Traffic lights eyed for junction

About time! This intersection has been a nightmare!! I'll bet there have been more prayers said there than at all the Bratt houses of worship combined.....

It would be easy task to do a computer simulation of the traffic patterns in this area.

http://www.sharedspace.eu/en

“Shared Space�

"Society should be organised to enable a human being to act as a responsible member of that society."

Why not get rid of all the traffic street lights on main street? It is the stupid traffic lights that cause the back ups.

Better yet.

How hard would it be to get the community involved in a grand scientific experiment…drag all the kids in school into the experiment….drag the whole community into solving their traffic issues. Propose that they are going to shutoff all the traffic lights in main street for a day or so…get them to measure what is going on now and then when the lights are out. Get them to predict what might occur…use science, math, computer and whatever else…drag down the state DOT guys to participle and education all the stake holders. Then shut off all the traffic lights and scientifically measure the actual results. Everyone in brattleboro is going to participate in the grand experiment.

You could also have another experiment with simulating the proposed lights…like a police officer with stop and go signs or such.

What about this interacting thing going on with the stakeholders, the kids, the media, the selectman and state and DOT people…isn’t every project a excuse for community building and learning, practicing in real life our educational skills, interpersonal skills, organization and communication skills.

Isn’t that how teaching in school should be taught?

Ok, so big deal you disrupt everyone from their stupid daily routines…lets mix it up.

Most of the traffic lights in American... sprawl...is because a business has more rights to define what flow of a street artery is than the community. In our democracy the traffic flow of consumers into a business take priority the needs of a community...indeed fair politics and transparency is completely overridden in the search for traffic flow into a business.

Anyways, the traffic lights reek of a special deal made with the selectman, the Co-Op and the Vermont DOT...we will build a new store if you will reconfigure the traffic in the intersection traffic to our advantage and clogg up the rest of the town. It is kind of surprising the natural foods Co-op...one who fights for a just cause and just community would pull the same traffic sprawling shenanigans as WalMart.

They are subverting the infrastructure framework of our community and living in a just community when they participate in political secret agendas and hidden agendas.

The facts are that new store and the apartments are going to draw in a lot more traffic...with the additional light making that area a nightmare of inner city traffic congestion. And the Co-op is going to steel side walk space from the community?

How come the intersection designs aren’t up on the internet or the Co-op’s web page?

This has the look of a typical top down political dictate of a powerful business interest. It is interesting how they playing off altruism with building low income housing as the means to push their business interest. WalMart has a lot to learn from these guys, using housing agencies and the altruism of helping low income residence to push a high profit business venture...WalMart should take this up!

mike mulligan wrote:

It would be easy task to do a computer simulation of the traffic patterns in this area.
http://www.sharedspace.eu/en
“Shared Space�
"Society should be organised to enable a human being to act as a responsible member of that society."
Why not get rid of all the traffic street lights on main street? It is the stupid traffic lights that cause the back ups.
Better yet.
How hard would it be to get the community involved in a grand scientific experiment…drag all the kids in school into the experiment….drag the whole community into solving their traffic issues. Propose that they are going to shutoff all the traffic lights in main street for a day or so…get them to measure what is going on now and then when the lights are out. Get them to predict what might occur…use science, math, computer and whatever else…drag down the state DOT guys to participle and education all the stake holders. Then shut off all the traffic lights and scientifically measure the actual results. Everyone in brattleboro is going to participate in the grand experiment.
You could also have another experiment with simulating the proposed lights…like a police officer with stop and go signs or such.
What about this interacting thing going on with the stakeholders, the kids, the media, the selectman and state and DOT people…isn’t every project a excuse for community building and learning, practicing in real life our educational skills, interpersonal skills, organization and communication skills.
Isn’t that how teaching in school should be taught?

(Better?)

It would be easy task to do a computer simulation of the traffic patterns in this area.

http://www.sharedspace.eu/en

“Shared Space”

"Society should be organized to enable a human being to act as a responsible member of that society."

Why not get rid of all the traffic street lights on main street? It is the stupid traffic lights that cause the back ups.

Better yet.

How hard would it be to get the community involved in a grand scientific experiment...drag all the kids in school into the experiment...drag the whole community into solving their traffic issues. Propose that they are going to shutoff all the traffic lights in main street for a day or so, get them to measure what is going on now and then when the lights are out. Get them to predict what might occur, use science, math, computer and whatever else, drag down the state DOT guys to participle and education all the stake holders. Then shut off all the traffic lights and scientifically measure the actual results. Everyone in Brattleboro is going to participate in the grand experiment.

You could also have another experiment with simulating the proposed lights, like a police officer with stop and go signs or such.

What about this interacting thing going on with the stakeholders, the kids, the media, the selectman and state and DOT people, isn’t every project a excuse for community building and learning, practicing in real life our educational skills, interpersonal skills, organization and communication skills.

Isn’t that how teaching in school should be taught?

"The facts are that new store and the apartments are going to draw in a lot more traffic...with the additional light making that area a nightmare of inner city traffic congestion"

And it is working well now without the lights? Ever crossed that intersection when a fully loaded Cersosimo truck decides that might makes right (of way)?

The Co-op isn't the problem. The problem is that many of our road and intersection configurations pre-date the automobile. I'm sure this intersection wasn't too much of a problem around 1840.

Towns grow- the road systems should grow with them. This intersection really can't be made physically larger but we can take some steps to make it a lot less exciting!

Granolacruncher wrote:

"The facts are that new store and the apartments are going to draw in a lot more traffic...with the additional light making that area a nightmare of inner city traffic congestion"
And it is working well now without the lights? Ever crossed that intersection when a fully loaded Cersosimo truck decides that might makes right (of way)?
The Co-op isn't the problem. The problem is that many of our road and intersection configurations pre-date the automobile. I'm sure this intersection wasn't too much of a problem around 1840.
Towns grow- the road systems should grow with them. This intersection really can't be made physically larger but we can take some steps to make it a lot less exciting!

Can you provide me any evidence with a pedestrian accident these cross walk.

Personally I use these cross walks all the time and everyone stops for me.

This is a classic case of altruism washing or abuse, I want to protect or help somebody else...but the real aim is a profit motive or advantage for me and it is discomfort to everyone else. The green or global warming boys are into the same thing.

Oh, I am going to get a lot of guff from this statement, but can you image the world we would live in if we had to organize our lives around those who had a obsession with fear on crossing a street.

Any scientific evidence that Brattleboro has a high proportion people who are too chicken to walk across a cross walk....how about polling of the residence, would you want traffic light here or a cross light.

So you got people who have a phobia of crossing a street...do you need a traffic light wherever they wanted to cross the street.

LOL I've never crossed that intersection on foot-it would probably be easier than in a car. Navigating it in a car for 12 years has given me about a dozen serious near-misses. The best one was when a lumber truck crossed the nose of my car- the wheels cleared me- the end of the bed went over my hood. Thank goodness I drive a tiny Toyota.

I think this is more about making the flow of vehicles work better. I wasn't even thinking about the pedestrians, sorry, I'm tired of playing chicken crossing this thing in a car!

You big baby< you need to hole up for the rest of you life in a dark room

You big baby; you need to hole up for the rest of you life in a dark room?

Hello Bob Audette,
---WOW---traffic lights at "Malfunction Junction"-----Personally, I hate the term:“Malfunction Junction”---it is a non-productive slander and disrespectful to the Community-at-large, and here-on-in I will refer to it as “Complex A”.
Is this an improvement--or what?
Traffic Lights at “Complex A” could be a correct move in the right direction, but MUCH MORE should be considered:
We all know that Traffic lights have been installed all up and down Main Street and Canal Street, but “Complex A” has been without any mechanical- or computer/radio- governing directors---and has been an on-going, complex problem.(More so at times when the inexperienced motorist first confronts it. One could enjoy a few entertaining minutes on a nice summer day when most car windows are rolled down and listen to the ‘un-constrained, eloquent exchanges' between motorists and/or pedestrians. This is a grand show of Disrespect for Fellow Human Beings In The Streets.)
Was it, in not-to-recent-past-times, that there have been all kinds of "plans" put forth or, and near, this “Complex A” of crossroads ("round-about", an "overpass" over the tracks, "replace-the-bridge" , etc.)---but alas, nothing---until NOW--an 'approved plan(?)' for downtown traffic lights at this point which are to be BOTH computer-radio-timed(?) and/or (manual?)-"video detection"
---WOW--that oughta take care of the whole thing---NOT-NOT-NOT.
The future traffic lights at “Complex A” would be a MORE workable solution and perhaps the ‘disrespectful name’ would DISAPPEAR shortly thereafter---if----
(A) An overpass, over the tracks, will take away back-ups caused by trains.
Is this a ‘workable and logical solution? Yes ____ No _____.
(B) A new bridge REPLACEMENT--right there where the OLD bridge is, but
slightly wider, and in an elevated position to connect to the overpass to Main Street,,,,
Is this a ‘workable and logical solution? Yes ____ No _____.
(C) Another, and an entirely new bridge proposed to go across river, further south from the
present bridge---to connect in with 142, perhaps with traffic lights crossing railroad
tracks and whatever other construction to make this feasible
Is this a ‘workable and logical solution? Yes ____ No _____.
(D) Do we need ANOTHER bridge between Vermont and New Hampshire?
Is this a ‘workable and logical solution? Yes ____ No _____.
(E) Would the downtown business area of Brattleboro thrive a little more if any of the above A, B, C, or
alternatively D were constructed?
Is this a ‘workable and logical solution? Yes ____ No _____.
A FINAL NOTE OF MY CONCERN:
I hope that the suggestions above are taken as 'constructive' and 'objective'---without any offensive remarks, insults, or construed to be degradable in any way. I believe if we, as an Intelligent Community, act as one and contribute our opinions and try to be effectively influential, so as to cause our community to become a more intelligent and a productive society---then we can, parallel with, and live in a land which our forefathers fought for and had the foresight to conceive. It is to often that we do NOT try to use intelligent ‘foresight’ but find it is easy to slur, disrepute, slander and libel without thinking. It takes intelligence of thought to effectively conceive, construct and then carry on productively.
If we strive to do this---then we are an important part of that great productive society that we are so proud of”---better known as America.
Think about it.
---Prof. Marley

The people coming from Hinsdale ignore the stop at the intersection. The pedestrians ignore the lights at the corners and cross at will. How is a traffic signal placed so close to railroad tracks going to solve anything? The solution should involve eliminating parking from Sam's on down. Make Flat street one way traffic beginning at Canal and Elliot street the opposite. Eliminate the first set of lights all together and add an extra traffic lane.

http://www.reformer.com/opinion/ci_13519951

New lights won’t ease
downtown gridlock

Editor of the Reformer:
I was interested to read that the Vermont Agency of Transportation thinks that a new set of traffic lights at "Malfunction Junction" in downtown Brattleboro will "alleviate traffic headaches and get traffic moving."

Does anyone remember that there used to be a set of traffic lights there, and that when they were working, the traffic backed up in all directions? People couldn’t help noticing that traffic moved much faster when the lights didn’t work, and eventually they were turned off, and finally removed.

The town even had a policeman standing on a little platform in the intersection directing traffic at rush hour, but even that slowed things down and was abandoned.

I predict that the AOT will be "surprised" when their very expensive project (complete with radio controls and video cameras) creates gridlock, and they will say: "the computer just needs a little adjustment;" but no matter how much they adjust the computer, the traffic will never move as well as it does now, and they won’t abandon the system because it cost so much.

With 700 state workers being laid off, and state services being severely cut, is this the best use of our money?

I like local words like “malfunction junction”...it fits perfectly with what is going on in it. So what is the history with how it came into use?

You need a local dictionary and the history with how words and phrases came into use.

Hmm, it not a endearing local name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfunction_Junc...

"Malfunction Junction" is a derisive nickname given by motorists to a confusing, dangerous, or otherwise problematic interchange. The name is generally applied to the following interchanges in the United States.

This scheme, I believe, will be a disaster. What is the difference between backups at the intersection and southbound traffic backed up on Main Street when trains approach? Will one malfunctioning light disrupt the entire system? What will be the annual cost of maintenance, and who will have to pay for it? Not to mention the fact that the required overhead cables will be an aesthetic nightmare.

Brattleboro should have put in a roundabout in that intersection when it had the chance. Roundabouts consume few resources, keep traffic flowing smoothly and slowly, reduce accidents and cut pollution. The success of the Putney Road roundabout should have been persuasive enough to silence the chorus of naysayers.

All this system will do is guarantee bad air and slow traffic. That crummy, unused little park isn't worth it.

Won’t you want to see a tractor trailer going around in that small circle?

Why not build a new entrance directly connected to south main street ...get that entrance away from the turn. Could put the entrance in where best muffler is...prettify that area by getting the muffler shop out of there and put in a more appropriate business or parking in there...it looks like a downtown junk yard in that section of town ...put them in on Putney road?

mike mulligan wrote:

Why not build a new entrance directly connected to south main street ...get that entrance away from the turn. Could put the entrance in where best muffler is...prettify that area by getting the muffler shop out of there and put in a more appropriate business or parking in there...it looks like a downtown junk yard in that section of town ...put them in on Putney road?

Best muffler:

http://maps.google.com/maps...

Doesn’t the co-op own this property...why not demolishes this and put the entrance in here.

http://maps.google.com/maps...

Stick the Co-op entrance right here and block off the the old one.