CASEY: Does the State have the goods?

Learned Hand 11 I enjoyed what you had to say about the Zenaida defense vs. the mental incapacity defense. I would like to offer an opinion from the perspective of an average citizen with no legal training or background. Although the jury has specific instructions, jury members do not think like attorneys. They will make their decision based on emotion and common sense. Jurors know the victim is a two and a half year old girl and most of them will have children, grandchildren, nephews, nieces or brothers and sisters Caylee’s age. So they will be sympathetic with the victim.

The Zenaida defense will insure a guilty verdict because it doesn’t make sense. Pointing the finger at an innocent person will just anger the jury. Unless the state and defense psychiatrists both agree to the DID diagnosis, I don’t see a jury buying it. If the state psychiatrist says Casey is a sociopath or psychopath, the DID defense will go down the toilet. Jury members know the state psychiatrist is going to slant his or her diagnosis to fit the defense theory. Another problem with the insanity defense is the defense has to prove Casey didn’t know right from wrong when she murdered Caylee. The bigger hurdle is Casey has to admit guilt and that she is insane. For a year she has been claiming she is innocent and sane. Crazy people rarely admit they are crazy. They believe they are sane and everybody else is crazy.

The problem with the accident theory is the chloroform saturated trunk, the duct tape over the mouth and the methodical way the body was packaged and tossed out. It shows pre-meditation or aggravated child abuse. If the defense is going to say Casey put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth after death to stage the scene so it looked like a kidnapping, that indicates the behavior of a sociopath, not a mentally ill person who has flipped out and is acting without thinking. The heart sticker doesn’t show remorse to me. It just shows Casey’s signature. She put heart stickers on her pets when she buried them. Since she can’t bond and feel the normal feelings a mother feels, that is the closest she came to expressing love.

I think Casey's best chance is to plead guilty to aggravated child abuse and aggravated homicide of a child and the four counts of lying to police. Her explanation could be that she couldn't afford a nanny since she didn't work so when she partied and couldn’t get Cindy or George to babysit, she chloroformed Caylee and put her in the car trunk. She could say she didn’t mean to kill Caylee but that she was upset over the fight with Cindy and Caylee was screaming for her grandma and she needed to think so she duct taped her and chloroformed her and put her in the car trunk. When she found the dead body in the trunk, she tried to bury it in the back yard but realized it might be dug up by the Anthony dogs so she left it in the trunk until she couldn’t stand the smell and George almost found it so she dumped the body and ditched the car. The state may accept that explanation to avoid an expensive trial and a circus.

The defense team should forget about all the publicity the high profile case will bring to them and do what is best for their client. They should also listen to the bloggers and not try to change their opinions because the jury is an average Joe who is going to think just like we do. We may soften against the defense if they’d quit treating us like we are brain washed cult members of Nancy Grace. I hope my opinion is accepted as just as valid as the attorneys since it reflects the thinking of the public from where the jury will come. Her fate will be in the hand of people like me, not the attorneys.

Sally, Post # 690 is excellent. Great job!

Learned Hand II wrote:

<quoted text>
You are missing the point:
That said, I somewhat understand your strong feelings, but they have no place in a courtroom until the allowable evidence has been heard.

No your missing the point! This is nothing but a public forum where all people can post their thoughts and feelings!
THIS IS NOT A COURT ROOM, NOR A CLASS ROOM, WE DON'T NEED A GRADE OR CORRECTIONS ON WHAT WE POST! No one comes here to get an education! So no need for TEACHERS .

ALL OF US wrote:

<quoted text>
No your missing the point! This is nothing but a public forum where all people can post their thoughts and feelings!
THIS IS NOT A COURT ROOM, NOR A CLASS ROOM, WE DON'T NEED A GRADE OR CORRECTIONS ON WHAT WE POST! No one comes here to get an education! So no need for TEACHERS .

Ditto. If you attorneys would stop acting like you were superior in intelligence to the rest of the human race and stop treating the public like idiots, we would have more respect for defense attorneys.

Correction: In my #690 post, I meant to say the defense psychiatrist is going to slant his or her diagnosis to fit the defense theory.

ALL OF US wrote:

<quoted text>
No your missing the point! This is nothing but a public forum where all people can post their thoughts and feelings!
THIS IS NOT A COURT ROOM, NOR A CLASS ROOM, WE DON'T NEED A GRADE OR CORRECTIONS ON WHAT WE POST! No one comes here to get an education! So no need for TEACHERS .

At the risk of being berated again, Learned Hand is not wrong. Please refer to the first post on this thread.

This thread was created to discuss the case; to separate facts from fiction and to dispel the rumors running rampant on most other message boards.

The purpose is to educate and correct the record in an effort to examine the facts of this case through unbiased eyes and to discuss the evidence and subsequent legal issues.

There are thousands of other sites where emotions rule the day; this is not one of them. No one has to agree with the stated purpose of this thread, but if you post here, please be advised that we will continue to maintain it's theme, even if that unintentionally offends anyone.

Sally wrote:

Learned Hand 11 I enjoyed what you had to say about the Zenaida defense vs. the mental incapacity defense. I would like to offer an opinion from the perspective of an average citizen with no legal training or background. Although the jury has specific instructions, jury members do not think like attorneys. They will make their decision based on emotion and common sense. Jurors know the victim is a two and a half year old girl and most of them will have children, grandchildren, nephews, nieces or brothers and sisters Caylee’s age. So they will be sympathetic with the victim.
The Zenaida defense will insure a guilty verdict because it doesn’t make sense. Pointing the finger at an innocent person will just anger the jury. Unless the state and defense psychiatrists both agree to the DID diagnosis, I don’t see a jury buying it. If the state psychiatrist says Casey is a sociopath or psychopath, the DID defense will go down the toilet. Jury members know the state psychiatrist is going to slant his or her diagnosis to fit the defense theory. Another problem with the insanity defense is the defense has to prove Casey didn’t know right from wrong when she murdered Caylee. The bigger hurdle is Casey has to admit guilt and that she is insane. For a year she has been claiming she is innocent and sane. Crazy people rarely admit they are crazy. They believe they are sane and everybody else is crazy.
The problem with the accident theory is the chloroform saturated trunk, the duct tape over the mouth and the methodical way the body was packaged and tossed out. It shows pre-meditation or aggravated child abuse. If the defense is going to say Casey put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth after death to stage the scene so it looked like a kidnapping, that indicates the behavior of a sociopath, not a mentally ill person who has flipped out and is acting without thinking. The heart sticker doesn’t show remorse to me. It just shows Casey’s signature. She put heart stickers on her pets when she buried them. Since she can’t bond and feel the normal feelings a mother feels, that is the closest she came to expressing love.
I think Casey's best chance is to plead guilty to aggravated child abuse and aggravated homicide of a child and the four counts of lying to police. Her explanation could be that she couldn't afford a nanny since she didn't work so when she partied and couldn’t get Cindy or George to babysit, she chloroformed Caylee and put her in the car trunk. She could say she didn’t mean to kill Caylee but that she was upset over the fight with Cindy and Caylee was screaming for her grandma and she needed to think so she duct taped her and chloroformed her and put her in the car trunk. When she found the dead body in the trunk, she tried to bury it in the back yard but realized it might be dug up by the Anthony dogs so she left it in the trunk until she couldn’t stand the smell and George almost found it so she dumped the body and ditched the car. The state may accept that explanation to avoid an expensive trial and a circus......"

Good post. I however, do not see Casey pleading to even a parking ticket unless she is acquitted in this case. That said, if that happens, she will most likely make a deal on those other charges that are not a part of her indictment to something like time served, a short trip to prison to get a number, and she will be a convicted felon, just not the felony conviction that the public desired.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories...
Autopsy report posted.

chuckycheez_68 wrote:

<quoted text>
Good post. I however, do not see Casey pleading to even a parking ticket unless she is acquitted in this case. That said, if that happens, she will most likely make a deal on those other charges that are not a part of her indictment to something like time served, a short trip to prison to get a number, and she will be a convicted felon, just not the felony conviction that the public desired.

I agree it is unlikely she will plea unless she believes she will get the death sentence. We know the sentence for first degree murder is life in prison without parole or the death penalty. Does anyone know the sentences in Florida for aggravated child abuse, aggravated homicide of a child, and four counts of lying to police?

Sally wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree it is unlikely she will plea unless she believes she will get the death sentence. We know the sentence for first degree murder is life in prison without parole or the death penalty. Does anyone know the sentences in Florida for aggravated child abuse, aggravated homicide of a child, and four counts of lying to police?

I am not sure of the penalties for those charges, but I don't think it makes much difference, as those would probably be ran concurrently with the sentence for the murder charge. I don't think she would plead to a life sentence (I sure would not) here, it is all or nothing. Casey would have better conditions of confinement for a death sentence as opposed to a life sentence.

ALL OF US wrote:

<quoted text>
No your missing the point! This is nothing but a public forum where all people can post their thoughts and feelings!
THIS IS NOT A COURT ROOM, NOR A CLASS ROOM, WE DON'T NEED A GRADE OR CORRECTIONS ON WHAT WE POST! No one comes here to get an education! So no need for TEACHERS .

I hope they dont come on and try to explain what the report means!( after the look up all the big words LOL ) I hate it when show -offs try to impress everyone. But we all know they will!

Learned Hand II wrote:

<quoted text>
You are missing the point: An individual defendant is not important in the grand scheme, but the Constitutional isues certainly are, and the media's use of the Sunshine Law in this case is (in my experience) unprecedented in Florida.
You and your brethren are emotionally fixated upon the defendant -- for whatever reason -- but the case's legal and Constitutional issues are complex, and I predict we very well may see this case become one that could even attract the attention of SCOTUS.
Cases like this one are truly once in a lifetime events. The issues swirling about -- and this forum is one of them -- will raise concerns about emerging technologies and how we view the public's right to see evidence (and I see none: the Sunshine Law was enacted to prevent government abuses) contrasted with a defendant's right to due Process and an untainted jury pool.
If you examine some of the statements made on these forums (I've previously mentioned jury nullification -- please research th term), you can see that this defendant stands a poor chance of obtaining an unbiased jury.
I've already read your posts. Let's just say there is a chance this defendant is innocent -- not just found not-guilty -- of all charges. I'm not saying this is reality, just a proposition. How incredible a miscarriage of justice would it be that she was convicted based upon the media exposure and public opinion formed before the trial was held?
This is the crux of this issue: The media exposure has generated a lynch-mob mentality that undermines the Due Process Clause of the Constitution.
You speak -- like your cohorts -- of how you "feel" about this case and its issues, but this is a legal matter that has been contaminated by "feelings" long before the trier-of-fact has seen the evidence the court has allowed that trier-of-fact to consider.
Our judicial system depends upon impartial juries. Not runaway juries or lynch mobs. Frankly, this is why attorneys and judges distrust juries, and other judicial systems do not allow jury trials in some or all cases.
That said, I somewhat understand your strong feelings, but they have no place in a courtroom until the allowable evidence has been heard.

Ohhh...the drama you bring to these threads...Give up your liberal rhetoric. It's all about the evidence against the Murderer. NOTHING ELSE matters. And...there's a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her.
You definitely watch too much TV. This will be a SLAM DUNK conviction.

Attorney's and judges distrust juries?? Please...I'm about to pizz in my pants...
All of this from a person who keeps changing his name. My, my...we're just sooo impressed.
PS: I just love the once-in-a-lifetime analogy. This is about a 2.5 yr old little girl who was murdered by her slut/mother and the family who did noting but lie, conceal and destroy evidence to protect her. They are all dysfunctional. This isn't an assissination of a leader or a world changing event.
Please seek professional help. You imagination has gotten the best of you yet again.

ALL OF US wrote:

<quoted text>
No your missing the point! This is nothing but a public forum where all people can post their thoughts and feelings!
THIS IS NOT A COURT ROOM, NOR A CLASS ROOM, WE DON'T NEED A GRADE OR CORRECTIONS ON WHAT WE POST! No one comes here to get an education! So no need for TEACHERS .

That's what they are here for! The smug feeling after the post something they think they look intelligent, although they copied 2/3 of it from someone else ! They leave and show back up and posts what they find.

I am going to reply to a few posters who continue to post about ngrace, Chucky Cheese, etc., acting superior in knowledge to everyone else.

I am not fully college educated, although I am currently attending to receive my Bachelor's Degree. Never have any of the poster's on this thread, the one's who originally started it, made me feel like I was not "superior" enough to discuss anything with them.

Typically, the ones who decide to call me names are the same ones who scream that the entire family should rot in h*ell, etc. You know what, I think that is pathetic! But I haven't went to the lengths that some have to undermine others' opinions.

If truth be told, I am unsure which of these intelligent poster's feel as I do and frankly, it's not a concern of mine. Why? Because they have respect for my opinion no matter what my opinion is.

Just wanted to put that out there!

Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Sorry I posted twice. Topix seems very slow and awkward today! ;-)

Kojak wrote:

<quoted text>
Ohhh...the drama you bring to these threads...Give up your liberal rhetoric. It's all about the evidence against the Murderer. NOTHING ELSE matters. And...there's a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her.
You definitely watch too much TV. This will be a SLAM DUNK conviction.
Attorney's and judges distrust juries?? Please...I'm about to pizz in my pants...
All of this from a person who keeps changing his name. My, my...we're just sooo impressed.
PS: I just love the once-in-a-lifetime analogy. This is about a 2.5 yr old little girl who was murdered by her ****/mother and the family who did noting but lie, conceal and destroy evidence to protect her. They are all dysfunctional. This isn't an assissination of a leader or a world changing event.
Please seek professional help. You imagination has gotten the best of you yet again.

I don't know who you think I am, but I am not speaking from a "libera" point of view; I am merely analyzing and discussing the legal ramifications of this case.

Moreover, while many of you may need to look up some of the terms I use, they are the precise legal terms, and they do not lend themsleves to "simple" expanations, however much you might yearn for simplicity.

You speak of things about which you have little or no knowledge, but you are shouting against the wind.

Lastly, although you may not like it, attorneys in general are smarter than the rest of the population. If you don't believe it, try passing the LSAT, law school, and then the Bar. The average attorney has an IQ of 122, which is significantly higher than the average of 100.

If you want to engage in reasoned discourse, by all means, let's discuss this case (or any other). Otherwise, you rants and ravings will fall upon deaf ears.

_Kristi_ wrote:

I am going to reply to a few posters who continue to post about ngrace, Chucky Cheese, etc., acting superior in knowledge to everyone else.
I am not fully college educated, although I am currently attending to receive my Bachelor's Degree. Never have any of the poster's on this thread, the one's who originally started it, made me feel like I was not "superior" enough to discuss anything with them.
Typically, the ones who decide to call me names are the same ones who scream that the entire family should rot in ****, etc. You know what, I think that is pathetic! But I haven't went to the lengths that some have to undermine others' opinions.
If truth be told, I am unsure which of these intelligent poster's feel as I do and frankly, it's not a concern of mine. Why? Because they have respect for my opinion no matter what my opinion is.
Just wanted to put that out there!

Hey Kristi.

ngrace wrote:

Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does."

I don't know why a doe would be any less clever than a buck.:)

_Kristi_ wrote:

Sorry I posted twice. Topix seems very slow and awkward today! ;-)

Don't feel bad, Topix was really acting moronic yesterday.