Real estate: Home appraisers attack new rules

I agee with Tim Burns about the new rtegulations. they have essentially driven me out of the business. Alot of people think the appraisers were at fault for the rapidly rising prices for homes in 2005-2006, but that just isn't true. If you understand how comparable sales are chosen you would realize that most of the time our appraisels were below Market value (what someone is willing to pay for a home, which appraisers have zero control over). Like many govermnment entities that try to fix a problem they are making it worse. I left the business that i enjoyed very much because i was no longer allowed to do my job, to perform the service for which I was well trained. Like it says in the article someone from across the country can judge if the appraiser here chose the right comps. I have lived in central Florida since 1964, I believe i understand what is happening in the neighborhoods better than someone hired out of the state are even from south or north Florida. I just came back from Califronia and picked up some sales fliers for beachfront property just south of Carmel. Curiousity as an appraiser. When I calculated the price per square foot it was obviously higher than what is experienced here. My wife asked if the price was a good one. Without knowing the market how could I know if suffiecient research isn't done about past pricing, market fluctuations. Does one neighborhood hold its value more than another?? These are things that need to be researched and that takes a lot of time and phone calls to help in the evaluation process. Well I have ranted long enough. I hope Tim and the other independent appraisers don't get driven out of the business. They are the ones trying to make sure you get an accurate view of the market and an accurate valuation of the market value of the house!!!!!

When it hits the fan, everyone looks for the scapegoat. The value of a home is exactly what you can get someone to pay for it when you want to sell it. Most of us know we paid too much, but was I forced to sign the mortgage - no !
Now Uncle Sam has put his plans of "protecting the consumer" into action and wonder of wonders the consumer gets hurt ?

New regs are a typical government over-reaction. Now, instead of being part of the solution, they have exacerbated the problem.

I always laugh when I see the statement "How can a Winter Park appraiser travel to Lakeland?"

The last time I checked, the license is "State Certified" not "City Certified"

I am an appraiser located in Maitland and travel to St Pete/Tampa two to three wimes a week. For full disclosure, I have been covering the St Pete/ Tampa areas for ten years. Point being, that even though my report has my address is here locally, it does not dimininsh my knowledge of St Pete/Tampa.

The guys that are complaining about assignments being given to out of area appraisers are just bitter because they have no idea how to reinvent thier business.
Do incompetent people travel to outside ares to appraise homes.......YES. But, here is a news flash for everyone, there are plenty of Orlando appraisers who are staying locally, not traveling out of the area, who are completely incompenent. It comes down to a competancy level.......NOT A DISTANCE ISSUE!!!!!

Mike-Well said.

Talk about an overpaid profession! All these these clowns do is just go to the county property appraiser site and copy those #'s.

These blowhards are so full of themselves too, thinking they need some extensive training for what they do, They are a small step up from a real estate agent and that is not saying much!

Gatortrek wrote:

I agee with Tim Burns about the new rtegulations. they have essentially driven me out of the business. Alot of people think the appraisers were at fault for the rapidly rising prices for homes in 2005-2006, but that just isn't true. If you understand how comparable sales are chosen you would realize that most of the time our appraisels were below Market value (what someone is willing to pay for a home, which appraisers have zero control over). Like many govermnment entities that try to fix a problem they are making it worse. I left the business that i enjoyed very much because i was no longer allowed to do my job, to perform the service for which I was well trained. Like it says in the article someone from across the country can judge if the appraiser here chose the right comps. I have lived in central Florida since 1964, I believe i understand what is happening in the neighborhoods better than someone hired out of the state are even from south or north Florida. I just came back from Califronia and picked up some sales fliers for beachfront property just south of Carmel. Curiousity as an appraiser. When I calculated the price per square foot it was obviously higher than what is experienced here. My wife asked if the price was a good one. Without knowing the market how could I know if suffiecient research isn't done about past pricing, market fluctuations. Does one neighborhood hold its value more than another?? These are things that need to be researched and that takes a lot of time and phone calls to help in the evaluation process. Well I have ranted long enough. I hope Tim and the other independent appraisers don't get driven out of the business. They are the ones trying to make sure you get an accurate view of the market and an accurate valuation of the market value of the house!!!!!

No offense Gator but it was appraisers that allowed values to jump X3 in as many years and that led to the collapse we had. They where not the only guilty partys but they sure played a big part so no offense but i am glad to see a set of standards that must be met. Maybe if we had them then we wouldnt be in this mess now lets see how well the new system works and if needed in the future adjust it but for now we need to put integrity back into the real estate biz.

If any one knows how and why this all started it was because some greedy genius decided on a way to create huge profits to investors on Wall Street. He came up with all the non-qualifying loans. income stated loans, no money down, and all the other scam loans that allowed the American Dream to happen to anyone that wanted a house. This is just the nutshell. It was down right greed on the part of Wall Street and its investors and it involved the Government (Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac). This senerio caused the housing spike and property values to climb to unheard of values in such a short amount of time. As a Realtor I saw the bubble and I also saw the demise of the housing industry 6 months prior to the burst. I warned all my clients and everyone else I knew. I sold off all my investment properties, thank God otherwise I would have been in a soup line and would have lost my home to. This crap that Cuomo has come up with has now cost many very well known and respected appraisers to loose most of their business. To me this is just another one of Obama's tools towards Socialism and Government control. Sooner or later the people have to raise up and just like Iran yank this guy out of office before its to late. Most every one of his policies that he campaigned on he has flip flopped on them and he was elected because of thoses promises. We were dupped big time! Listen to Glenn Beck each day and watch and see for yourself what our Government is doing. Spending our money like its no tomorrow and buying all the companies that make Wall Street successful. Even coverning up creeps like Madoff who should have been busted years ago by the SEC. The guy should hang and the Government should repay all the loses to those the SEC let down. One day the US is going to wake up and say what happened. It's starts with things just like this and ends up with trillion dollar bail out packages. Support the independent appraisers and make your voices heard. The video is 100% true. This ecomony will never get any better until the Government addresses the housing industry because that is what made the economy collapse.

A realtor or mortgage broker can take a weekend course, pass the state test, and begin selling their products immediately. An appraiser takes 120 hours of class and has to apprentice for a minimum of two years and 2,500 hours under a certified appraiser, takes more classes, and then sits for the state certification test. They make less than the above mentioned professions on every job and bear the bulk of the liability in the transaction. A realtor makes 2.5 to 3% and a mortgage broker typically 1%. I was charging $300 to $350 for an appraisal before the government put the current socialist system in place. I too work from Winter Park with a state certified license appraising properties in areas that I am competent to appraise. For $200 an appraisal, when you can even get one, with very short completion times there is a scramble on to survive in this industry. I am not sure that every appraiser has or will take the time to be competent in every assignment in the current times as stated in our operating standards known as USPAP. The HVCC has taken away all of the clients from an entire industry of appraisers that used to be mostly small businesses. These appraisers must now hope that a third party will send them work. These third parties or appraisal management companies may charge what they want for the appraisal while hiring the absolute cheapest appraisers in the area near the assignment. There were and are corrupt appraisers doing appraisals. There have been corrupt policemen, firemen, judges, senators, stock brokers, and attorney generals over the years also. The appraisers did not alter the rules for everyone to qualify for a mortgage or the bills to make sure that all citizens have the chance to be homeowners. The appraisers report what the market is doing-what people are willing to pay for similar properties. When all of you buyers were looking at homes what prices did you see? Did you get the best deal at the time? If others were paying the same for similar properties that is what they were worth at the time. I made some people angry when I couldn't justify a value of the contract price. The mortgage broker was angry, the realtor was angry, and THE BUYER was angry when I told them that the were asked to pay too much! Now that the market has gone down I am a villain because they paid too much? Who can I blame for my Cisco Systems stock that tanked a few years ago? We do not have crystal balls to forecast the markets. Did the government take away all of the stock market clients when the market tanked forcing all investers to pay higher fees to clearing houses to distribute the work? You still get to choose your realtor and mortgage broker. They pumped up the market with buyers and borrowers that normally couldn't afford a home and provided them with interest only or arm mortgages to get the deal closed. By the time that the legalities of the current actions of the HVCC are sorted out the damage will be worse than the original problems. The HVCC was brought about by the Attorney General of New York against an appraisal management company and their coertion with a major lender. The entire industry has now been turned over to the completely unregulated appraisal management industry. Let's follow the big money and see who is involved in the current regulation while a generation of professional appraisers must find other supporting methods of income.

When the broker can call the appraiser and ask them to do better on the comps that is a problem, and that was happening way to often. The honest people would no longer get jobs from the big banks and places like quicken loans or countrywide so it was play the game of go out of business, I have no problem with an independent middleman it keeps everyone honest

RJm wrote:

When the broker can call the appraiser and ask them to do better on the comps that is a problem, and that was happening way to often. The honest people would no longer get jobs from the big banks and places like quicken loans or countrywide so it was play the game of go out of business, I have no problem with an independent middleman it keeps everyone honest

AMEN!

Don't think that the cheapest appraisers hitting the marks are the honest ones and that the system is all above board. I think it will come to light in quite a different way. The management companies are under pressure to please their big clients and the appraisers want to keep getting the handouts so there is a false sense of security in the air. The "National Abuse Hotline" part of HVCC is far from creation and even farther from an overload of calls with all of the scrambling to get work and survive on the low fees. It has been reported that some of the sanctioned appraisers are now owners of management companies. As usual we are probably hearing about the low percentage of bad management companies in the same way that the low percentage of bad appraisers were the ones in the news.

Government Socialism wrote:

If any one knows how and why this all started it was because some greedy genius decided on a way to create huge profits to investors on Wall Street. He came up with all the non-qualifying loans. income stated loans, no money down, and all the other scam loans that allowed the American Dream to happen to anyone that wanted a house. This is just the nutshell. It was down right greed on the part of Wall Street and its investors and it involved the Government (Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac). This senerio caused the housing spike and property values to climb to unheard of values in such a short amount of time. As a Realtor I saw the bubble and I also saw the demise of the housing industry 6 months prior to the burst. I warned all my clients and everyone else I knew. I sold off all my investment properties, thank God otherwise I would have been in a soup line and would have lost my home to. This crap that Cuomo has come up with has now cost many very well known and respected appraisers to loose most of their business. To me this is just another one of Obama's tools towards Socialism and Government control. Sooner or later the people have to raise up and just like Iran yank this guy out of office before its to late. Most every one of his policies that he campaigned on he has flip flopped on them and he was elected because of thoses promises. We were dupped big time! Listen to Glenn Beck each day and watch and see for yourself what our Government is doing. Spending our money like its no tomorrow and buying all the companies that make Wall Street successful. Even coverning up creeps like Madoff who should have been busted years ago by the SEC. The guy should hang and the Government should repay all the loses to those the SEC let down. One day the US is going to wake up and say what happened. It's starts with things just like this and ends up with trillion dollar bail out packages. Support the independent appraisers and make your voices heard. The video is 100% true. This ecomony will never get any better until the Government addresses the housing industry because that is what made the economy collapse.

little fact freddy and fanny only accounted for 24% of the bad loans so your theory is dead wrong lots of your capitalist banks participated.

Appraisers were and always have been overpaid. These guys could make $1200/daily easily back in the day, and that was only on 3-4 appraisals. No wonder they want the rules changed, they actually have to do some work. In order for them to make their money, they will pass it onto someone and unfortunately it is the rest of us.

Everyone appears to missing a big part of the picture. The government instituted a directive started by a New York financial empire to blatently steal (that's right steal) the potential income of thousands of hard working Americans. The Appraisal Industry was a 6 Billion dollar a year industry that was ripe for the picking. Now Cuomo and his ilk can line their pockets further at the expense of American workers.
Any time the government can pass a law that wipes out an individuals business, some of which have been in existance for 25 or more years, it's time to wonder if the government is really for the people or against the people.
Would the last one to leave please bring the flag ?

John Merritt wrote:

Appraisers were and always have been overpaid. These guys could make $1200/daily easily back in the day, and that was only on 3-4 appraisals. No wonder they want the rules changed, they actually have to do some work. In order for them to make their money, they will pass it onto someone and unfortunately it is the rest of us.

If you knew any appraisers that did three or four appraisals a day. You must have known all the unethical appraisers there were. We should just let you clean up the industry.
You sir, are an idiot ! Do you and King Whiteee hang out at the same bar ??

Gatortrek wrote:

I agee with Tim Burns about the new rtegulations. they have essentially driven me out of the business. Alot of people think the appraisers were at fault for the rapidly rising prices for homes in 2005-2006, but that just isn't true. If you understand how comparable sales are chosen you would realize that most of the time our appraisels were below Market value (what someone is willing to pay for a home, which appraisers have zero control over). Like many govermnment entities that try to fix a problem they are making it worse. I left the business that i enjoyed very much because i was no longer allowed to do my job, to perform the service for which I was well trained. Like it says in the article someone from across the country can judge if the appraiser here chose the right comps. I have lived in central Florida since 1964, I believe i understand what is happening in the neighborhoods better than someone hired out of the state are even from south or north Florida. I just came back from Califronia and picked up some sales fliers for beachfront property just south of Carmel. Curiousity as an appraiser. When I calculated the price per square foot it was obviously higher than what is experienced here. My wife asked if the price was a good one. Without knowing the market how could I know if suffiecient research isn't done about past pricing, market fluctuations. Does one neighborhood hold its value more than another?? These are things that need to be researched and that takes a lot of time and phone calls to help in the evaluation process. Well I have ranted long enough. I hope Tim and the other independent appraisers don't get driven out of the business. They are the ones trying to make sure you get an accurate view of the market and an accurate valuation of the market value of the house!!!!!

you did not help the situation!!!!!!

No Doug the guilty parties are the Realtors who talked people into homes they couldn't afford, and lenders, who extended credit to people who couldn't afford to pay it back. If they had done their jobs then we wouldn't have all these foreclosed homes.

doug wrote:

<quoted text>No offense Gator but it was appraisers that allowed values to jump X3 in as many years and that led to the collapse we had. They where not the only guilty partys but they sure played a big part so no offense but i am glad to see a set of standards that must be met. Maybe if we had them then we wouldnt be in this mess now lets see how well the new system works and if needed in the future adjust it but for now we need to put integrity back into the real estate biz.

Realtors, appraisers, bankers ALL WERE CONSPIRING TOGETHER.....CROOKS, every last stinkin' one of 'em. Now their big money glory days are over. Rats !

This regulation has almost singlehandedly wiped out an entire workforce, increased costs to consumers, is killing real estate deals right and left nationally, and allowing the real villains in the whole blow up of the real estate financial market go scott free, the lenders.

Guess who owns most of the large Appraisal Management ompanies..Lenders. They own their own AMC's, so, fees are charges, 40% turn right around and go back to..the lender. Then, due to garbage appraisals, a 2nd appraisal needs to be done...High costs to the consumer.

Ahhh, Washington Mutual and "a large appraisal company" in collusion, thus the new oversight? That "large appraisal company" was E-Appraise It, a First American company.

New reports required to make sure an accurate picture is given of the property in question, Market Conditions, the only source of information required being an MLS..Guess what company provides the information to the MLS's...First American. Can we say "monopoly"?

Fannie May, Freddie Mac, both dirtier than a pig in slop.

More ivory towers, nothing has changed, and lenders are not benefited by disrgarding HVCC. After all, at the end of the day, a lot of those fees are going right back to THEM.