Bill to boost Mass. charter schools is on fast track

re history teacher wrote:

Charter school divide the scarse money. Economies of Scale- 2 libraries, 2 sports programs , 2 buildings, 2 janitors, etc.
Those that apply are mostly the premier students with active parents - Public schools are left with the poor performers, disinterested parents.
No one 'applies" to a public school as they do to parocial, private and charter schools- it's a two-tier system for the elite paid for with public funds nice scheme.

I think the issue with this debate is that people speak in generalities, when they have limited data. Data needs to go deeper than that found at any one school that you have experience with.

You should look into the "application" process - its generally no different than the paperwork required of district schools. "Applying" is like "signing up" - you sign up your child for kindergarten in a district school and then you don't have to think about it again. "Applying to a charter school" is just like that. But perhaps your experience has been with a charter school that is different than the "norm" in MA?

And my data (from one school) shows that charters serve a disproportionately more disadvantaged population. As a percentage of the student body, 43% more low-income students and 65% more special education students than the sending districts. 10% of students involved in foster care. I know this school is not serving the best and the brightest, though their MCAS scores are beginning to demonstrate a stronger academic program than the local schools...

Lola wrote:

The fact that charter school parents actively enter an enrollment lottery implies the kind of involvement in their children's development that makes a big difference...

I completely agree parents must be involved, but that is not the reason for the success of charters. A recent study compared students who got into charters several year ago vs. those who did not (i.e. 12,000 entered lotteries statewide for 3,000 charter seats). They found those who got into charters soon outperformed those who did not, despite both groups having "involved" parents:
(www.gse.harvard.edu/blog/news_features_releas... ).

Two important points on "involved" parents that many posters here miss; a high number of parents of children on IEP's and 504's enter charter lotteries because these schools offer more individualized instruction. In addition, most elementary charters offer 8 hr school days = do not have to pay for after-school child care. Can't blame them, but this does not really support the "involved parents" arguement.

re tellus33 wrote:

Whenever someone disagrees and has no particulars except generalizations , they ask the others where there " facts are". Since you did not provide any "facts", the teacher who actually works in the system everyday as opposed to you does not have to either.
Charter Schools divide the budget money and leave less for both systems..

I've taught in public and charter. The reality is charters work.

They DO NOT simply "divide money and leave less for both systems".
Educational funding in the US is 'PER STUDENT': if student X moves from a public school to a charter, the funds go to the school the student is attending. True their old public school no longer receives X student's funds BECAUSE THEY ARE NO LONGER EDUCATING HIM.
If you change from cable to dish, would you continue to send a check to comcast every month? No, because they are no longer supplying your house with cable. Same idea.

I beg to differ with you. SPED kids DO apply, and they DO go there. Check out the following link (you may have to type this in manually - I can't seem to get it by clicking)
http://www.doe.mass.edu/infoservices/reports/...
This report details SPED enrollment for regular public districts as well as Charter public schools. For just one example, compare Chelmsford, Lowell, and Billerica with Innovation Academy Charter School. You will see that there is a higher percentage of SPED kids at Innovation than at any of these towns (it's close for Billerica). These are the three main towns that send kids to Innovation. I know many SPED parents there, and they chose the Charter because it was better for their kids.

re GONZO wrote:

No Gonzo. I did not know that Charter Schools pick kids by lottery.
That means they are NOT required to take truants, poor performers, disciplinary problems , SPED kids UNLESS they APPLY( which they dont).
Public schools ARE REQUIRED to take EVERYONE.
How many trouble makers and SPED kids apply? my guess- close to NONE. Why dont you tell me how many SPED kids are enrolled.
Ergo, Gonzo: they are a pseudo- private rich kids school that the public pays for. But you already knew that.

It's also not noted that Charter Schools also have the ability to "unenroll" problem children. As a public school teacher, we get many students who were asked to "find a more appropriate placement". Meaning, take your problem child back to public school so we don't have to deal with him. If I, as a teacher, could simply toss out the students that are behavior challenges it would be a breeze to teach.

re GONZO wrote:

No Gonzo. I did not know that Charter Schools pick kids by lottery.
That means they are NOT required to take truants, poor performers, disciplinary problems , SPED kids UNLESS they APPLY( which they dont).
Public schools ARE REQUIRED to take EVERYONE.
How many trouble makers and SPED kids apply? my guess- close to NONE. Why dont you tell me how many SPED kids are enrolled.
Ergo, Gonzo: they are a pseudo- private rich kids school that the public pays for. But you already knew that.

Technical high schools don't take trouble makers either. They can pick and choose who they accept. It's not done by lottery. If you've had so many suspensions and your grades aren't good, you don't get in. And if you get in trouble, they kick you out, back to regular public school And our tax dollars pay for these schools too.

I've heard that sped kids to tend to apply to Charter schools and Tech schools because the regular HS programs are not very good. I know this is the case in Tyngsboro. Special Ed is almost non existant at Tyngsboro High. They lump them into one room all day combined with the kids who are not special ed but get in trouble all the time and are not passing. They call it "Pathways". It's the beginning of the end. No expectations, just keep them out of the way. Seperate pathways lunch, seperate pathways gym.

lhs mom wrote:

It's also not noted that Charter Schools also have the ability to "unenroll" problem children....

I've been teaching in a charter for 6 years and know of 1 student who left involuntarily: she is in a live-in facility for severe disabilties.

Let's move on from the us vs. them mentality: we are all educators. Charters have been around since 1995 and they work. Most charter teachers are rated "highly qualified" by the DESE and came from publics.

The "problem" is we are not union. Unions do good work, but on this they are guided solely by self interest. They trash charters, but at the same time approach charter teachers to join the union.. did you know that?

1. Would students benefit from a longer school day?
2. Would students benefit from smaller class sizes and individualized instruction?
3. Are unions the strongest opponent to charters?

At the end of the day charters directly benefit students and they should be supported.

* One piece we cannot overlook: an involved parent is the single-most important factor in a child's success.*

Bruce W Marien wrote:

<quoted text>
We have businesses in the USA that cannot find appropriately skilled help at a time when our unemployment rate is quite high. That leads to only one conclusion...our education systems didn't provide the training for the skillsets needed by our businesses.

I think your assertion could lead to many other conclusions not just "only one".

I'll start with some illogical ones since you got the ball rolling.

We have businesses in the USA that cannot find appropriately skilled help at a time when our unemployment rate is quite high. That leads to only one conclusion...our education system caused 9/11.....

OR

We have businesses in the USA that cannot find appropriately skilled help at a time when our unemployment rate is quite high. That leads to only one conclusion...our education systems caused global warming.

OR

We have businesses in the USA that cannot find appropriately skilled help at a time when our unemployment rate is quite high. That leads to only one conclusion...our education systems failed to prevent the swine flu epidemic.

Our local McDonald's can't find any qualified help either. Damn! I knew we should have fought harder for those fry cooking classes at the school board meeting....