“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#244 Jun 13, 2012
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion teaches us to be satisfied with nonanswers and with lies. It expects, nay DEMANDS that we throw critical thinking to the wind and accept things on "blind faith".
Since you cannot prove non-existence, you must also accept on blind that God does not exist, no?
It is divisive, hate-filled and is single-handedly responsible for the wholesale slaughter of countless men, women, children and animals. It teaches that it is fine to destroy the planet because, after all we won't be here much longer. It offers solace in time of sorrow, but that solace is fake and hollow.
Shall I go on preaching the "virtues" of religion?
I'm not arguing for religion, I'm arguing parental rights and the definition of child abuse.
So you tell me... Why is it NOT abuse?
Because you cannot prove (to any standard of logic, let alone due process) that those parents are doing anything wrong. Would you like someone defining what you teach your child as abuse without having to prove it?
Oh, and they already DO want to, and in some states DO control it. By teaching "creationism" in the classroom (I'm looking at you Kansas).
Nice try, but no, that's what the SCHOOL teaches. You were seeking to control what the PARENTS teach their child. Try again.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#245 Jun 13, 2012
The Heathen wrote:
As for "what should we assume..." Ask a question that is worthy of answer instead of trying to play word games.
The questions I asked were legitimate and genuine. If you're going to propose that kind of intrusion into parental rights, you'd better have some rock solid proof that they are doing something wrong, not merely a "non-belief" in what they are teaching their children. I'm not all that keen on "religion" myself, but I'll be damned if I'm going to try to force my beliefs or non-beliefs onto all parents. Suggest, certainly. Lead by example, preferably. But not force unless it's absolutely certain that someone is causing demonstrable harm.

That's the only thing this is about. I am EXTREMELY keen on violations to peoples' liberty. Unless you can prove that what someone is doing is harming someone or violating a superior right, you should not try to prohibit what that someone is doing.

(It is this principle that has us agreeing in the police chief thread... Think about it.)

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#246 Jun 13, 2012
not to mention the gay marriage thread...

Since: Jan 12

Chillicothe, OH

#247 Jun 13, 2012
Okay here is how I see it. I was raised in the church I left at 13 by my own choice! I have seen posts from BOTH sides that I agree upon. However, religion to me is a feeling not a damn book! If you open yourself up you can feel a presence with you!!! I don't give a damn what you are or who you are! If you have NEVER prayed then try meditation! You can "Center" yourself in many different ways. I asked this question, because I was truly conflicted. I have no business to butt in, yet there are 2 grown children involved. I am almost as confused as they are sadly.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#248 Jun 13, 2012
classychazy wrote:
Okay here is how I see it. I was raised in the church I left at 13 by my own choice!
Similar here.
I have seen posts from BOTH sides that I agree upon. However, religion to me is a feeling not a damn book! If you open yourself up you can feel a presence with you!!! I don't give a damn what you are or who you are! If you have NEVER prayed then try meditation! You can "Center" yourself in many different ways. I asked this question, because I was truly conflicted. I have no business to butt in, yet there are 2 grown children involved. I am almost as confused as they are sadly.
To me, religion is simply man trying to explain God. It's bound to be imperfect, as all of man's works are. Some (incorrectly in my opinion) try to use it as a bludgeon on others. Of course, some non-religious people try to use their non-religion as a bludgeon on others too.

My take is that we don't need no damned bludgeons! If you can't convince someone without the use of force, maybe you should examine your convincing skills, or your ideas themselves, or just "live and let live".
Man

Wapakoneta, OH

#249 Jun 13, 2012
undefined apathy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you be teaching a 1-2 yr old anything besides speech? how to go the bathroom? ect...why would you be teaching religion to a 1-2yr old? That doesn't make much sense.
0.o
Children aren't property, they are humans, and they have a right to be given options and not just force fed what their parents want them to think. I don't condone brain washing.
Education is brainwashing into society's belief system enforced by law.
Well

Waverly, OH

#250 Jun 13, 2012
undefined apathy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you be teaching a 1-2 yr old anything besides speech? how to go the bathroom? ect...why would you be teaching religion to a 1-2yr old? That doesn't make much sense.
0.o
Children aren't property, they are humans, and they have a right to be given options and not just force fed what their parents want them to think. I don't condone brain washing.
It is called parental rights. Remember when you are so eager to take away one's rights yours might be on the line next.
Suppose we pass a law that says if you teach your kids that being gay is ok that you are brainwashing them? It's a slippery scope when ones rights are taken away, first they came for XXXXX, are you next?
Well

Waverly, OH

#251 Jun 13, 2012
Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Education is brainwashing into society's belief system enforced by law.
We see what the last 20 years of the indoctrination has lead too.

Since: Jan 12

Chillicothe, OH

#252 Jun 13, 2012
Well wrote:
<quoted text>We see what the last 20 years of the indoctrination has lead too.
What evolution?
Well

Waverly, OH

#253 Jun 13, 2012
classychazy wrote:
<quoted text>
What evolution?
A bunch of worthless 20 year olds that think they are entitled to the world. The world owes them a living just because they were born. They won't work, do drugs, commit crimes,shootings in schools, parents and teachers are not allowed to discipline them, there are no consequences for their actions, never accept responsibility for their actions, it's always someone else s fault.Just a few thoughts there are lots more. To sum it up they are worthless. A few, very few, do good but not many.

“Dancing with the devil”

Since: May 12

...Dreaming of angels

#254 Jun 13, 2012
Well wrote:
<quoted text>It is called parental rights. Remember when you are so eager to take away one's rights yours might be on the line next.
Suppose we pass a law that says if you teach your kids that being gay is ok that you are brainwashing them? It's a slippery scope when ones rights are taken away, first they came for XXXXX, are you next?
I'm not saying infringe upon parental rights, I'm saying recognize a child's rights. A child has a right to understand the whole picture and not just the peices of the puzzle the parents want to the child to see. children aren't property.
seriously?

Chillicothe, OH

#255 Jun 14, 2012
Well wrote:
<quoted text>A bunch of worthless 20 year olds that think they are entitled to the world. The world owes them a living just because they were born. They won't work, do drugs, commit crimes,shootings in schools, parents and teachers are not allowed to discipline them, there are no consequences for their actions, never accept responsibility for their actions, it's always someone else s fault.Just a few thoughts there are lots more. To sum it up they are worthless. A few, very few, do good but not many.
Oh you're one of those.*eyeroll*
You're right, change is bad. The world is worse off. Let's go to the 50's. Etc.

Since: Feb 12

Waverly, OH

#256 Jun 14, 2012
[QUOTE who="seriously?"] <quoted text>
Oh you're one of those.*eyeroll*
You're right, change is bad. The world is worse off. Let's go to the 50's. Etc.[/QUOTE]

Yes, lets go back to 50's where kids were taught to respect their elders, yes sir, yes mam. They were taught that if you want something, you earn it, and not think you owe it to them.
There are a lot of good kids out there today, I personally know some, and I know some that need a type of boot camp. There is no worthless child, they can be turned around, but that can be a challenge when mom and dad hand over money without earning it. Kids don't want to work any more and when they do, they think they can pick and choose the job and come and go when they please.
30-40 years ago, farmers had to turn young men away asking to work, such as hay baling, now it's very rare to find a 16-19 year old that can even pick up a bale of hay because all they do is play video games.
I ask my youngest to do something for me one time, they said, OK, if you pay me. I said, sure, I can pay you, and out of that you can pay me 1/5 of the water and electric bill, and pay for your meals. I got a very blank stare and a, "that's not fair", after thinking about for a while the attitude changed and never heard the, OK, if you pay me, any more.
The Heathen

United States

#257 Jun 14, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you cannot prove non-existence, you must also accept on blind that God does not exist, no?
Following this logic, should I then also accept that Superman, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Shiva, and the Celestial teapot also exist, and adjust my life accordingly? How about Nu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? There is as much "evidence" (using you criteria-lack of evidence to the opposition-for the existence of each of these things) you cannot accept the lack of evidence disproving as the presence of evidence proving. That is illogical and irrational.
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not arguing for religion, I'm arguing parental rights and the definition of child abuse
Children are not property. Abusing them, and teaching them that you should NOT use your brain to think and question, teaching them that hating someone for the color of skin, place of birth, gender, orientation...because the "big g" (regardless of the name or religion) IS wrong and should be controlled. And this is what religion does.
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you cannot prove (to any standard of logic, let alone due process) that those parents are doing anything wrong.
Teaching bigotry, willful ignorance and telling them to accept that they are horrible sinners worthy of death IS abuse. It just isn't widely recognized as such.... Yet.
TonyD2 wrote:
Would you like someone defining what you teach your child as abuse without having to prove it?
If what I was teaching my child was as pernicious and dangerous as religious ideology...then, yeah. I would certainly want someone to put an end to that.
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try, but no, that's what the SCHOOL teaches. You were seeking to control what the PARENTS teach their child. Try again.
I recommend the movie "Jesus Camp" for a glimpse of how parents fuck their kids up, using school approved "teaching" and curriculum.
The Heathen

United States

#258 Jun 14, 2012
Keeper of the Flame wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, lets go back to 50's where kids were taught to respect their elders, yes sir, yes mam. They were taught that if you want something, you earn it, and not think you owe it to them.
There are a lot of good kids out there today, I personally know some, and I know some that need a type of boot camp. There is no worthless child, they can be turned around, but that can be a challenge when mom and dad hand over money without earning it. Kids don't want to work any more and when they do, they think they can pick and choose the job and come and go when they please.
30-40 years ago, farmers had to turn young men away asking to work, such as hay baling, now it's very rare to find a 16-19 year old that can even pick up a bale of hay because all they do is play video games.
I ask my youngest to do something for me one time, they said, OK, if you pay me. I said, sure, I can pay you, and out of that you can pay me 1/5 of the water and electric bill, and pay for your meals. I got a very blank stare and a, "that's not fair", after thinking about for a while the attitude changed and never heard the, OK, if you pay me, any more.
As parents, it is our job to care for our children. It is our job to provide their meals, their clothes, their shelter. If they do work for us, something above the normal chores, they SHOULD BE paid. This teaches them about working for pay, gives them a sense of pride and allows them to get money for that new video game (or what the hell ever) without having to just "get money from" mom/dad.
Well

Waverly, OH

#259 Jun 14, 2012
undefined apathy wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not saying infringe upon parental rights, I'm saying recognize a child's rights. A child has a right to understand the whole picture and not just the peices of the puzzle the parents want to the child to see. children aren't property.
Yes that is exactly what you are saying to take away parental rights.
I don't know where you come up with the property crap.
Parent's are responsible for their children until they reach adulthood (18).
They are then free to move out on their own and do as they please.
You are one of the spoiled ones that still lives with a family member sucking off them instead of going out on your own. They pay for your upkeep, yet you think you have rights to do as you please in their home. You are not special nor are you entitled to anything unless you obtain it on your own. Go out and get your own home buy your own groceries and pay your own electric bill then you can do as you please. You are 20 it's time to grow up and stop being a sponge baby.
Man

Wapakoneta, OH

#260 Jun 14, 2012
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
As parents, it is our job to care for our children. It is our job to provide their meals, their clothes, their shelter. If they do work for us, something above the normal chores, they SHOULD BE paid. This teaches them about working for pay, gives them a sense of pride and allows them to get money for that new video game (or what the hell ever) without having to just "get money from" mom/dad.
If you are going to treat your children like employees as a life lesson then dont forget the taxes..utility bills..rent..insurance..gas costs..
When you are dont they will owe you for the work they do because the minimum wage will not cover the costs. They will be your indentured servants.
Dont forget to tell them that your NWO of thinking has removed jobs that they can do...paper routes..lawn jobs..weed pulling..snow shoveling..At the same time, they are encouraged to do volunteer work for society. In other words, Your NWO theory wants to brainwash them into work for free.

Why not teach them the truth? Show them how parents donate 18-25 years of servitude to give up dreams and health to raise them? The truth that those video games and internet and TV are just electronic baby sitters used by parents to not have to deal with teaching or raising or being a part of their lives on a daily basis. Teach them how the NWO wants people to stay at home unless they are spending money at Walmart or the gas station. People are better consumers if they stay at home and plug in. The NWO can then force parent to accept low wages and work two -three jobs.
With your style of rearing, Kids won't have any self identity and cannot even build a model car...make a kite..repair a bike..
Everything must come from Ma and pa so when they enter the real world they have learned that everything must come from nanny states if they can even deal with the real world, then wonder why crime is a large part of life now.
According to the law, you are encouraged to keep your kids indoors and out of public. You are abusive if you force..You are neglecting if you deny..you are upstanding if your kids are so meek and weak in appearance that they are nearly transparent from lack of sun. The NWO wants dependance..
If you have two hands..two feet.. and can understand directions..you are responsible for helping out in the struggle of life. Not the struggle of a video controller...A remote..or a keyboard...
When a child demands pay for household duties.. find them a chair to sit in for the entire day with no activity other than staring at a corner of a wall. If you need above chore work then explain what you want done ONE time. If your child refuses, then punish them. You think this is unfair or bad? The spankings that the real world dish out are not child rearing they are do or be punished. If you are told to do what your employer wants and you refuse then you lose your employment. If you cannot craft some of your needs you will further your employment slavery to buy your needs. If you cannot...you will pay through enslavement or incarceration. If you refuse to follow orders from a man with a badge you will get the stick or a taser or a knuckle sandwich...maybe even a lead taco.
That is the real world. It is the responsibility of parents to peel back the veil of never never land to prepare kids for real life. Teach them responsibility to family needs. Teach them to take orders..follow direction without argument.
When a family member is in need to step up to the plate without requiring a paycheck or join the lemmings that your NWO thinking of dependance to government wants..

Religion and requirements to attend church is not abuse. Your lack of is neglect...
Well

Waverly, OH

#261 Jun 14, 2012

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#262 Jun 14, 2012
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
Following this logic, should I then also accept that Superman, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Shiva, and the Celestial teapot also exist, and adjust my life accordingly? How about Nu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
You can accept what you wish, and allow others to do the same, as long as they do not harm you or violate a superior right of yours.
There is as much "evidence" (using you criteria-lack of evidence to the opposition-for the existence of each of these things) you cannot accept the lack of evidence disproving as the presence of evidence proving. That is illogical and irrational.
So is accepting absence of evidence as evidence of absence.
Children are not property.
Agreed, but society has determined that parents have rights in regards to their children.
Abusing them,
Child abuse is a CRIME. Accusations of crime require PROOF of specific actions that cause harm.
and teaching them that you should NOT use your brain to think and question, teaching them that hating someone for the color of skin, place of birth, gender, orientation...because the "big g" (regardless of the name or religion) IS wrong and should be controlled. And this is what religion does.

Funny. Nobody taught me any of those things. I think you are profiling based on what some PEOPLE do.

[QUOTE]Teaching bigotry, willful ignorance and telling them to accept that they are horrible sinners worthy of death IS abuse. It just isn't widely recognized as such.... Yet.
Do probable cause, beyond a reasonable doubt, etc., mean anything to you?
If what I was teaching my child was as pernicious and dangerous as religious ideology...then, yeah. I would certainly want someone to put an end to that.
What if the majority claimed it was, but you "knew" it wasn't. Would you simply lay down for the whim of the masses? Or would you demand that they PROVE that what you were doing was wrong? It seems like you're for control, just with different masters.
I recommend the movie "Jesus Camp" for a glimpse of how parents fuck their kids up, using school approved "teaching" and curriculum.
So you choose an extreme example and present it as how all religious parents raise their children?(And you accuse THEM of bigotry...)
seriously?

Chillicothe, OH

#263 Jun 14, 2012
Christian Logic:
Complain about non-Christians taking away parenting rights.
Complain that people are raising there kids wrong nowadays.

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