New revelations in attack on American spy ship

Very sad wrote:

<quoted text>Good points, the Liberty was the most advanced SPY SHIP Uncle Sam had, unbelievable the situation and facts as they have been layed out priorly by myself and others. But I have always professed that the Israeli's History and Success has been its superior Intelligent system second to none, why MONEY at hand. If the USA had responded with more help and not shooed the torpedo boats away, that boat would have hit the bottom, with no witnesses FOR SURE. That boat was marked with a USA flag of some sort, and something was collected by the USA that ticked off the ISRAELI's that this was premeditated, and LBJ knew they the CIA had rocked the boat and he was concealing that.

Very Sad, you said it. You found the answer.

"Israeli's History and Success has been its superior Intelligent system second to none"

So how could they (Israel) NOT know Liberty was American? They knew and they also knew the position of the US carriers plus the flight time of responding US fighters off those carriers.

So the attack wasn't an error and planned. Now why? What would make her so important that she must be eliminated? Wouldn't Israel know there would be other assets then just Liberty? Like a sub and aircraft. They knew Uncle Sam better then Uncle Sam knows itself.

Was it a warning not to mess with Israel that still rings loudly today? How would they know she discovered some secret evidence without counter spying on her outgoing tranmissions. And if she alreay reported the evidence there would be no reason to attack her.

No, the reason lies in the relationship and not what she knew.

The reason and cause of the attack is not to get America into the war. The war was never planned to last more then a week or two. The cause was not because Liberty gathered some damaging evidence that had possibly already been reported by her and other assets. The reason was not she was too close to the action and it was a mistake.

The reason revolves around the relationship of the two countries back in 1967. Neither one trusted each other at the highest levels of Government. In fact, the USA wasn't supporting Israel at the time with it's primary weapons. Kind of a relationship based on always keeping one eye on the other and without trust.

No, she was a target based on making a strong and clear message to the other side.

Very sad wrote:

<quoted text>You need to stick to being a rockstar Sir, most of what you have said and I hope I don't have to expose you on each point because most is false. And as the CHRISTIAN buddy of yours said stick to the Topic, Misinformed one.

I was only responding to your negative comments regarding "Americans" Most people living in the USA don't support our Government nor it's current policies. We stand with our Canadian Brothers for peace worldwide. This includes the Middle East.

I will stay on topic as long as you do. By the way, I am not a rockstar and my post name relates to Liberty. I will let you find out how.

Rockstar wrote:

The reason and cause of the attack is not to get America into the war. The war was never planned to last more then a week or two. The cause was not because Liberty gathered some damaging evidence that had possibly already been reported by her and other assets. The reason was not she was too close to the action and it was a mistake.
The reason revolves around the relationship of the two countries back in 1967. Neither one trusted each other at the highest levels of Government. In fact, the USA wasn't supporting Israel at the time with it's primary weapons. Kind of a relationship based on always keeping one eye on the other and without trust.
No, she was a target based on making a strong and clear message to the other side.

This is getting to the point that other "NOT SO SWIFT READERS" can't contemplate, because they don't understand the NUANCES of PRE 1967 and THE EVENTS OF 8/06/67. The USA was in a war with stopping the spreading of COMMUNISM, they always thought Israel would become Communist, mistrust. Same reason why the Vatican sided with Germany during WW2 because the Opinion of the day was that the JEWS and Communism went hand in hand.
You made some good points

Rockstar wrote:

<quoted text>
Very Sad, you said it. You found the answer.
"Israeli's History and Success has been its superior Intelligent system second to none"
So how could they (Israel) NOT know Liberty was American? They knew and they also knew the position of the US carriers plus the flight time of responding US fighters off those carriers.
So the attack wasn't an error and planned. Now why? What would make her so important that she must be eliminated? Wouldn't Israel know there would be other assets then just Liberty? Like a sub and aircraft. They knew Uncle Sam better then Uncle Sam knows itself.
Was it a warning not to mess with Israel that still rings loudly today? How would they know she discovered some secret evidence without counter spying on her outgoing tranmissions. And if she alreay reported the evidence there would be no reason to attack her.
No, the reason lies in the relationship and not what she knew.

Israel never had Satelites like today, so your assumptions of where the Sixth Fleet was could be suspect. It was deliberate attack, except that.

In a report written by the "Institute for Defense Analysis" and looking at all the available evidence concluded. That the ship was ordered to station 2-June-1967, unannounced to Israel and close to the belligerent shores without protection was inviting disaster.

Regardless of existing US/Israeli relations the move by the US did pose a real threat to USS Liberty not just from Israeli forces but all combatants.

The thought a invisable line in the water at 12 miles would halt this threat was proven a major error by the US. If she was to be that close and still operating in international waters she should have been escorted by a warship.

The Navy did have concern over Liberty's position leading up to the attack. Orders for her to move away to 100 miles from the shore was lost and never received by the ship.

So the Navy put Liberty in harms way. Well, that is sometimes the mission of navel vessels. But the Israelis did correctly identify her prior to the attack but continued the mission anyway. Very powerful message to LBJ. and staff. Sadly young American boys in caught in the middle - again.

Very sad wrote:

<quoted text>Israel never had Satelites like today, so your assumptions of where the Sixth Fleet was could be suspect. It was deliberate attack, except that.

Come on, Nearly everyone knows the location of US carrier battle groups at any given time - then or now. Back in 1967 Israel could just listen to all the radio chatter if need be. But, I expect we told Israel we had (3) carrier battle groups in the area. Two in the Med (America & Saratoga) and one in the Red Sea (Intrepid). We also had a amphibous landing group attached to the Sixth Fleet carrying a battalion land team (BLT) minus one company of Marines.

The location of US forces was indicated on IDF operational head quarters maps before, during and after the war.

Very sad wrote:

<quoted text>You must be very young Christian one and don't understand how your Government works. Papers are never released relating to the facts Willingly, until all known witnesses have passed away. IE. Kennedy.
At the least The Cia or someone doesn't want to giveup "THERE SOURCES" or "THERE WAY OF GATHERING INTELLIGENCE".

Very Sad, AIPAC "Hit Man"...

The USS Liberty Attack and the call for JUSTICE is not about being a Jew, Christian or Moslum, its about a deliberate attack on an unarmed American ship and the continuing cover-up...

Your obvious HATE for the United States and CHRISTIANS only blinds you from the obvious TRUTH.

You are doing a great job for the boys at AIPAC, ADL, JDL, ACLU, etc. I'm sure they are very proud of you.

God...You must be French too!!!

www.ussliberty.com

Christian Carpenter wrote:

<quoted text>
Very Sad, AIPAC "Hit Man"...
The USS Liberty Attack and the call for JUSTICE is not about being a Jew, Christian or Moslum, its about a deliberate attack on an unarmed American ship and the continuing cover-up...
Your obvious HATE for the United States and CHRISTIANS only blinds you from the obvious TRUTH.
You are doing a great job for the boys at AIPAC, ADL, JDL, ACLU, etc. I'm sure they are very proud of you.
God...You must be French too!!!
www.ussliberty.com

I do not hate anyone, and your assertions throughout this post reveal your emotional imaturity, and ignorance of History. You are whiner, we continue to describe the Government WEBSITE, the details and its to much for you. I'm sorry that my comparisons are to much for you to bare. I have admitted who is at fault, many times. I am a realist and you can't deal with reality. You act like MAMA's BOY

Very sad wrote:

<quoted text>You need to stick to being a rockstar Sir, most of what you have said and I hope I don't have to expose you on each point because most is false. And as the CHRISTIAN buddy of yours said stick to the Topic, Misinformed one.

Once again, Mr. Very Sad, you are trying to turn this into a Jewish v. Christian thing.

The Topic still remains: The Israeli Attack on The USS Liberty on June 8, 1967 and the pre-med-murder of 32 Americans and injury of another 171!

One of the major questions remain: "Was there a cover up by both Americans and Israelis after the ATTACK"?

Why is it so hard for you to understand why this unanswered question needs to be answered!

www.ussliberty.com

Rockstar wrote:

<quoted text>
Come on, Nearly everyone knows the location of US carrier battle groups at any given time - then or now. Back in 1967 Israel could just listen to all the radio chatter if need be. But, I expect we told Israel we had (3) carrier battle groups in the area. Two in the Med (America & Saratoga) and one in the Red Sea (Intrepid). We also had a amphibous landing group attached to the Sixth Fleet carrying a battalion land team (BLT) minus one company of Marines.
The location of US forces was indicated on IDF operational head quarters maps before, during and after the war.

Documented History, as in the AGRINAT committee, which is the Israeli's aftermath hearings, which were made public and is what we know about Factual going ons. Hours before the War started the IDF and PM were waiting for the FM to return from NSA-CIA meetings, for briefings and with final SATELITE IMAGERY of the whole area, Arab placement of armaments etc, etc. They knew where the Sixth fleet was then, but in war everyone has codes and logistics and bearings change all the time. The part that you have added about moving the Liberty out one hundred miles and not done is extremely revealing and if true very harmful to any case brought up in the future.

"Given their skills and experiences, Jews today have excellent employment opportunities ... Jews are represented among those men most active in promoting reform in top-level positions in banking, government, and the media."

-- Michael Paul Sacks, 1998, p. 265, Jewish author
commenting about Jews in Russia

Very sad wrote:

<quoted text>Documented History, as in the AGRINAT committee, which is the Israeli's aftermath hearings, which were made public and is what we know about Factual going ons. Hours before the War started the IDF and PM were waiting for the FM to return from NSA-CIA meetings, for briefings and with final SATELITE IMAGERY of the whole area, Arab placement of armaments etc, etc. They knew where the Sixth fleet was then, but in war everyone has codes and logistics and bearings change all the time. The part that you have added about moving the Liberty out one hundred miles and not done is extremely revealing and if true very harmful to any case brought up in the future.

Sad, The fact Liberty was ordered away from the zone has been published all over. Including the book "Attack on the Liberty". The order got lost in transit and never received by Liberty.

The reason she was ordered to pull back was not totally because she was in danger. The US was concerned about provoking the Russians thus the position of the major US Navel forces several hundred miles to the west. Liberty was ordered away in part for this reason.

Ex Navy wrote:

<quoted text>
No, a 'proper' investigation would be a Navy Board of Inquiry. You know, the one that's been done for every single 'friendly' naval attack in history except the Liberty?
Seems odd that this was the only investigation needed and called for, and yet it's the only one that hasn't been done.
Of course it COULD lead to an investigation of the war crimes that took place at the hands of the Israelis at El Arish.

The "massacre" at El Arish is just another arab massacre hoax. remember Jenin?

http://www.camera.org/index.asp...

Imagine the famous speach by President Roosevelt to Congress December 8th, 1941. Then replace all mention of Japan with Israel and the date December 7th, 1941 with June, 8th, 1967.

Mr. Vice President, Mr. Speaker, Members of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:

Yesterday, June 8th, 1967 -- a date which will live in infamy -- the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces from the Nation of Israel.

The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Israel, was still in conversation with its government and its Prime Minister looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Middle East.

Indeed, two hours after Israeli air squadrons had commenced attacking the American ship USS Liberty, the Israeli ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to our Secretary of State a formal reply of apology to a recent American request.

It will be recorded that the distance of Liberty from Israel makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many hours or days prior.

During the intervening time, the Israeli government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of safety and continued peace between our nations.

The attack yesterday on the on the USS Liberty has caused severe damage to the American ship and its crew. I regret to tell you that very many American lives have been lost. In addition, the American ship has been reported torpedoed on the high seas.

Yesterday, the Israeli government also launched an attack against Egypt.

Last night, Israeli forces attacked the Sinai Peninsula.

Last night, Israeli forces attacked Jordan.

Last night, Israeli forces attacked Syria.

Israel has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Middle East region. The facts of yesterday and today speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.

As commander in chief of the United States Armed Services, I have directed that all measures be taken for our reaction. But always will our whole nation remember the character of the onslaught against us.

No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated attack, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.

I believe that I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our ships, and our interests are in grave danger.

With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Israel on June 8th, 1967, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Nation of Israel.

Christian Carpenter wrote:

<quoted text>
Once again, Mr. Very Sad, you are trying to turn this into a Jewish v. Christian thing.
The Topic still remains: The Israeli Attack on The USS Liberty on June 8, 1967 and the pre-med-murder of 32 Americans and injury of another 171!
One of the major questions remain: "Was there a cover up by both Americans and Israelis after the ATTACK"?
Why is it so hard for you to understand why this unanswered question needs to be answered!
www.ussliberty.com

You are losing it thread by thread, never have I made it anything of the sort. Change your name and quit WHINING. Or are we reporting the facts to fast for you.

OK, the Roosevelt thing was over the top. But this was LBJ's comment to the Liberty attack. Times do change.

"We saw no need to inform Israel or any other party to the hostilities of the Liberty's location since the ship was on a peaceful mission and was in international waters. I have seen a report alleging that the Israeli Government has asked us about the presence of the ship prior to the attack, but that report is not true."

Lyndon B. Johnson, then-President of the United States

Rockstar wrote:

Imagine the famous speach by President Roosevelt to Congress December 8th, 1941. Then replace all mention of Japan with Israel and the date December 7th, 1941 with June, 8th, 1967.

OMG!!! Don't tell me Roosevelt then attacked Israel!
I see your point, there is a certain, shall we say moral equivalency between the attack on pearl Harbor by the Japanese and the attack on the Liberty by the Israelis.
Here's how it goes.
It was a sunny day in Hawaii on Dec 7, 1941. Coincidentally, it was also a sunny day on June 8, 1967 off the coast of the Sinai.
US Sailors were playing football, sunning themselves, enjoying umbrella drinks when all of a sudden, WHAM. A million Japanese fighters and bombers attacked.
Coincidentally, the crew of the USS Liberty were enjoying some umbrella drinks and doing other things young American sailors do when on spy ships in war zones. All of a sudden WHAM, the Israelis attacked.
Roosevelt decided that the attack on the Liberty was a day of infamy. so he declared war on Germany. And that's how the jews made Roosevelt go to war with Germany and made the government cover it up.
(How am I doing?)

Chief Lazy Horse
Germany> Hi Dr.Goebbels! Do you want to start new war for Israel?
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en...

Rockstar wrote:

OK, the Roosevelt thing was over the top. But this was LBJ's comment to the Liberty attack. Times do change.
"We saw no need to inform Israel or any other party to the hostilities of the Liberty's location since the ship was on a peaceful mission and was in international waters. I have seen a report alleging that the Israeli Government has asked us about the presence of the ship prior to the attack, but that report is not true."
Lyndon B. Johnson, then-President of the United States

Some of us are having a hard time following the Post. So maybe we should limit the Satire HA HA. Better simple and layman like, so some of us won't lose it totally.