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May 19, 2009 | Posted by: Veritas_2009

Supreme Court to hear Mojave Desert Memorial Cross case

Full story: articles.latimes.com

On May 29th, the Supreme Court will hear the case of “ Salazar vs. Buono ” which will determine the fate of a 75 yr old cross erected by WW I Veterans atop Sunrise Rock, in what is now the Mojave Desert Preserve. Originally erected on land which was open range land, and free to public use; the cross was erected in memorial to those Veterans who’ve died serving their Country in war. However, since its inclusion in a 1994 land Federalization move by the Clinton administration, the presence of the cross has come under fire from the ACLU, which maintains it constitutes a Government endorsement of religion. At stake is the future of all such “religious displays” which occupy, or may soon occupy federalized lands. Defenders of the cross monument argue that both the antiquity, and the intent of the display do nothing to promote any religious group over another, but merely respectfully acknowledges the supreme sacrifice paid by so many Veterans in defense of the Nation. The use of a cross is an innocuous accommodation to the reality that most of those veterans were adherents to one form of Christian faith or another, and not an advocacy of Christianity itself. Filing suit against the display is a former Nation Park Service worker Frank Buono, who now resides in Oregon, far from the offending display. The precedent set in this case may well affect all such displays deemed “religious”, and in violation of the current interpretation of the “establishment clause”. Will Arlington National Cemetery be next…? The Washington Memorial?

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Marilyn

Providence, RI

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#1
Jun 8, 2009
 

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I find it to be a huge waste of money and time to bicker about a cross out in the dessert.
Tom Hart 29 Palms

Palm Springs, CA

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#2
Jun 21, 2009
 

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I find it extremely upsetting that one individual who lives nowhere near this cross can cause such havoc...He obviously is of questionable parentage and lacks any compassion for those who have given him the right to voice his opinion.....I wish him all the ill fate possible....

“Stomping Liberals!”

Joined: Apr 17, 2009

Comments: 115

SoCal

ISP: Victorville, CA

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#3
Jun 29, 2009
 

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Marilyn wrote:
I find it to be a huge waste of money and time to bicker about a cross out in the dessert.
How is it that we've come to the place where the voicing of legitimate dissent, may be classified as mere "bickering"?
Should citizens just silently stand by and watch as their Country is systematically stripped & censored from it's historic expressions of faith & honor?
Just what kind of world would you have us live in?
Carl

Ypsilanti, MI

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#4
Jul 11, 2009
 

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If it is to be a WAR Memorial then it should have the symbols of all faiths that have fought and died for this country.
Tim H

El Salto, Mexico

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#5
Jul 20, 2009
 

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Do we have to take the crosses out of Arlington National Cemetery as well?
The Constitution has a prohibition against the government endorsing A Single Religion. It does NOT PROHIBIT any religion! In fact, religion in general is in the best interests of the government as acknowledged officially many times and in many ways since the founding of this country.
The ACLU can go pound sand. Acknowledgement of “religion” is firmly established and protected by the constitution.
Leonard LA

Ringgold, LA

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#6
Jul 26, 2009
 

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Marilyn wrote:
"I find it to be a huge waste of money and time to bicker about a cross out in the dessert."
It's not just a "Cross" in the desert...it's a line in the sand concerning your and my freedom of speech, freedom of religious expression, and freedom period. If no one stands up for the Cross in the desert or the screem in the dark we all lose and lose big.
Sick of right wing idiots

United States

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#7
Jul 29, 2009
 

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F that lousy cross, it's not a memorial and it is not reflective of those who serve. Christians think they can take over the world but they have LOST! How does it feel? If you don't like it move to Texas you rednecks!
Served Proudly

Bakersfield, CA

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#8
Aug 2, 2009
 

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Sick of right wing idiots wrote:
F that lousy cross, it's not a memorial and it is not reflective of those who serve. Christians think they can take over the world but they have LOST! How does it feel? If you don't like it move to Texas you rednecks!
Someone abviously didn't love you enough to make such a harsh comment. How would like it if I told you get your butt back on the boat you came from?
Seeing how it was faith that brought Christian here and fought hard to protect everyones rights to their faith and how we want to display them. I would like to know how the folks at the ACLU practice their faith, that might be very interesting.
Sick of right wing

United States

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#9
Aug 2, 2009
 

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My comment was excessively harsh and incendiary and I apologize. It does no good for anyone to act like that. However your comment highlights my precise complaint. Yes Christians fought for our rights, but so did Jews, Atheists, Buddists, Muslims etc. This cross seems to be more a symbol of values than a memorial to WWI vets. Christianity has no flaws, however many Christians in this country are Republicans first. Yes abortion should be illegal by the teachings in the Bible, however war should be avoided, schools funded, the environment saved and the poor held up by these same teachings. The first value is a Republican value, the last four were Democratic values. Chirstians in the US today seem to forget that neither party follows the Bible entirely and to be Christlike one cannot pledge allegiance to either political party. I feel like this cross is a political statement more than a memorial, I could be wrong.
Served Proudly

Denver, CO

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#10
Aug 11, 2009
 

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Sick of right wing wrote:
My comment was excessively harsh and incendiary and I apologize. It does no good for anyone to act like that. However your comment highlights my precise complaint. Yes Christians fought for our rights, but so did Jews, Atheists, Buddists, Muslims etc. This cross seems to be more a symbol of values than a memorial to WWI vets. Christianity has no flaws, however many Christians in this country are Republicans first. Yes abortion should be illegal by the teachings in the Bible, however war should be avoided, schools funded, the environment saved and the poor held up by these same teachings. The first value is a Republican value, the last four were Democratic values. Chirstians in the US today seem to forget that neither party follows the Bible entirely and to be Christlike one cannot pledge allegiance to either political party. I feel like this cross is a political statement more than a memorial, I could be wrong.
You made some very good points and everyone has the rights to their opinions. Yet to say the first value is Republican value and the rest are Democratic values. You’re kind of classifying religious values by politics, which is disturbing. And who are YOU to say the last four values are just Democratic? I know plenty of Democrats who can careless about new life, religion and care more about money as long as it doesn't come out of their pockets. I will always pledge allegiance to GOD and Country, even if that means protecting your rights.
Chuck

Youngtown, AZ

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#11
Aug 17, 2009
 

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And it reads:"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I really can't see the basis for all this First Amendment controversy. It plainly says, "Congress shall make NO LAW" It doesn't say that you can't plant a cross out in the desert on government -OR- private land. That in NO WAY makes or creates a "LAW". What is displayed in the Desert is an instrument of very inhumane cruelty and torture. The Romans used that cross to ensure that the populace obeyed followed their rules. Somehow it became a revered symbol of Christianity. This seems in violation of the Second commandment:
4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
6. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
So, since the cross is NOT a Law being created AND it is against the Lord God's will for it to be worshiped, I really believe we are all getting riled up over nothing.
wordsnotwisdom

AOL

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#12
Aug 19, 2009
 
Get real here....When 99.9 percent of the public sees a cross they dont see a Roman instrument of very inhuman cruelty and torture they see a religious symbol. In your endeavour to make a legal definition that has nothing to do with religion your going wayyyy to far out on a limb. Suffice to say that State supreme courts all across the country regularly dismiss these types of cases (such as Ten Commandment displays) as having no merit. And dont start stating commandments with your legalise induced postings. The two dont go together. Your over intellectualizing this into tedium.
Joseph

Manahawkin, NJ

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#13
Aug 31, 2009
 
Those of you here who say the Cross she not be the symbol to represent and honor our veterans because it is not inclusive of the religious beliefs of all who sacrificed are forgetting that no one has said a Menorah or any other religious symbol could not be placed there. The issue is some yahoo from hundreds of miles away wants NO religious symbol ANYWHERE on government land.

I Feel sure there would be no objection from the folks who placed the Cross there if someone wanted a Menorah placed beside it.
Aine

Dublin, Ireland

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#14
Sep 17, 2009
 
This is political correctioness gone mad!
Delores from Warren MI

Sugar Land, TX

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#15
Sep 17, 2009
 
Aine wrote:
This is political correctioness gone mad!
I couldn't agree more. And the taxpayers are PAYING for this!
Roger

Seattle, WA

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#16
Oct 4, 2009
 
Its a good question that needs to be cleared up. For those who say that people should just put of a star of David or other symbols, the Park Service will not allow it, and that is part of the question. If only the cross gets to stand, is the government taking sides with one religion over others since the rules do not allow other faiths to put up their signs. Do we really want a big spaghetti monster up there on the rock and hundreds of other religious symbols?

For those literalists who say this isn't about a law: rules and regulations promulgated by the US Government have the weight of law, and thus are covered by the Establishment clause. Does 75 years make it exempt? Does annexation make it exempt? I'm glad the court is hearing this one.
Terra

Fort Collins, CO

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#17
Oct 5, 2009
 
Simple, why does the cross offend you, if it doesn't mean anything to you just leave it alone. For some of us it is a symbol of a sacrifice made for us, not unlike the sacrfice this brave men and women of all faiths made for our country. Crosses have long been tied to memorializing that very thing. For those who don't believe, then take it as a memorial, to those that do, take it as a place to thank God that we do have the freedom of religion, and the right to express it.
Kirk

Bel Air, MD

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#18
Oct 6, 2009
 
Unbelievable. Anyone who claims the mere sight of a cross offends them is mental. It can NOT hurt you in any way. What is with people claiming they are offended by every damn thing? And to cater to just one individual is rediculous. Nowhere does it say you have the right to not be offended. What kills me is I'm not even a real religious person and it matters none to me that there is a cross in the middle of the desert. Hell, put one in my office on the wall. These people are warped.
Russ

Portland, OR

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#19
Oct 6, 2009
 
All I can say is Frank Buono and the ACLU can take a hike. And to you Frank buono if had any guts what so ever come out in public and share your displeasure. Instead of hiding behind all of the ACLU punks.And yes I am a Christian and believe we should care more for our brave warriors than some moron who takes offense to simple cross. To give thanks to our fallen brave soldiers.
Roger

Seattle, WA

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#20
Oct 6, 2009
 
A few friends and I have decided to place a large sign with a verse from the Quran right next to the cross to honor our brave soldiers who are are Muslim who have fought for us in the Middle East wars. Since most of you who have responded believe in freedom of religious expression so much, I am sure you will approve of this action.
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