Nazi suspect Demjanjuk arrives in Germany

Canuck wrote:

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LOL...Looks like you may also quality for deportation as a Ukrainian Nazi war criminal.

And, as a soviet assasin and Canadian communist terrorist, you will be sent to a Canadian prison for life, or will be "SHOT WHILE ESCAPING"..

German attempt to turn the tragedy of Nazi Germany's crimes against humanity into a last chance political show trial is unforgivable.

Given Nazi Germany's devastation of Ukraine, many Ukrainians have wondered why Germany is not prosecuting its own home-grown ethnic German Nazis, many of whom committed war crimes against Ukrainians.

Let me refer to Auschwitz, a footnote to the entire scope of the tragedy of Nazi Germany, to make a point.

Beginning in 1941 to 1944, about 15,000 Red Army prisoners of war, from various ethnic groups within Bolshevik Russia (USSR), were brought to Auschwitz. Almost needless to say, many of them were Ukrainians. Almost all of them perished there. About 3,000 were killed by being shot or gassed immediately after arriving, and about 12,000 perished from starvation and exhaustion. At the last roll call, only 92 prisoners of war remained in the camp.

Besides the Ukrainians among the Red Army prisoners, there were at least 600 Ukrainians who opposed compulsory slave labor in Germany.(There were about 1.0 million Ukrainian youths forced into slave labor by Nazi Germany.)

Likewise, as the war progressed many Ukrainians in the Ukrainian Insurgent Army ended up there as well.

Promo Levi in his classic account,'Survival in Auschwitz: The Nazi Assault on Humanity' mentions Ukrainian Red Army women prisoners in a separate camp within Auschwitz, who sang haunting Ukrainian songs that were not heard later because they had all been murdered.

A long time ago, I had the great fortune to meet a man that, because of the tattooed number on his arm, I thought was a Jewish Holocaust survivor, but he surprised me by saying he was a Ukrainian who the Gestapo had caught transporting medical supplies meant for the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. He ended up in Auschwitz.

He has passed away now, but I will never forget him, his friendship, nor his accounts of life in the camps.

He often criticized media depictions of Auschwitz, and he said the place was for the most part run by prisoners--the despised kapos. He claimed that the Germans were rarely seen, and that the camps could not have operated without the cooperation of the kapos with the Germans.

He also said that only those who had survived Auschwitz could understand what it was like.

Given that most of the victims at Auschwitz were Jews, the tragic irony of Auschwitz was that the psychopathic kapos, most of whom would have been Jews, assisted Nazi German psychopaths in carrying out genocide.

Many of these psychopaths in ordinary life would have been indistinguishable from the normal population, but in times of social distress, conflict and war, these psychopaths emerged and openly became the intra-species predators that they were. This undisguised and vicious presence working in league with the Nazi oppressors would have been a shock to the values of the uncomprehending normal prisoners.

This ordinariness of these callous psychopathic traitors, cheaters, defectors,and non-cooperators is the "banality of evil" that Hannah Arendt spoke of after having met Eichmann, who seemed surprisingly "normal" to Arendt. Eichmann was very possibly a high functioning, white collar, psychopath, something that Arendt quite likely would not have appreciated.

For many Jews, there was undoubtedly survivor guilt, as there would have been for Ukrainians, and other survivors of Naziism.

I suspect Jews had a moral dilemma about what to do with the kapos after the war, but they probably had no idea that psychopathy would have been a major factor in the tragedy. The psychopaths did what they did --not only because they were "following orders" --but because as psychopaths, they were neurobiologically incapable of experiencing conscience, empathy, sympathy, pity, compassion , remorse, guilt--love or loyalty to their own people, let alone anyone else.

The horror of psychopathy at Auschwitz was that, for the psychopaths (whether German, Jewish, Ukrainian, or any other ethnicity), there was no horror. For them it was just another opportunity to control and dominate others.

That is the ugly lesson that German prosecutors-- in their attempts to deflect German war crimes guilt onto their scapegoat, John Demjajnjuk-- are unlikely to present at the trial.

EastCoastBrit wrote:

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You can hate Germany all you want but it seem your Russian friends are pals with them (look up the relationship between the two countries, nothing but friendship). I think Germany is the only country the bloody russians trust.
I dont blame them, we brits hate you Russian cowards for what you did to eastern Europe.
I mean real brits not JAZZY who isn't a brit but a russian living in the UK. We have many of them living there trying to be british.

Was any Russian ever charged with a war crime???

Suspected Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk arrived in Germany on Tuesday and faced an arrest warrant accused of being part in World War II killings of 29,000 prison inmates, media reports said. The 89-year-old Ukrainian-born suspect was deported from the United States to be placed in a Munich prison's medical unit. Demjanjuk is to undergo medical checks for authorities to decide whether he is fit to stand trial. He had been taken by ambulance to the airport in Cleveland,bye.

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Abe wrote:

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Its true that every group of people have their good and bad.
Sadly the Kapos were part of the bad element of the Jewish community collaborating with the Nazis, although they would say they were "just carrying out orders" to preserve their own lives. Kapos were shown in Steven Speilberg's movie "Schindler's List".
If the politically correct hypocrite elites are going to prosecute/persecute Demanjuk on flimsy evidence (Already rejected by the Israeli Supreme Court) then perhaps they should dig up some old Kapos to go after as well, in all fairness.

Here is a Wiki entry on "kapo" that suggests psychopathy among the Jewish kapos as a factor in their brutality against prisoners from their own in-group:

Kapo (concentration camp)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo_ (concentration_camp)

Small Town America wrote:

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And, as a soviet assasin and Canadian communist terrorist, you will be sent to a Canadian prison for life, or will be "SHOT WHILE ESCAPING"..

LOL....Being the idiot that your are, you must have a few Ukrainian Nazi's up your family tree among other subhuman species.
You truly are a pathetic piece of rancid crap.

Mr Zack Smack wrote:

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Was any Russian ever charged with a war crime???

Silly question Smacker...why would any Russian be charged with anything?
The Russians fought side by side with our allies against the horror of the Nazi war machine.
They are the heros who fought for and gave their lives for our freedom, the same freedom you enjoy in your daily life you ungrateful moron. Shame on you.

Canuck wrote:

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Silly question Smacker...why would any Russian be charged with anything?
The Russians fought side by side with our allies against the horror of the Nazi war machine.
They are the heros who fought for and gave their lives for our freedom, the same freedom you enjoy in your daily life you ungrateful moron. Shame on you.

Well, I doubt any russians gave their lives to save me or our freedoms..They were just defending their own country from German invasion. Seems to me after WW2, they were trying to take away my freedom and that of the West..of course, our American/Canadaian/other allies and their military was protecting our freedoms, and for that, we are eternally thankful!!

Canuck wrote:

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LOL....Being the idiot that your are, you must have a few Ukrainian Nazi's up your family tree among other subhuman species.
You truly are a pathetic piece of rancid crap.

Ah! The soviet russian immigrant to Canada talks of trees..the branch of a tree rammed inside his rectum by a pissed off beaver surely makes him sore..haha!!

Small Town America wrote:

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Well, I doubt any russians gave their lives to save me or our freedoms..They were just defending their own country from German invasion. Seems to me after WW2, they were trying to take away my freedom and that of the West..of course, our American/Canadaian/other allies and their military was protecting our freedoms, and for that, we are eternally thankful!!

You sound like a moldy remnant from the cold war propaganda. Although the most of the world is grateful, with the exception of countries like ESStonia, Lithuania,Latvia, Ukraine, for the combined efforts of our allies. But it was the Soviet Union who led the charge against Nazism and paid the heaviest price for our freedom. Most of the allies, including the USA joined the cause only after it was clear that the Nazi were going to loose the war. "eternally thankful" is a phrase mose suited towards the Soviet Union.

Small Town America wrote:

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Ah! The soviet russian immigrant to Canada talks of trees..the branch of a tree rammed inside his rectum by a pissed off beaver surely makes him sore..haha!!

Oh well, what else can one expect from a Ukrainian Nazi sympathizer who is still licking his nuts about the Nazi defeat.

Top German court receives Demjanjuk appeal
(AP)– 1 day ago

KARLSRUHE, Germany — Germany's highest court says it has received an appeal from John Demjanjuk's lawyer seeking to block the 89-year-old's trial.

However, the Federal Constitutional Court did not say Monday when it might rule on the request to halt the trial, which is scheduled to open in Munich on Nov. 30.

Lawyer Ulrich Busch said last week he would seek to halt the trial. He has cited health concerns among other issues....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/A...

Abe wrote:

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Its true that every group of people have their good and bad.
Sadly the Kapos were part of the bad element of the Jewish community collaborating with the Nazis, although they would say they were "just carrying out orders" to preserve their own lives. Kapos were shown in Steven Speilberg's movie "Schindler's List".
If the politically correct hypocrite elites are going to prosecute/persecute Demanjuk on flimsy evidence (Already rejected by the Israeli Supreme Court) then perhaps they should dig up some old Kapos to go after as well, in all fairness.

I agree. Consistency and impartiality are important.

Apparently there was one kapo (out "of the several hundred Jewish kapos") who was identified, and that the OSI tried to expel from the USA:

HAUNTING ISSUES SURROUND JEWISH NAZI CAMP OVERSEER
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/26/nyregion/ha...

I'm not sure what happened to him, although there was a play about him: "The Action Against Sol Schumann" by Jeffrey Sweet.

The issue of "volunteering" versus being "forced" into being a kapo has come up; but what difference does it make if the kapo chose to murder and brutalize fellow inmates, even if his inhumanity delighted the Nazi German administration?

Does "volunteering" to join the Waffen SS to join the military fight against Russian Bolshevik imperialism automatically translate into something as evil as "volunteering" for death camp duties?

Does anything excuse a psychopathic kapo for murdering fellow inmates --just because he was a a "victim"?

Many of the kapos relished their control and power --especially over life and death --just like some of the Nazi German camp administrators --and that is a signature trait of psychopaths.

Many Jews and Ukrainians chose severe punishment, death or suicide over raising a hand against, or murdering, a fellow human being, let alone someone from their in-group.

To be consistent, shouldn't all of the kapos who murdered and brutalized other inmates ought to brought to justice just like any other murderers or accomplices?

Should anybody be embarrassed by psychopathy in the death camps?

Instead of turning a blind eye, shouldn't the kapos be prosecuted?

One may wonder, would German prosecutors have had the motivation "for justice" to extradite a kapo for being "an accessory to 29,000 murders?" Or was extraditing someone like John Demjanjuk more convenient? And why have German Nazis who drove the whole system of genocide been spared?

Mr Zack Smack wrote:

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Was any Russian ever charged with a war crime???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crime...

"Soviet war crimes"

Yet another innocent victim of the "Chosen People".

Why_Me wrote:

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crime...
"Soviet war crimes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavrentiy_Beria#...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Abakumov

Here's a great Esquire article on the farce of....

John Demjanjuk: The Last Nazi

Funny thing is, he was never a Nazi, nor Ivan the Terrible, nor even German. So why now is he standing trial in Munich as accessory to 27,900 Nazi murders? Is this one last blow struck for justice for the Holocaust? Or is it a farce?

By: Scott Raab

Were we not speaking of the Holocaust — Shoah, the Greatest Crime Ever Perpetrated, a Darkness Inexplicable, Pure Evil Incarnate — it would be funny.

Because it is the Holocaust, however, it is hilarious: No greater monster left alive, John Demjanjuk sits where Hitler once sat — in a cell in Munich's Stadelheim prison — waiting for his lunch, and for justice to be done to him again.

Again. As the dwindling few real-life Nazis march day by day to hell, as their numbers shrink and our remembrance fades, the faceless face on atrocity's Most Wanted poster is again — again — this recycled Ukrainian peasant, now eighty-nine years old.

Lunch eventually will come. As for justice, who knows when or what that will be. Justice took its time last time, seven years in all, dawdling till the gallows were built; Demjanjuk heard the work crew daily, hammering the planks. But there, at least — in, of all places, Israel — his jailers brought fresh vegetables, and tins of mystery meat, and let him thrust his thick arms through the bars of his cell and fix himself supper on a hot plate.

From those Jews — after he was found guilty of being one of two men who ran the gas chambers at Treblinka, where nearly a million Jews were killed — from them, he got a civilized evening meal.

From these Germans — who have now charged him with being a mere accessory to the murder of a mere 27,900 Jews at Sobibor, a different extermination camp — what does he get for dinner?

Here, presumed innocent, he gets bread and cheese at 3:00 P.M., and so to bed.....

http://www.esquire.com/print-this/john-demjan...

It seems that the star witness for the German prosecution in the upcoming Demjanjuk trial is an admitted SS man suspected of being an even greater war criminal than Demjanjuk.....more shameless German hypocrisy....

11/02/2009

The German Demjanjuk
Witness in War Crimes Trial Could Face Indictment

By Georg Bönisch and Jan Friedmann

amuel K. is expected to testify in the upcoming Nazi war crimes trial against 89-year-old John Demjanjuk. The witness himself has admitted in the past that he had aided the SS in its murderous practices. He has never been forced to answer before a court despite being "strongly suspected" of aiding and abetting the murder of 434,000 people.

Samuel K. is nearly 89 years old, hard of hearing and has a pacemaker. Taking this into consideration, two investigators from the Bavarian State Office of Criminal Investigation decided to question the witness at home. They visited K. in his attractive little house near Bonn, which has a view of the Drachenfels mountain on the other side of the Rhine River.

The old man spoke openly. Yes, he said, he had been recruited by the SS and trained at the Trawniki camp, east of the Polish city of Lublin. Yes, he admitted, he had served at the Belzec camp, also located on Polish territory. He said that nobody had any doubts about what happened there. "We all realized that the Jews were exterminated and later also burned there. We could even smell that every day."
The meeting, which took place in June, lasted roughly an hour. Samuel K. has since been subpoenaed to repeat his testimony in the spectacular trial of the alleged concentration camp guard John Demjanjuk, who is also 89 years old.

According to the indictment prepared by the Munich public prosecutor's office, in 1943 Demjanjuk was an accessory to the murder of at least 27,900 Jews in Sobibor, an extermination camp like Belzec. The trial is scheduled to begin on Nov. 30, with over 30 co-plaintiffs. Two weeks ago, Germany's Constitutional Court rejected Demjanjuk's final appeal against the opening of the proceedings.

Casting a Pall on the Proceedings

This paves the way for two men to meet in the Munich regional court -- men who both allegedly bear a similar burden of guilt: They purportedly helped the SS to commit mass murder, Demjanjuk as a simple Wachmann, or armed auxiliary recruit, and K. toward the end of his career in the camps as a slightly higher ranking Zugwachmann, or platoon member. But while one is sitting in the dock, the other will be called to take the witness stand.

The contradiction casts a pall on these proceedings....

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0...

I do not understand why all this bantering back and forth about a war that happened a generation ago and we have an enemy and enemies slipping into our United States daily. Whether John Demjanjuk is guilty or not, he does not have much longer on this earth so they, the German officials and judges, need to do what they are going to do. Execute him or turn him loose. If they don't do something quickly, the grim reaper will snatch him from them. I lived in my war for 33 years and I decided that's long enough. It is over for me. Oh well, it's not for me to decide. I'm watching the enemies gathering in our towns, cities and neighbourhoods, not some old man in Munich.