felony unemployment".
(10% of fathers not paying ordered child support are resisting (the "deadbeats"). 66% lack the financial resources. US Government Accounting Office, HRD-92-39 FS.) Wonder how much it cost for Uncle Sam to figure that out?

I've heard there are also "incentives" for locking people up?, which likely outweighs the "incentive" for collection of support? If it is all about the money, I guess we'll see what tips the scales of "justice" in the new year, won't we?

MAN....thanks for the report from the underground. I had a roommate for a year or two, a friend of around 20 yrs then (30 now), who was apparently also feloniously unemployed. I was always under the belief that it was "failure to pay child support" that he might get locked up for. Just the first reading of this charge sounds like disintigrating constitutional rights to me.
Thanks for more truth we needed about how wrong the twisted laws (and thier execution) really are. Combined with the many stories of harm and inequity done by this expensive division, courts, lawyers, corrections, lawmakers, and the many businesses that supply and/or perform these jobs, sounds like we need to DEMAND redesign of the whole system and all subsystems.
We can't afford to let them continue doing more harm than good at public expense.

Though I would share the latest, unbelievable update on the father that has been ordered to pay child support while she and the children were living with him and he was working.

The latest is, DFS seen enough to say he was wrongfully ordered to pay child support. DFS investigator seen he was wrongfully ordered to pay child support. The Regional Child Enforcement Office and their supervisors saw he was wrongfully ordered to pay child support. SO you would think it is almost over, right? NO, the higher ups, we presume Jeff City says it's not enough.

They do not see her confession as enough, his paperwork that shows his paychecks were picked up by her, and the dozens of other items to prove his case. They are still keeping his drivers license, commercial and personal, garnishing his pay which leaves him with about $100 per week. Regional Child Enforcement Office admitted they now understand why we were so frustrated the other day when we were at the agency.

All this is like a blind and deaf hunting dog on the trail of something wrong and there is only one way to stop it. It's a joke don't take it seriously but it's the only scenario I can come up with.

Something smells fishy in Denmark...like the majority of our gov actions today. I can only suggest that you go up the chain of command requesting personal meetings (which you record with a $30 palmcorder - cassette tape) with each step of the way. Do not accept that "you can't get there from here" or any other excuses or ploys to deter or impede you in your quest for justice and correction of the system. At the same time, write to the state and federal attornies general, director of health and welfare, human services and/or any other potentially productive political/legal entities, including and espeically the media. Write to local papers and broadcast stations and call them to "encourage" them to do thier duty and report this story for correctional and educational purposes. You might also try those orgs suggested above or "legal aid" and/or the state Bar (barristers) assoc about "pro bono" (free) representation.
I would suggest doing these things in a "blitzkrieg" (lightening war) since, as a wise economist said, "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" and you can use a magnifying glass to intensify the effect and shorten the treatment time. Most likely, the "problem" will take the path of least resistance and bring some equity and the fastest possible acceptable solution to your problems. Just keep persistently sounding the storm warning continuously until you get justice.
If none of this works, file a civil law suit against the dept. with a lawyer you can trust, or do it yourself. You could file several on behalf of the children, your family, and anyone else that has been "harmed or damaged" in the process, in small claims court where it's easier to represent yourselves.
Sounds like someone has politically (under the table) maligned the system just for you....define the why, who and how of this possibility - don't obcess on the injustice, just know your enemy and spell it out rationally if asked.
Our gov MUST straighten up and fly right or....? The wisest heads say...cooperation before competition - or death. A limited time offer.
Problems with our child support system must be solved via quick efficient measures to correct current malaties and prevent future ones...as a routine step in saving the society, species and planet.
Waste not,(so we will), want not. An offer from God the Father and Mother Nature that we can no longer afford to refuse. This includes time, money and every other resource.
Hope you had a very Merry Christmas (or your choice of holiday) and have a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.